2010 Int'l FA Market

[toonsterwu]

If they spend big money on building a big facility down there, I wonder if that will impact the Cubs approach in LA a tiny bit in regards to going after some of the higher ticket guys (not saying they should or shouldn't, just wonder if that will lead to an impact in approach).

[Guest]

Well, if the Cubs get a state-of-the-art facility, I'm sure they'll be as good as the Mariners, Mets, Rangers and Yankees at hiding top prospects in April and allowing them to surface on July 2 with a signed contract.

[davell]

Well, if the Cubs get a state-of-the-art facility, I'm sure they'll be as good as the Mariners, Mets, Rangers and Yankees at hiding top prospects in April and allowing them to surface on July 2 with a signed contract.

 

How often(if ever) do the July 2nd signees show up in the US immediately and make an appearance in rookie league ball before they turn 17? Does it ever happen?

 

 

As for Toonster's question, I think the Cubs will become a bigger presence down there if they're going to spend that type of money on new facilities. I wouldn't really see the point in going this route if you don't honestly. I'm sure they'l still sign a bunch of lower priced guys too and having better facilities and instruction will certainly help with those guys too, but if you're going to spend lavishly on the new digs, you gotta have some bigtime boom or bust talents using them, to make it work, if you ask me.

[javy knows my name]

Well, if the Cubs get a state-of-the-art facility, I'm sure they'll be as good as the Mariners, Mets, Rangers and Yankees at hiding top prospects in April and allowing them to surface on July 2 with a signed contract.

This is probably true, but I still hate hate hate it

[Guest]

Well, if the Cubs get a state-of-the-art facility, I'm sure they'll be as good as the Mariners, Mets, Rangers and Yankees at hiding top prospects in April and allowing them to surface on July 2 with a signed contract.

This is probably true, but I still hate hate hate it

 

Oh, I agree. And that's the type of stuff we actually know about. Who knows what else is actually happening down there.

[wvcbxl]

If they spend big money on building a big facility down there, I wonder if that will impact the Cubs approach in LA a tiny bit in regards to going after some of the higher ticket guys (not saying they should or shouldn't, just wonder if that will lead to an impact in approach).

 

Even the approach to prospects signed outside of Latin America may have influenced this decision. Some other teams sign very young guys in Europe and Asia and then send them to their DR academies for instruction prior to bringing them to the US for rookie ball. Afaik, the Cubs haven't done that up till now; obviously, such an approach requires adequate facilities in the DR - maybe that's part of the reasoning behind this investment.

[toonsterwu]

Well, our Australian academy is, from what I understand, relatively solid. Could be wrong, but right now, my impression is that it's a fairly solid facility.

 

Someone remind me where the European kids go to again when they sign. I can't think of it right now.

[davell]

Well, our Australian academy is, from what I understand, relatively solid. Could be wrong, but right now, my impression is that it's a fairly solid facility.

 

Someone remind me where the European kids go to again when they sign. I can't think of it right now.

 

 

The Mineo kid we signed this past summer went to the Australian summer league, so that's probably where they'd all go most likely.

[wvcbxl]

Well, our Australian academy is, from what I understand, relatively solid. Could be wrong, but right now, my impression is that it's a fairly solid facility.

 

Someone remind me where the European kids go to again when they sign. I can't think of it right now.

 

 

The Mineo kid we signed this past summer went to the Australian summer league, so that's probably where they'd all go most likely.

 

Depends on the organization.

Of the 17 young Dutchmen (actually, Dutch passport holders - only 4 of them were born in The Netherlands) that signed pro contracts last year, 5 started in the VSL (Mariners and Cardinals), and the rest in the DSL (Red Sox and Mets, mainly)

The lone Belgian signing (Mets) also started in the DSL

[Scotti]

To be fair, a large number of these have signed in the past couple of years, so we can't really judge their success, but of that group only J. Montero seems to possess a particularly high probability of success at MLB level.

 

Not only did the vast majority of them sign in the past couple of years, they were nearly all around 16 or 17 years old when they signed. It's way too early to judge the impact of those signings. Most of those kids are still 21 or younger.

 

Not vast majority. 14 of those players were signed 2007 or before and that has given them 3 or more seasons to demonstrate something at some level. And even some of the kids signed in 2008 are facing a miracle turnaround to make anything of their careers (much less become successful MLB players). Alvaro Aristy, Roberto De La Cruz, Jharmidy De Jesus and Juan Duran (all 2008 signings and each given first-round money) all need to resurrect their careers really soon.

 

Cub fans get down on guys like Harvey, Pawelek, etc. but those guys were at least gave the Cubs some production.

 

The excuse that these guys all signed young, well, the Cubs sign guys at 16 and 17 for 50-200k all the time and they put up good numbers in their first couple years at the same age (guys like Castro, Lake, Alcantra, Antigua, etc.). For what it's worth, the Cubs Korean kids are signed at 17 and they do far better in their first couple seasons than these much higher priced Latin kids do on the whole. Age is no excuse.

 

When it comes to high priced Latin players the cake is a lie. You can get just as many, if not more, top Latin prospects by scouting well and not getting into bonus wars. The reasons are many but the big reason is that top Latin kids hardly ever play baseball. They run with running coaches, field with fielding coaches, throw with throwing coaches and hit with hitting coaches but they don't play. When the "winning" bidder finally gets them on the field these kids wash out far more than they used to. Gone are the days when Latin kids play all day long. Well, at least the top ones don't. They're too busy beefing up and trying to beef up their bonuses.

 

And all of this throwing and running does nothing to lift their ceilings. It just brings them closer to it. There was a time when a kid down there throwing in the high eighties could be projected to throw harder once you fed him and got him into a program. Now the top guys are all fed (and some are fed steroids) and all in strength programs so they have less room to grow--they are nearer their peaks.

 

The Asian kids? They play all of the time. In fact, they have to get used to playing LESS as pros. As such, they know how to play and they play well.

[Scotti]

Well, if the Cubs get a state-of-the-art facility, I'm sure they'll be as good as the Mariners, Mets, Rangers and Yankees at hiding top prospects in April and allowing them to surface on July 2 with a signed contract.

 

How often(if ever) do the July 2nd signees show up in the US immediately and make an appearance in rookie league ball before they turn 17? Does it ever happen?

 

 

As for Toonster's question, I think the Cubs will become a bigger presence down there if they're going to spend that type of money on new facilities. I wouldn't really see the point in going this route if you don't honestly. I'm sure they'l still sign a bunch of lower priced guys too and having better facilities and instruction will certainly help with those guys too, but if you're going to spend lavishly on the new digs, you gotta have some bigtime boom or bust talents using them, to make it work, if you ask me.

 

I see them doing the opposite. Their facility is planned to be one where they teach the kids and give them life skills in case they don't make it as pros. There's little advantage to doing that with 1M type guys (especially if they bypass the DSL). That type of facility is, however, perfect for the type of signings that they have been getting. Some kid signs for 25-200K. Teach him baseball, English, how to study and plumbing (or whatever) in case the baseball thing doesn't work out.

[Outshined_One]

http://www.csnchicago.com/02/08/11/Kaplan-Ricketts-aiming-to-buy-land-in-Do/kapman_article.html?blockID=406647&feedID=661

 

Looks like they're going to spend some serious money on a new facility down there.

 

I'm guessing this is partly in response to that Tim Magazine article from a few months ago.

 

Not all academies, however, resemble the Ritz. At the Cubs academy one hazy afternoon, 10 prospects piled into a room that, at best, could comfortably fit two or three. There were four bunk beds crammed into the space; two kids napped while sharing a mattress on the floor. Several players said they all lived in that room. I snapped a picture of the scene and showed it to Sandy Alderson, the veteran baseball executive who was tapped by MLB commissioner Bud Selig earlier this year to clean up the sport in the D.R. He said the conditions were "not acceptable," though he later insisted that not all 10 prospects actually lived in that room and that players sometimes sleep on the floor because it's cooler. Still, he stood by his "unacceptable" assessment. It's difficult to disagree with a Dominican man who also saw the scene. "It looked like f______ county lockup," he said.

[Scotti]

http://www.csnchicago.com/02/08/11/Kaplan-Ricketts-aiming-to-buy-land-in-Do/kapman_article.html?blockID=406647&feedID=661

 

Looks like they're going to spend some serious money on a new facility down there.

 

I'm guessing this is partly in response to that Tim Magazine article from a few months ago.

 

Not all academies, however, resemble the Ritz. At the Cubs academy one hazy afternoon, 10 prospects piled into a room that, at best, could comfortably fit two or three. There were four bunk beds crammed into the space; two kids napped while sharing a mattress on the floor. Several players said they all lived in that room. I snapped a picture of the scene and showed it to Sandy Alderson, the veteran baseball executive who was tapped by MLB commissioner Bud Selig earlier this year to clean up the sport in the D.R. He said the conditions were "not acceptable," though he later insisted that not all 10 prospects actually lived in that room and that players sometimes sleep on the floor because it's cooler. Still, he stood by his "unacceptable" assessment. It's difficult to disagree with a Dominican man who also saw the scene. "It looked like [expletive] county lockup," he said.

 

My guess is that the Time article may have accelerated the process but that they were headed in this direction any way.

[fromthestretch]

To be fair, a large number of these have signed in the past couple of years, so we can't really judge their success, but of that group only J. Montero seems to possess a particularly high probability of success at MLB level.

 

Not only did the vast majority of them sign in the past couple of years, they were nearly all around 16 or 17 years old when they signed. It's way too early to judge the impact of those signings. Most of those kids are still 21 or younger.

 

Not vast majority. 14 of those players were signed 2007 or before and that has given them 3 or more seasons to demonstrate something at some level.

 

I'm not going to argue the rest of your post, but of the 31 players he listed (i'm referring to the first list in his post), 20 were signed in 2007 or later. All 20 of them were 17 or under when signed. Most were 16.

[Guest]

Scotti's posts do detail some of the major problems with scouting these Latin American prospects. So many of the hitters never get into live-game action and only do BP. It's a farce.

[davell]

There's been quite a few Dominican signings over the last week or so. Nothing more than 400,000 or so and most have been of the 100,000 variety, but it'd be nice to see the Cubs announce a couple of these.

[davell]

According to BA, we signed these 2 guys, SS and 3B respectively last year as 16 year olds to 550,000 and 500,000 bonuses. They ranked 19th and 20th in INT FA July 2nd bonuses. Daniel Sanchez, who was signed to a "mid six figure bonus" evidently got less than 500,000.

 

That said, it's very cool to see the Cubs made more of a splash last year than what we thought originally.

[davell]

By the way, officially, Jin Yeoung Kim got 850,000. I think we originally were thinking he got 1.2ish mill or so.

[Guest]

Merged with the int'l FA thread. The Cubs spent the 7th most on international amateurs in 2010 at $4.16 million. That figure doesn't count the trio of Cuban defectors. I've edited the following list to the OP.

 

6-figure Bonus signees:

 

RHP Kim Jin-Yeong (South Korea) - $850,000 bonus - age 18

SS Carlos Penalver (Venezuela) - $550,000 bonus - age 16

3B Jeimer Candelario (Dominican Republic) - $500,000 bonus - age 17

OF Jeffrey Baez (Venezuela) - $350,000 bonus - age 17

SS Francisco (Daniel) Sanchez (Dominican Republic) - $350,000 bonus - age 17

LHP Angel Mejias (Venezuela) - age 17

C Alberto Mineo (Italy) - $225,000 bonus - age 16

RHP Alexander Santana (Dominican Republic) - age 17

SS Antonio Gonzalez (Dominican Republic)

RHP Gilberto Abreu (Dominican Republic) - age 17 - pre-July 2 signee

 

OF Rubi Silva (Cuba) - $1 million bonus - age 21

C Yaniel Cabeza (Cuba) - $500,000 bonus - age 21

RHP Juan Yasser Serrano (Cuba) - $250,000 bonus - age 21

[Guest]

BA:

 

The Cubs continued to show that they blanket the world as well as any team in baseball, spending heavily in Latin America, Asia and Europe while dipping into the Cuban market.

 

Review of all the 6-figure bonus signees: http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/prospects/international-affairs/2011/2611341.html

 

Some good info in that link, I figured it was too much to post the whole thing. I'm pretty sure it's not premium content.

[Guest]

It's asking me for a login, so it seems to be Subscriber only.

[Guest]

Oh, ok. Here are some tidbits:

 

Kim, 18, is 6-foot, 185 pounds and stands out with his feel for pitching and control of a solid four-pitch mix. Kim's arm works well and he has good body control, which enables him to repeat his mechanics and throw strikes well for his age. He commands his fastball well to both sides of the plate, sitting at 87-89 mph with some sink and touching 91. He throws two breaking balls, a curveball with late downer action and a solid slider that he made strides with last year. He also shows advanced feel for a changeup.

 

A 16-year-old righthanded hitter, Penalver has an athletic 6-foot, 170-pound frame with good hands, body control and footwork. He's an above-average runner with good instincts and should stick at shortstop. Penalver's medium frame doesn't project for power, but he has good bat speed and the ability to control the barrel with a line-drive stroke.

 

A thickly-built 6-foot, 185 pounds, Candelario is a switch-hitter who stands out with his potential to hit for average and power. Candelario has some movement in his setup but he generates power with good present strength—particularly in his hands—bat speed and advanced feel at the plate. Candelario is a below-average runner and his defense is behind his bat, but he does have a strong arm at third.

 

Baez, 17, is a 6-foot, 170-pound righthanded hitter with athleticism, speed and a long-levered, projectable body. He's a plus-plus runner who could slow down as he fills out, but he has the present speed to play center field, good body control and an average arm. Baez's bat is still coming along but he has projectable power.

 

A 17-year-old Dominican shortstop, Sanchez is a 6-foot-2, 170-pound righthanded hitter with a high-waisted frame and offensive upside. Sanchez has strong hands and an easy, loose swing with power. A fringe-average runner, Sanchez might have to move off shortstop but has the above-average arm to handle a move to third.

 

Mejias has a lot of int'l experience with Venezuelan youth national teams:

Mejias has good arm speed and sits in the mid-to-high 80s with some sink to his fastball, topping out at 90 mph. He's shown some feel for an inconsistent curveball with good bite and rotation, though he's had mixed results in the international tournaments in which he's participated.

 

At 6-foot-2, 180 pounds, Santana has a large, projectable frame. His arm works well and he gets good extension out front on his 87-91 mph fastball with above-average sink and a good curveball for his age.

 

Gonzalez doesn't have flashy tools but he has good baseball instincts and is solid in the field. He has good hands, quick feet and should stick at either shortstop or second base. Gonzalez will never be a power hitter but he has a decent bat and a contact-oriented stroke.

 

Mineo is likely to stay at the European Academy in 2011 and come over to the US in 2012:

A lefthanded hitter, Mineo is 5-foot-11, 165 pounds and stands out for his catch-and-throw skills. His strong hands and forearms help his receiving and he has good defensive instincts. Mineo doesn't project as a power hitter and he's still ironing out his mechanics at the plate, but he has the makings of solid, flat swing.

 

At 17, Abreu has good arm action and an 87-91 mph fastball that could be a plus pitch once he fills out his projectable body. He's still learning to throw strikes, though, after recording twice as many walks (28) as strikeouts (14) in 27 innings last year in the Dominican Summer League.

 

You've already seen info on the Cuban defectors and there's nothing really new on them.

[craig]

Merged with the int'l FA thread. The Cubs spent the 7th most on international amateurs in 2010 at $4.16 million. That figure doesn't count the trio of Cuban defectors. ....

OF Rubi Silva (Cuba) - $1 million bonus - age 21

C Yaniel Cabeza (Cuba) - $500,000 bonus - age 21

RHP Juan Yasser Serrano (Cuba) - $250,000 bonus - age 21

 

So $4.16 + $1.75 = $5.91.

 

I'd think if $4.16 is already 7th, than another $1.75 would pass some more and would put us in the top four or so. Awfully nice to see.

 

Thanks a ton for your info, links, price tabulations, and scouting capsules.

 

Really, really encouraging.

 

The combo of thirteen six-figure international signees, all but the two Cubans being young teenagers, in addition to how many teenage overslot guys we picked up in the draft, suddenly the Cubs farm system has a volume of young teenage talent like I can't ever remember.

 

Often with a lot of these $150-500 guys, they don't work out. But there would seem to be a lot of kids who might have a chance.

[davell]

I think Silva and Cabeza count towards the 2011 budget personally, as both were signed after the season was over and possibly even during this calendar year.

 

That said, I love to see these signings leak out, as we spent alot more than what I was originally thinking we had. I also love the fact that we took the quantity approach over signing one or two big names, as we've got just as much of a shot at hitting the lottery as a team that spent big on one or two guys, if you ask me.

 

Don't get me wrong though, I'd love to see us add a big name or two and sprinkle some of these guys in as well. Especially with Wilken saying we had an increased budget this year for each the draft and INT FA.

 

But, as much as I've harped on this, I gotta hand it to the Cubs and Ricketts so far, they're doing what they've said they would do at this point as far as spending on youngsters goes. It looks much better now than it did a couple of months ago. Very happy with the commitment and hope it continues in a huge way.

[Guest]

Silva and Cabeza signed in December.