Cubs fire Von Joshua

[Guest]

I'd be ok firing Joshua if the end result is getting Jaramillo from Texas.

 

When the current GM has already fired two of the most respected batting coaches in the business within just a few months of each other, who can you realistically expect Hendry to hire next?

 

You are dreaming if you think Jaramillo would come here so that he can be the next person Hendry blames for his own shortcomings.

[CUBZ99]

Seriously, this is almost as bad as the, "don't fire Dusty we had back to back .500 seasons for the first time in 30 years" BS.

 

Hendry has had the team in the playoffs 2 of the last 3 years, with teams that could have won the WS. I think it is a refreshing change, when everyone is sitting around lamenting about not making it into the playoffs like we are expecting it every year. And if you don't think the Cubs could do worse than Hendry at GM, just read any article that is pining for the new ownership to hire Steve Stone.

[CUBZ99]

I'd be ok firing Joshua if the end result is getting Jaramillo from Texas.

 

When the current GM has already fired two of the most respected batting coaches in the business within just a few months of each other, who can you realistically expect Hendry to hire next?

 

You are dreaming if you think Jaramillo would come here so that he can be the next person Hendry blames for his own shortcomings.

 

Since when did Von Joshua become one of the most respected hitting coaches in the game? People weren't exactly lining up to hire him while he spent the last several years in the Cubs minor league system. This whole Von Joshua uproar is getting out of control.

[Tarver]

Seriously, this is almost as bad as the, "don't fire Dusty we had back to back .500 seasons for the first time in 30 years" BS.

 

Hendry has had the team in the playoffs 2 of the last 3 years, with teams that could have won the WS. I think it is a refreshing change, when everyone is sitting around lamenting about not making it into the playoffs like we are expecting it every year. And if you don't think the Cubs could do worse than Hendry at GM, just read any article that is pining for the new ownership to hire Steve Stone.

 

The club's history isn't relevant. Fans should expect this team to be in the playoffs every year.

[17 Seconds]

I'd be ok firing Joshua if the end result is getting Jaramillo from Texas.

 

When the current GM has already fired two of the most respected batting coaches in the business within just a few months of each other, who can you realistically expect Hendry to hire next?

 

You are dreaming if you think Jaramillo would come here so that he can be the next person Hendry blames for his own shortcomings.

 

Since when did Von Joshua become one of the most respected hitting coaches in the game? People weren't exactly lining up to hire him while he spent the last several years in the Cubs minor league system. This whole Von Joshua uproar is getting out of control.

 

Von Joshua has been very highly regarded for quite a while now.

[jersey cubs fan]

Seriously, this is almost as bad as the, "don't fire Dusty we had back to back .500 seasons for the first time in 30 years" BS.

 

Hendry has had the team in the playoffs 2 of the last 3 years, with teams that could have won the WS. I think it is a refreshing change, when everyone is sitting around lamenting about not making it into the playoffs like we are expecting it every year. And if you don't think the Cubs could do worse than Hendry at GM, just read any article that is pining for the new ownership to hire Steve Stone.

 

The club's history isn't relevant. Fans should expect this team to be in the playoffs every year.

 

And Hendry hasn't been GM for just 3 years, he's been there since 2002 and has been a major decision maker long before that. He's had his time and he's allowed this team to be a disappointment far too often. A couple division crowns in a weak division is nothing to hang your hat on. The Hendry era Cubs have barely outpaced the Florida Marlins during the same timeframe, and with many more resources at his disposal.

[Sammy Sofa]

No one has directly, but all this "we could do worse" business certainly implies it.

 

No, it doesn't. I'm not opposed at all to firing Hendry; I just recognize the odds that his replacement will be better aren't very good. That doesn't mean I want Hendry to stick around...I'm just not getting worked up over his replacement until they prove they're not part of the usual parade of crap that is the average MLB GM.

[jersey cubs fan]

I'd be ok firing Joshua if the end result is getting Jaramillo from Texas.

 

When the current GM has already fired two of the most respected batting coaches in the business within just a few months of each other, who can you realistically expect Hendry to hire next?

 

You are dreaming if you think Jaramillo would come here so that he can be the next person Hendry blames for his own shortcomings.

 

Since when did Von Joshua become one of the most respected hitting coaches in the game? People weren't exactly lining up to hire him while he spent the last several years in the Cubs minor league system. This whole Von Joshua uproar is getting out of control.

 

Von Joshua has been very highly regarded for quite a while now.

 

People keep saying that, but he's been a minor league coach for several seasons and he's in his 60's. How highly regarded could he possibly be? Everybody who stays around long enough in baseball is a good baseball guy, but if Von Joshua was only able to get a job as the Cubs AAA hitting coach, he can't be that much in demand.

[Tarver]

No one has directly, but all this "we could do worse" business certainly implies it.

 

No, it doesn't. I'm not opposed at all to firing Hendry; I just recognize the odds that his replacement will be better aren't very good. That doesn't mean I want Hendry to stick around...I'm just not getting worked up over his replacement until they prove they're not part of the usual parade of crap that is the average MLB GM.

 

When was the last time an owner telegraphed a GM replacement before first firing the existing one? The Jocketty situation is the only one I can remember.

[SouthSideRyan]

I'd be ok firing Joshua if the end result is getting Jaramillo from Texas.

 

When the current GM has already fired two of the most respected batting coaches in the business within just a few months of each other, who can you realistically expect Hendry to hire next?

 

You are dreaming if you think Jaramillo would come here so that he can be the next person Hendry blames for his own shortcomings.

 

Since when did Von Joshua become one of the most respected hitting coaches in the game? People weren't exactly lining up to hire him while he spent the last several years in the Cubs minor league system. This whole Von Joshua uproar is getting out of control.

 

Von Joshua has been very highly regarded for quite a while now.

 

People keep saying that, but he's been a minor league coach for several seasons and he's in his 60's. How highly regarded could he possibly be? Everybody who stays around long enough in baseball is a good baseball guy, but if Von Joshua was only able to get a job as the Cubs AAA hitting coach, he can't be that much in demand.

 

Maybe he was comfortable.

[Sammy Sofa]

No one has directly, but all this "we could do worse" business certainly implies it.

 

No, it doesn't. I'm not opposed at all to firing Hendry; I just recognize the odds that his replacement will be better aren't very good. That doesn't mean I want Hendry to stick around...I'm just not getting worked up over his replacement until they prove they're not part of the usual parade of crap that is the average MLB GM.

 

When was the last time an owner telegraphed a GM replacement before first firing the existing one? The Jocketty situation is the only one I can remember.

 

I don't understand what this has to do with anything. I'm not stating that the replacement has to be picked out or "telegraphed" or interviewed or whatever before Hendry is fired. I don't care if, how, where or when Hendry is fired. The closest I've come to "defending" him is saying that I wouldn't be opposed to keeping him for another season only if there is no significant payroll to work with and even then I'm not against him being fired.

[jersey cubs fan]

Maybe he was, and maybe he's just another guy who is a hitting coach that everybody likes, but as Derrek Lee said, those guys are overrated. It's the talent that matters. And he hasn't exactly turned the guys he's worked with in the system into highly productive players.

[SouthSideRyan]

I'm pretty hesitant to attribute big improvements to hitting coaches, but I'd say Geovany Soto is a pretty good starting point for Joshua's case.

[jersey cubs fan]

No one has directly, but all this "we could do worse" business certainly implies it.

 

No, it doesn't. I'm not opposed at all to firing Hendry; I just recognize the odds that his replacement will be better aren't very good. That doesn't mean I want Hendry to stick around...I'm just not getting worked up over his replacement until they prove they're not part of the usual parade of crap that is the average MLB GM.

 

When was the last time an owner telegraphed a GM replacement before first firing the existing one? The Jocketty situation is the only one I can remember.

 

I don't understand what this has to do with anything. I'm not stating that the replacement has to be picked out or "telegraphed" or interviewed or whatever before Hendry is fired. I don't care if, how, where or when Hendry is fired. The closest I've come to "defending" him is saying that I wouldn't be opposed to keeping him for another season only if there is no significant payroll to work with and even then I'm not against him being fired.

 

There's plenty of payroll to work with, the problem is Hendry has pissed much of it away. Considering Hendry has only really improved this team when they were massively increasing payroll (and after he turned the team from decent to crap), I would think that a lack of significant payroll boosts this offseason would be more incentive to get somebody else in there.

[jersey cubs fan]

I'm pretty hesitant to attribute big improvements to hitting coaches, but I'd say Geovany Soto is a pretty good starting point for Joshua's case.

 

One guy who had one good year and then declined significantly. Not much of a case so far.

[SouthSideRyan]

I'm pretty hesitant to attribute big improvements to hitting coaches, but I'd say Geovany Soto is a pretty good starting point for Joshua's case.

 

One guy who had one good year and then declined significantly. Not much of a case so far.

 

So you believe '09 is Soto's true talent level.

 

And that his '07 sucked.

Edited October 6, 2009 by SouthSideRyan

[Sammy Sofa]

There's plenty of payroll to work with, the problem is Hendry has pissed much of it away. Considering Hendry has only really improved this team when they were massively increasing payroll (and after he turned the team from decent to crap), I would think that a lack of significant payroll boosts this offseason would be more incentive to get somebody else in there.

 

Yes and no. Given the new owners I can see the appeal of getting someone new in and signaling a "new era," but that typically requires paying big for such "newness." If the money is there, great, get the new guy in. If not, eh, limit Hendry basically to trades only and I can live with it for another year. Either way, I'm not losing sleep. If they want to still fire Hendry and there's not the money to make a big splash I'm not going to be worked up over it.

[jersey cubs fan]

I'm pretty hesitant to attribute big improvements to hitting coaches, but I'd say Geovany Soto is a pretty good starting point for Joshua's case.

 

One guy who had one good year and then declined significantly. Not much of a case so far.

 

So you believe '09 is Soto's true talent level.

 

And that his '07 sucked.

 

I think his true talent is probably somewhere between his 08 and 09, and his 60 PA in 07 don't really merit mentioning.

[Tarver]

No one has directly, but all this "we could do worse" business certainly implies it.

 

No, it doesn't. I'm not opposed at all to firing Hendry; I just recognize the odds that his replacement will be better aren't very good. That doesn't mean I want Hendry to stick around...I'm just not getting worked up over his replacement until they prove they're not part of the usual parade of crap that is the average MLB GM.

 

When was the last time an owner telegraphed a GM replacement before first firing the existing one? The Jocketty situation is the only one I can remember.

 

I don't understand what this has to do with anything. I'm not stating that the replacement has to be picked out or "telegraphed" or interviewed or whatever before Hendry is fired. I don't care if, how, where or when Hendry is fired. The closest I've come to "defending" him is saying that I wouldn't be opposed to keeping him for another season only if there is no significant payroll to work with and even then I'm not against him being fired.

 

I can live with another offseason if he has absolutely no money to spend, and ownership mandates he can't trade for any contracts with more than two years remaining.

[SouthSideRyan]

I'm pretty hesitant to attribute big improvements to hitting coaches, but I'd say Geovany Soto is a pretty good starting point for Joshua's case.

 

One guy who had one good year and then declined significantly. Not much of a case so far.

 

So you believe '09 is Soto's true talent level.

 

And that his '07 sucked.

 

I think his true talent is probably somewhere between his 08 and 09, and his 60 PA in 07 don't really merit mentioning.

 

Last I started paying close attention to the Cubs this year, Soto was absurdly unlucky on balls in play. He might not be as good as he was in '08, but he took a giant leap forward with 1 year of Joshua. I don't know why you'd toss out Soto's AAA #s that year. And why previously, you've stated you don't care what guys have done at AAA under him. Do you not believe that AAA stats translate to the majors?

[jersey cubs fan]

There's plenty of payroll to work with, the problem is Hendry has pissed much of it away. Considering Hendry has only really improved this team when they were massively increasing payroll (and after he turned the team from decent to crap), I would think that a lack of significant payroll boosts this offseason would be more incentive to get somebody else in there.

 

Yes and no. Given the new owners I can see the appeal of getting someone new in and signaling a "new era," but that typically requires paying big for such "newness." If the money is there, great, get the new guy in. If not, eh, limit Hendry basically to trades only and I can live with it for another year. Either way, I'm not losing sleep. If they want to still fire Hendry and there's not the money to make a big splash I'm not going to be worked up over it.

 

I guess technically I could live with it for another year, but there's no good reason why we should have to. He's been in charge for a very long time and the team is barely over .500 with a huge financial advantage over the competition. I'm not all that upset that Joshua has been canned, but it's a weak move by Jim who typically finds something else to blame for a lack of success. He goes year to year on bizarre tangents, and he's the one who put them in this tight spot with so much money tied into just a few guys for several years. So if they somehow make it so his moves can't cripple the team going further, fine. But much like "Dusty-proofing" a roster, I don't see the point in hanging onto a guy you have to prevent from screwing up the team when he does what he wants to do.

[SouthSideRyan]

And it's not as if Joshua has had anything to work with. By the time players were reaching him at AAA(and to a lesser extent AA), they were pretty far along the line of being failed "prospects"

[jersey cubs fan]

Last I started paying close attention to the Cubs this year, Soto was absurdly unlucky on balls in play. He might not be as good as he was in '08, but he took a giant leap forward with 1 year of Joshua. I don't know why you'd toss out Soto's AAA #s that year. And why previously, you've stated you don't care what guys have done at AAA under him. Do you not believe that AAA stats translate to the majors?

 

I don't care about PCL success. I care about the Cubs producing bats through their system. They haven't done that. One guy in several years with even a chance of being good (but who sucked this year) is meaningless. Nothing about his resume screams must keep. He's just another guy. Scapegoating the hitting coaches is weak, but just because he's respected doesn't mean he is a guy you have to have as your major league hitting coach. And if he takes that AAA job, he's right back where he theoretically has the most value to the organization anyway, so again, no big deal.

[Sammy Sofa]

There's plenty of payroll to work with, the problem is Hendry has pissed much of it away. Considering Hendry has only really improved this team when they were massively increasing payroll (and after he turned the team from decent to crap), I would think that a lack of significant payroll boosts this offseason would be more incentive to get somebody else in there.

 

Yes and no. Given the new owners I can see the appeal of getting someone new in and signaling a "new era," but that typically requires paying big for such "newness." If the money is there, great, get the new guy in. If not, eh, limit Hendry basically to trades only and I can live with it for another year. Either way, I'm not losing sleep. If they want to still fire Hendry and there's not the money to make a big splash I'm not going to be worked up over it.

 

I guess technically I could live with it for another year, but there's no good reason why we should have to. He's been in charge for a very long time and the team is barely over .500 with a huge financial advantage over the competition. I'm not all that upset that Joshua has been canned, but it's a weak move by Jim who typically finds something else to blame for a lack of success. He goes year to year on bizarre tangents, and he's the one who put them in this tight spot with so much money tied into just a few guys for several years. So if they somehow make it so his moves can't cripple the team going further, fine. But much like "Dusty-proofing" a roster, I don't see the point in hanging onto a guy you have to prevent from screwing up the team when he does what he wants to do.

 

I agree with all of this.

[Guest]

There's plenty of payroll to work with, the problem is Hendry has pissed much of it away. Considering Hendry has only really improved this team when they were massively increasing payroll (and after he turned the team from decent to crap), I would think that a lack of significant payroll boosts this offseason would be more incentive to get somebody else in there.

 

Yes and no. Given the new owners I can see the appeal of getting someone new in and signaling a "new era," but that typically requires paying big for such "newness." If the money is there, great, get the new guy in. If not, eh, limit Hendry basically to trades only and I can live with it for another year. Either way, I'm not losing sleep. If they want to still fire Hendry and there's not the money to make a big splash I'm not going to be worked up over it.

 

I guess technically I could live with it for another year, but there's no good reason why we should have to. He's been in charge for a very long time and the team is barely over .500 with a huge financial advantage over the competition. I'm not all that upset that Joshua has been canned, but it's a weak move by Jim who typically finds something else to blame for a lack of success. He goes year to year on bizarre tangents, and he's the one who put them in this tight spot with so much money tied into just a few guys for several years. So if they somehow make it so his moves can't cripple the team going further, fine. But much like "Dusty-proofing" a roster, I don't see the point in hanging onto a guy you have to prevent from screwing up the team when he does what he wants to do.

 

I agree with all of this.

 

Goony nailed it with "He's been in charge for a very long time and the team is barely over .500 with a huge financial advantage over the competition".

 

I'd rather take a look at one of Epstein's understudies or even give DePodesta a try. As much as I can understand that the guy you hire to replace Hendry could be worse, I think it's ridiculous to hang on to a known failure for fear of being worse with the next guy. Don't give the next guy a super long leash like the one Hendry has enjoyed.