Re: 2009-10 Chicago Bulls Thread

[SpongeWorthy]

Am I crazy for preferring DinoBosh over Wade? I love Wade and I usually would throw concepts like roster fit out the door when getting a player of his caliber...but I don't think he works as well next to Rose as Bosh does. They're just too similar. It seems like when you get a too many similar guys you end up like the Warriors--all tweener forwards and combo guards.If you moved Deng for a big and got a cheap sharpshooter I'd totally be on board with it.

 

Plus he's younger and doesn't have a history of injuries like Wade...bigs tend to be more effective for longer.

 

Obviously, I would prefer Wade than the 2010 equivalent of Eddie Robinson or Ron Mercer.

[Sammy Sofa]

I'd rather have Bosh than Wade. Wade is obviously amazing, but Bosh is a much better fit for what this team needs.

[RedFlash]

mike aller is having a heart attack.

 

but chicago has to be so much more attractive than any of those other places. NY is a marked step back, NJ more so. chicago has rose and a big man that does all the dirty work and requires exactly zero touches.

 

 

Yeah but NY is NY. There are numerous non basketball variables that would draw LeBron there over Chicago.

 

Winning trumps over any and all "non basketball variables" that NY can provide. Lebron wants to win, first and foremost, and NY has shown no improvement and if they can't showed the improvement or show Lebron that they can win then NY becomes no better destination the Memphis. And quite frankly NY has become an overrated destination for stars. NY might be able to land a Chris Bosh or Amar'e Stoudemire, but right now I really doubt they can land Lebron James. Lebron wants to win and he wants to play with players who can help him win, and NY cannot offer either.

[SpongeWorthy]

mike aller is having a heart attack.

 

but chicago has to be so much more attractive than any of those other places. NY is a marked step back, NJ more so. chicago has rose and a big man that does all the dirty work and requires exactly zero touches.

 

 

Yeah but NY is NY. There are numerous non basketball variables that would draw LeBron there over Chicago.

 

Winning trumps over any and all "non basketball variables" that NY can provide. Lebron wants to win, first and foremost, and NY has shown no improvement and if they can't showed the improvement or show Lebron that they can win then NY becomes no better destination the Memphis. And quite frankly NY has become an overrated destination for stars. NY might be able to land a Chris Bosh or Amar'e Stoudemire, but right now I really doubt they can land Lebron James. Lebron wants to win and he wants to play with players who can help him win, and NY cannot offer either.

 

First, New York has shown improvement since they bottomed out at the end of the Isiah Thomas era. They've got a good coach and a proven front office man (although they whiffed in the last draft) and most importantly there's no more Thomas poisoning the well. And I'm not sure on their cap situation but I think they've got some big deals coming off the books in a couple years.

 

Secondly, anywhere Lebron is going to be a winner--even New Jersey. You put him on the Knicks and they're a 50+ win team easily and a move or two away from being a title contender. I agree he'd be closer to winning a championship in Chicago, Miami, Cleveland, or even the Rockets or Clippers but there's no real reason he can't win wherever. Any team he goes to is 90% of the way there to being a contender.

 

Now I do think New Jersey might be so awful that they're out of the running but I wouldn't say that for the Knicks. And I certainly wouldn't say that the Knicks are SO BAD that it totally cancels out how attractive playing there might be to him.

 

It's a ridiculous thing to say but if winning were so important he'd just sign for the MLE with the Lakers or something. Clearly there are other factors at play.

[Sammy Sofa]

LeBron and Wade will both be on the Knicks in 2 years. PRINT IT.

[RedFlash]

LeBron and Wade will both be on the Knicks in 2 years. PRINT IT.

 

Just like "Dewey defeats Truman."

[SpongeWorthy]

wtf, apparently Jonathan Bender is playing for the Knicks these days. First time in the NBA since 05-06.

[Sammy Sofa]

LeBron and Wade will both be on the Knicks in 2 years. PRINT IT.

 

Just like "Dewey defeats Truman."

 

Bookmark this page, suckah.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Though if either ended up on the Bulls being wrong would be glorious.

[RedFlash]

mike aller is having a heart attack.

 

but chicago has to be so much more attractive than any of those other places. NY is a marked step back, NJ more so. chicago has rose and a big man that does all the dirty work and requires exactly zero touches.

 

 

Yeah but NY is NY. There are numerous non basketball variables that would draw LeBron there over Chicago.

 

Winning trumps over any and all "non basketball variables" that NY can provide. Lebron wants to win, first and foremost, and NY has shown no improvement and if they can't showed the improvement or show Lebron that they can win then NY becomes no better destination the Memphis. And quite frankly NY has become an overrated destination for stars. NY might be able to land a Chris Bosh or Amar'e Stoudemire, but right now I really doubt they can land Lebron James. Lebron wants to win and he wants to play with players who can help him win, and NY cannot offer either.

 

First, New York has shown improvement since they bottomed out at the end of the Isiah Thomas era. They've got a good coach and a proven front office man (although they whiffed in the last draft) and most importantly there's no more Thomas poisoning the well. And I'm not sure on their cap situation but I think they've got some big deals coming off the books in a couple years.

 

Secondly, anywhere Lebron is going to be a winner--even New Jersey. You put him on the Knicks and they're a 50+ win team easily and a move or two away from being a title contender. I agree he'd be closer to winning a championship in Chicago, Miami, Cleveland, or even the Rockets or Clippers but there's no real reason he can't win wherever. Any team he goes to is 90% of the way there to being a contender.

 

Now I do think New Jersey might be so awful that they're out of the running but I wouldn't say that for the Knicks. And I certainly wouldn't say that the Knicks are SO BAD that it totally cancels out how attractive playing there might be to him.

 

It's a ridiculous thing to say but if winning were so important he'd just sign for the MLE with the Lakers or something. Clearly there are other factors at play.

 

NY isn't the "premier" place for stars as it used to be. NY needs Lebron James, Dwayne Wade, etc, etc more then those players need NY. Players do not need NY to sell themselves. So why do people still hold NY that high in terms of endorsements, I do not know. I still believe if NY cannot show they are better now or have the potential to be better, then James isn't going to waste his career is a piss poor city like New York. I think the Bulls have a better chance at landing LBJ (not saying they will) because they have Rose and Noah, and NY does not have any player (most likely going to have to let Lee go to even have a shot at landing LBJ) that can match either player.

 

Personally, I think NY will be 4th on his (LBJ) pecking order behind Cleveland, Chicago, and New Jersey (in no particular order).

[Andy]

When was NY ever the premier destination for stars? Honestly, when was the last time the Knicks signed a free agent that a bunch of other teams wanted? I think this NY thing is colossally overblown.

[illiniguy]

wtf, apparently Jonathan Bender is playing for the Knicks these days. First time in the NBA since 05-06.

Wow, I knew he was trying to comeback this past offseason, didn't know it happened. I also didn't realize White Chocolate was back into the league until I saw him on Christmas.

[Sammy Sofa]

When was NY ever the premier destination for stars? Honestly, when was the last time the Knicks signed a free agent that a bunch of other teams wanted? I think this NY thing is colossally overblown.

 

That's arguably the appeal for someone like LeBron. If he can go there and get that team winning and get someone like Wade to show up, boom, that's bigger than he could ever get on any of the other teams out there. Despite the Knicks' crappiness, NYC is still NYC and the Knicks rule that town when they're good.

[RedFlash]

When was NY ever the premier destination for stars? Honestly, when was the last time the Knicks signed a free agent that a bunch of other teams wanted? I think this NY thing is colossally overblown.

 

That's arguably the appeal for someone like LeBron. If he can go there and get that team winning and get son meone like Wade to show up, boom, that's bigger than he could ever get on any of the other teams out there. Despite the Knicks' crappiness, NYC is still NYC and the Knicks rule that town when they're good.

 

The problem with this theory is that Lebron doesn't need NY to get endorsements, nor does he want to go to a team like the Knicks and it be the Lebron and four stiffs. Let's face facts, they have a bunch of stiffs and maybe one or two players with interesting potential. But for that potential, there is not a player on the team that is good enough to make Lebron go, "Oh, boy, I want to play with him and we can win together." The Bulls could at least say they have Rose, Noah, and Deng, or NJ with Harris, and Lopez.

 

As for Wade, that combo will happen either in Cleveland (via SnT)or Miami, not NY. If Lebron goes to NY, then Wade will either stay in Miami (most likely) or go to Chicago (don't count it out).

 

Either way, I agree with Andy and think the NY angle is way overplayed.

[David]

When was NY ever the premier destination for stars? Honestly, when was the last time the Knicks signed a free agent that a bunch of other teams wanted? I think this NY thing is colossally overblown.

 

That's arguably the appeal for someone like LeBron. If he can go there and get that team winning and get someone like Wade to show up, boom, that's bigger than he could ever get on any of the other teams out there. Despite the Knicks' crappiness, NYC is still NYC and the Knicks rule that town when they're good.

 

 

Why would it be in two years and how would Wade show up after LeBron got the team winning? He's a free agent this year. I don't even think they could sign two max guys this offseason, but I could be wrong on that.

 

Either way, I don't see it as likely at all that Wade would leave Miami for NY. Chicago? Maybe, but still probably not.

[Sammy Sofa]

Who said anything about endorsements? This would hardly only be about that. The "NYC thing" goes well beyond endorsements. There's simply no other city where an NBA player could go and be that huge if the team is winning. It's easy to forget because they've been crappy for a while, but the Knicks are gingantic in NYC, and that's by far the biggest market out there. There's nothing else like that out there. Plus him going there as they stand right now would be somewhat similar to the pseduo-myth of Jordan going to the Bulls and making that team his and turning it into the force that it was. If LeBron goes to the Knicks and they become contenders again the general perception will be that it was his team and those were his wins. Yeah, that could be the case in Cleveland, too, but then it comes down to Cleveland vs. NYC and which team is in the better position to give him what he wants. Cleveland is obviously further along as a team but seem to be at a breaking point in terms of what they can add to put them over the top. NY has a huge pile of money to spend.

 

I just don't think you can underestimate ego in all of this. If he wins with NY, that's all him. That's his team, his championship, his legacy, his city. Again, same thing in Cleveland, but again, it's also just Cleveland. If he goes to Miami then he's just joining a regularly competing team that's already Wade's team. And it was Shaq's team just a few years ago. The Knicks would be all his on every level even if someone like Wade joins him there because it's like Wade came to him and not vice-versa.

 

And do not underestimate how much money the Knicks have to spend. Yeah, they've only got a few decent players right now, but they could very easily buy themselves a contending team even after signing LeBron. LeBron + NY (both because it's NYC and because they have an assload of money) = instant draw.

[RedFlash]

Who said anything about endorsements? This would hardly only be about that. The "NYC thing" goes well beyond endorsements. There's simply no other city where an NBA player could go and be that huge if the team is winning. It's easy to forget because they've been crappy for a while, but the Knicks are gingantic in NYC, and that's by far the biggest market out there. There's nothing else like that out there. Plus him going there as they stand right now would be somewhat similar to the pseduo-myth of Jordan going to the Bulls and making that team his and turning it into the force that it was. If LeBron goes to the Knicks and they become contenders again the general perception will be that it was his team and those were his wins. Yeah, that could be the case in Cleveland, too, but then it comes down to Cleveland vs. NYC and which team is in the better position to give him what he wants. Cleveland is obviously further along as a team but seem to be at a breaking point in terms of what they can add to put them over the top. NY has a huge pile of money to spend.

 

I just don't think you can underestimate ego in all of this. If he wins with NY, that's all him. That's his team, his championship, his legacy, his city. Again, same thing in Cleveland, but again, it's also just Cleveland. If he goes to Miami then he's just joining a regularly competing team that's already Wade's team. And it was Shaq's team just a few years ago. The Knicks would be all his on every level even if someone like Wade joins him there because it's like Wade came to him and not vice-versa.

 

And do not underestimate how much money the Knicks have to spend. Yeah, they've only got a few decent players right now, but they could very easily buy themselves a contending team even after signing LeBron. LeBron + NY (both because it's NYC and because they have an assload of money) = instant draw.

 

The Yankees control that town, no matter what LBJ does. Nonetheless, I do not see LBJ going to NY.

[SpongeWorthy]

People on RealGM are talking about Kirk + filler (maybe TT or Salmons in there) for Ray Allen and his huge, expiring deal. Apparently the Celtics want to move Allen.

 

That would be a coup. We'd remain competitive this year with Allen replacing Kirk and we'd get way under the cap as well.

[Sammy Sofa]

When was NY ever the premier destination for stars? Honestly, when was the last time the Knicks signed a free agent that a bunch of other teams wanted? I think this NY thing is colossally overblown.

 

That's arguably the appeal for someone like LeBron. If he can go there and get that team winning and get someone like Wade to show up, boom, that's bigger than he could ever get on any of the other teams out there. Despite the Knicks' crappiness, NYC is still NYC and the Knicks rule that town when they're good.

 

 

Why would it be in two years and how would Wade show up after LeBron got the team winning? He's a free agent this year. I don't even think they could sign two max guys this offseason, but I could be wrong on that.

 

Either way, I don't see it as likely at all that Wade would leave Miami for NY. Chicago? Maybe, but still probably not.

 

Wade is free after this year if he opts out. He has a fourth year player option after this season. My guess is that he does not opt out after this season and becomes a FA after next year. I'm basing that mostly on the idea that he might want to test the FA market when it isn't as relatively crowded as it will be this summer.

[jersey cubs fan]

It's easy to forget because they've been crappy for a while, but the Knicks are gingantic in NYC, and that's by far the biggest market out there.

 

I was in NY when the Knicks were last good, but I would not say they owned the town. They were no bigger than the Rangers who won the cup. If the Knicks win 4 titles then maybe they will "own" this town, but there's too much competing interest for any one team to monopolize everything. The Knicks might not have a Mets team to counteract their power like the Yankees, but there is competing interest in winter sports, and by the time the NBA finals comes along, there's baseball.

[Sammy Sofa]

The Yankees control that town, no matter what LBJ does.

 

I respectfully disagree. They do right now because they're the best team in the city, but when the Knicks are actually decent they top everyone. Probably because unlike football and baseball there's really nobody else competing with them for NYC fans (and anyone who says the Nets do really isn't taking this seriously).

[SpongeWorthy]

When the Knicks were last good they played a horrificly boring brand of thug ball that nearly destroyed the league and necessitated major rule changes. Lebron would be the biggest star in New York since Mantle.

[jersey cubs fan]

The Yankees control that town, no matter what LBJ does.

 

I respectfully disagree. They do right now because they're the best team in the city, but when the Knicks are actually decent they top everyone. Probably because unlike football and baseball there's really nobody else competing with them for NYC fans (and anyone who says the Nets do really isn't taking this seriously).

 

I believe you are wrong.

 

And if the Nets move to brooklyn, that would at least provide a Mets-like competition.

 

No team owns this town like the Bears are capable of owning Chicago.

[Sammy Sofa]

It's easy to forget because they've been crappy for a while, but the Knicks are gingantic in NYC, and that's by far the biggest market out there.

 

I was in NY when the Knicks were last good, but I would not say they owned the town. They were no bigger than the Rangers who won the cup.

 

Well, yeah, because they had just won the Cup and the Knicks hadn't won a championship. Whatever team wins the championship will be the biggest there when it happens.

[jersey cubs fan]

It's easy to forget because they've been crappy for a while, but the Knicks are gingantic in NYC, and that's by far the biggest market out there.

 

I was in NY when the Knicks were last good, but I would not say they owned the town. They were no bigger than the Rangers who won the cup.

 

Well, yeah, because they had just won the Cup and the Knicks hadn't won a championship. Whatever team wins the championship will be the biggest there when it happens.

 

until a year goes by when they don't win it

[Sammy Sofa]

I believe you are wrong.

 

And if the Nets move to brooklyn, that would at least provide a Mets-like competition.

 

If they move while a LeBron-lead team is kicking ass there already it'll be a while before they provide anything. The nature of the Mets's fanbase was rooted out of the neighborhood mentality that dictated NYC baseball fandom for so long. It's not like that with basketball. It's not like the Knicks are the team of a certain part of NYC: they're just NYC's team.

 

No team owns this town like the Bears are capable of owning Chicago.

 

Obviously, but I wasn't saying that the Knicks trumped all other teams in all the other sports when it comes to fan loyalty.