Fox vs. Hoffpauir

[Little Slide Rooter]

With Ramirez, Johnson, and Miles due back sooner than later, it may ver well come down to 1 of these guys back in Iowa, unless a trade can be arranged. In a perfect world, Fox could be a backup catcher, but from what I hear, thats not an option. So who stays and who goes in such a situation

 

Lefty/Righty: We all know Lou wants lefties. advantage: Hoff

Defense: Hoff is a better defensive player, however, Fox is capable of playing multiple postions. However, when Ramoirez is back, they could also just use Font or Baker as the backup 3B, although youd rather have Foxes bat on days when Ramirez is off than Baker or Blanco, who would probably take Fonts place at 2nd when Fonts at 3rd. Advantage: Draw

Offense: Fox seems to be a much better batter. Hes more likely to take a walk or at least work a deeper count than Hoff who seems more likely to swing away and hope he gets ahold of one. Advantage: Fox

Age: Fox is 3 years younger than Hoff. At 26(almost 27) Fox is a few years older than your average prospect, whereas at age 29, most players are at their ceiling are at there ceiling advantage:Fox

 

Fox seems to have much more of an upside than Hoffpauir, however, due to these factors, this makes him a more attractive trade candidate if it comes down to that, so we'll see what happens. We had both Ward and Floyd in '07 and that worked out, so maybe theres room for the both of them. Of course, the obvious choice would be to let Miles fly, but I dont know id Hendrys ready to do that.

[inari]

I didn't even read what you said because the answer is pretty obviously Fox were it to come down to one or the other.

[RedFlash]

I didn't even read what you said because the answer is pretty obviously Fox were it to come down to one or the other.

 

Yep.

[rawaction]

Why not both? You have 12 pitchers right now, which is more than necessary. When Johnson comes back, obviously, Fuld goes. When Guzman comes back, Hart or Shark goes back to Iowa. When Ramirez comes back you can send the other back or end the Patton experience. When Miles comes back, you have the decision to make w/ Blanco or Fontenot.

[Three Finger]

I think Fox has more upside, but not enough upside that we shouldn't trade him while he still has value. He's young enough to appeal to a team that is trying to rebuild, and perhaps we could pick up a veteran reliever in the mix. Fox isn't going to be an everyday player when we get Ramirez back, so we would be better served to test his value in the market to fill the gaping hole in our bullpen.

[rawaction]

I think Fox has more upside, but not enough upside that we shouldn't trade him while he still has value. He's young enough to appeal to a team that is trying to rebuild, and perhaps we could pick up a veteran reliever in the mix. Fox isn't going to be an everyday player when we get Ramirez back, so we would be better served to test his value in the market to fill the gaping hole in our bullpen.

 

The gaping hole is in the offense, not the bullpen. Trading offense for a "veteran" middle reliever will do nothing for this team.

[Three Finger]

I think Fox has more upside, but not enough upside that we shouldn't trade him while he still has value. He's young enough to appeal to a team that is trying to rebuild, and perhaps we could pick up a veteran reliever in the mix. Fox isn't going to be an everyday player when we get Ramirez back, so we would be better served to test his value in the market to fill the gaping hole in our bullpen.

 

The gaping hole is in the offense, not the bullpen. Trading offense for a "veteran" middle reliever will do nothing for this team.

 

A backup who will get a pinch hit appearance every third day once Ramirez comes back. Ramirez returning will help the offense. Our bullpen is awful. What do you propose we deal that would get us an upgrade in offense? The only thing we have that is expendable that other teams would be interested in, is starting pitching. Being that our great starting pitching is the only thing that is keeping us in contention in the division, getting rid of a starter for offense would be a draw at best. Getting a better relief pitcher for a prospect is much more likely, and our bullpen (especially in the middle) is awful.

[Sammy Sofa]

I think Fox has more upside, but not enough upside that we shouldn't trade him while he still has value. He's young enough to appeal to a team that is trying to rebuild, and perhaps we could pick up a veteran reliever in the mix. Fox isn't going to be an everyday player when we get Ramirez back, so we would be better served to test his value in the market to fill the gaping hole in our bullpen.

 

The gaping hole is in the offense, not the bullpen. Trading offense for a "veteran" middle reliever will do nothing for this team.

 

A backup who will get a pinch hit appearance every third day once Ramirez comes back. Ramirez returning will help the offense. Our bullpen is awful. What do you propose we deal that would get us an upgrade in offense? The only thing we have that is expendable that other teams would be interested in, is starting pitching. Being that our great starting pitching is the only thing that is keeping us in contention in the division, getting rid of a starter for offense would be a draw at best. Getting a better relief pitcher for a prospect is much more likely, and our bullpen (especially in the middle) is awful.

 

The bullpen really hasn't been "awful" for over a month. Guzman is about to come back. Marshall is always there if Lou wakes up and realizes he can use him for more than 1 batter. Heilman has had stretches where he's been fine. Marmol is looking better. Gregg, for the most part, gets it done. We haven't really seen what Shark can do this time around if he stays, plus there's the other rotating options up now or in the minors. The bullpen is not a "gaping hole" at this point. Sure, it could be improved, but it's not the most pressing need. Aramis is no kind of a lock to come back and be a difference maker given the nature of his injury. It would be much smarter to to look to upgrade the offense at 2nd or even SS if possible or if need be in the OF.

[biittner77]

It would be much smarter to to look to upgrade the offense at 2nd or even SS if possible or if need be in the OF.

 

Can't upgrade the offense antywhere except 2nd base due to the salaries the Cubs are paying the guys that they already have. It would be hard to find an offensive upgrade at SS that is actually available for what the Cubs could pay.

 

What the Cubs need to upgrade the offense is for either Soriano or Bradley to have an injury that keeps them out until Sept.

[Three Finger]

Who do you think we have the disposable talent to trade for that will be an improvement at second? There aren't many options.

[biittner77]

Who do you think we have the disposable talent to trade for that will be an improvement at second? There aren't many options.

 

From the Cubs:

Jake Fox is still a bat with no position.

Randy Wells will eventually turn into a pumpkin.

 

at AAA:

Chris Robinson could be expendable since the Cubs have a relatively young Soto and Clevenger at AAA plus Wellington Castillo if he hits any at AA.

 

at AA:

Tyler Colvin has hit well at Tenn. Not that the Cubs would throw him in for just anybody but they did just use the #1 pick on a cf and there are doubts that Colvin can stick in CF.

[CUBZ99]

Who do you think we have the disposable talent to trade for that will be an improvement at second? There aren't many options.

 

From the Cubs:

Jake Fox is still a bat with no position.

Randy Wells will eventually turn into a pumpkin.

 

at AAA:

Chris Robinson could be expendable since the Cubs have a relatively young Soto and Clevenger at AAA plus Wellington Castillo if he hits any at AA.

 

at AA:

Tyler Colvin has hit well at Tenn. Not that the Cubs would throw him in for just anybody but they did just use the #1 pick on a cf and there are doubts that Colvin can stick in CF.

 

Quite the contrary, Fox has shown the he can handle 3rd base and he hasn't looked that bad in the OF either. Sure he won't win a gold glove, but his defense problems have been greatly exaggerated.

[Arnold Layne]

There's no point in trading anyone for anything. What you see is what you get this year. Basically a .500 team with a terrible outfield that needs to be thinned.

 

Keep Fox around and see if he can handle 3B and shuffle Aram over to 1B when Lee leaves. At some point the Cubs are going to need to find some young position players who can mash because they are in a serious bind with that disgrace of an outfield.

 

To answer the OP, you have to find a way to keep both up. Both have more value than Reed Johnson IMHO. Same for Miles and Patton.

[UMFan83]

I bet the decision isn't as much of a no brainer as you suggest. The person they keep will likely be a bench player mainly who can fill in occasionally. So the Cubs will look for the best player for their bench. Hoff being a lefty helps his case big time even if Fox is better and has more upside.

 

I don't necessarily agree with this logic, but I'm trying to think like the Cubs do.

[NCCubFan]

When Guzman comes back, Hart or Shark goes back to Iowa.

Or they could DL Patton with a phantom injury. I believe by then he will have been on the 25-man roster the required 90 days to satisfy the Rule 5 requirements. They could DL him for July and August, then bring him back for garbage duty when rosters expand in September.

[inari]

Who do you think we have the disposable talent to trade for that will be an improvement at second? There aren't many options.

 

From the Cubs:

Jake Fox is still a bat with no position.

Randy Wells will eventually turn into a pumpkin.

 

at AAA:

Chris Robinson could be expendable since the Cubs have a relatively young Soto and Clevenger at AAA plus Wellington Castillo if he hits any at AA.

 

at AA:

Tyler Colvin has hit well at Tenn. Not that the Cubs would throw him in for just anybody but they did just use the #1 pick on a cf and there are doubts that Colvin can stick in CF.

 

Quite the contrary, Fox has shown the he can handle 3rd base and he hasn't looked that bad in the OF either. Sure he won't win a gold glove, but his defense problems have been greatly exaggerated.

 

Based on what, exactly? He's been up here for a short time. He has a large body of work that indicates he's a butcher.

[PackLandVA]

I suspect Fox's AVG will slowly (or quickly) creep down toward .250 or lower as he gets more ABs, much like has been happening with Hoff. I'd be all for trading him while he's still got some value. as far as being able to play multiple positions, big deal. I'm sure Hoff wouldn't butcher ever groundball hit his way if he were playing SS or 2B. But the reality is, he's an average (at best) LF or RF.

[Illini Iceman]

I find it somewhat humerous that people who have seen Fox for two weeks are certain he will not sustain his production but they feel that other GM's who have whole teams of scouts that have been watching these players for years are not going to know this and will be willing to give up quality major league talent based on 2 weeks of success.

 

Fox and Hoff would be fine guys to have on the bench along with Baker, Johnson and Hill as the back up C and Miles as the utility infielder. The Cubs just need to get off their need for a 12 man bullpen and either start actually using Patton or dump him and have a 6th reliever out of the bullpen they will actually allow to get into games so the rest of the pen doesn't get over used.

[PackLandVA]

Fox (and Hoff for that matter) might be better suited for a team without playoff expectations where he would be able to get 20+ ABs each week and time to develop his skills in the field. But once Rammy gets back, Fox is gonna be on the bench. Gonna be hard for him to sustain any consistent bat when he's on ly getting 4-5ABs each week.

 

I don't think he has a future with the Cubs, so if another team thinks they can develop him, trade while he's hitting!

[Cubbie Swagger]

If Sam Fuld stays on the roster and they send down either Fox or Hoff, I'm gonna lose my mind.

[SweetZombieJesus]

Simple Answer: Trade Lee for a bag of baseballs.

[Little Slide Rooter]

If Sam Fuld stays on the roster and they send down either Fox or Hoff, I'm gonna lose my mind.

 

It will likely come down to sending down Fuld and one of Fox or Hoff. Fulds almost a given after not starting today. As for the other, I doubt its Blanco whose out of options and the only legit backup SS on the team. Font has been OK the past few games, and I dont think theyd have traded for Baker and DFAd Freel if they just planned on getting rid of Baker. The only other option I can think of is going with 11 pitchers, which Id rather do than keep Patton around.

[Tracer Bullet]

Simple Answer: Trade Lee for a bag of baseballs.

 

Question: what's one of the dumbest things the Cubs could do?

[Cubbie Swagger]

Quite the contrary, Fox has shown the he can handle 3rd base and he hasn't looked that bad in the OF either. Sure he won't win a gold glove, but his defense problems have been greatly exaggerated.

Hmm... last time I checked we have three of our highest paid players playing third, left and right. Fox is a bat without an available position.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Quite the contrary, Fox has shown the he can handle 3rd base and he hasn't looked that bad in the OF either. Sure he won't win a gold glove, but his defense problems have been greatly exaggerated.

Hmm... last time I checked we have three of our highest paid players playing third, left and right. Fox is a bat without an available position.

 

There are no avalable positions on this team, with the possible acception of 2nd, and neither player can play it. Both Fox and Hoff are competing for a spot on the bench, and Fox can backup more positions than Hoff