What if the Cubs become sellers?

[E.J.]

soriano has five years after this one

 

HAHAHAHA. It's already a terrible contract. Can you imagine how it's going to look in 3 years?

[Bryants Disco Ball]

This story from the day Maddux was traded says that the Dodgers wouldn't give Hendry rookie outfielder Andre Ethier or future closer Jon Broxton, and that Hendry eventually gave in and took Cesar.

 

Hendry for GM of the year! He correctly wanted two future stars, but just couldn't get them!

 

http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/sports/abox/article_1229309.php

 

That article just says that Hendry wanted Ethier or Broxton. Just because Hendry was trying to get those two guys doesn't mean Colletti was willing to trade them for Maddux.

 

Exactly. I was just showing that the person who said Hendry passed up on Ethier in favor of Ceaser perhaps was remembering wrong.

[Little Slide Rooter]

soriano has five years after this one

 

HAHAHAHA. It's already a terrible contract. Can you imagine how it's going to look in 3 years?

 

You mean when hes batting 8th in a lineup consisting of Sam Fuld, Doug Deeds, and Joe Thursten?

[17 Seconds]

i almost wouldn't hate trading harden if hendry actually got something decent for him.

[17 Seconds]

As much as I would love to see the Cubs be able to trade some of these players, NONE of them can or will be traded. Not even Lilly.

 

Due to the market and economy this season, no team is going to be interested in taking a contract that still calls for a good deal of money to be paid this season along with next season (i.e. Lilly and Lee).

 

In addition, the Cubs can't and won't eat a lot of the money on these contracts to ship these guys out, even if Lee waived his no trade.

 

It's a terrible season to be a seller.

 

i think teams would be willing to take on lilly's contract in a heartbeat

[dew1679666265]

This story from the day Maddux was traded says that the Dodgers wouldn't give Hendry rookie outfielder Andre Ethier or future closer Jon Broxton, and that Hendry eventually gave in and took Cesar.

 

Hendry for GM of the year! He correctly wanted two future stars, but just couldn't get them!

 

http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/sports/abox/article_1229309.php

 

That article just says that Hendry wanted Ethier or Broxton. Just because Hendry was trying to get those two guys doesn't mean Colletti was willing to trade them for Maddux.

 

Exactly. I was just showing that the person who said Hendry passed up on Ethier in favor of Ceaser perhaps was remembering wrong.

 

There was quite a bit of confusion at the time of the trade as to what Hendry could get for Maddux. Some reports claimed Hendry targeted Izturis from the start and that Colletti was willing to give Kemp or Ethier for Maddux, but Hendry wasn't interested. Others reported that Hendry went hard after the two, but Colletti wouldn't give in - thus Hendry dropped his demands and got what he could get.

 

I'm honestly not sure which account to believe, but it's hard to imagine passing up on Kemp or Ethier considering what it appeared they'd become at the time.

[dew1679666265]

As much as I would love to see the Cubs be able to trade some of these players, NONE of them can or will be traded. Not even Lilly.

 

Due to the market and economy this season, no team is going to be interested in taking a contract that still calls for a good deal of money to be paid this season along with next season (i.e. Lilly and Lee).

 

In addition, the Cubs can't and won't eat a lot of the money on these contracts to ship these guys out, even if Lee waived his no trade.

 

It's a terrible season to be a seller.

 

i think teams would be willing to take on lilly's contract in a heartbeat

 

Yeah, for his performance thus far, I'd say teams will be more than willing to take him and give up quite a bit for him.

 

I have trouble buying into it being a good idea to deal him (assuming we fall from contention, which I don't think is all that likely).

[17 Seconds]

yeah i don't understand why anybody would want to trade lilly either. the idea is to get rid of bad contracts, not good ones. lilly has been great since he joined the cubs and has another year left after this.

[Outshined_One]

as bad as we were in 05, he passed on Ethier in favor of Izturis because he thought he'd be pay more immediate dividends.

 

i'm going to assume this is just speculation and is untrue, because if i knew it to be true, i might have to drive to chicago and personally strangle hendry.

 

I remember it being speculation at the time. I don't think anyone ever confirmed it.

 

However, what I do remember hearing is how Hendry passed up prospects for Izturis in that trade.

[dew1679666265]

yeah i don't understand why anybody would want to trade lilly either. the idea is to get rid of bad contracts, not good ones. lilly has been great since he joined the cubs and has another year left after this.

 

I understand the thinking behind it - that we're not going to re-sign him after next year and this is likely the peak of his value, so if we're selling anyway, sell high on Lilly.

 

My problem with the idea, though, is that if we could dump a couple of bad contracts, that would free up some room to improve at positions we need to improve at. That would then allow us to compete next year and Lilly will be an integral part of that contention.

[Tracer Bullet]

Even if we suck, I don't know why we'd trade Lilly unless we got back an impact player for next year. The Cubs aren't likely to be rebuilding for 2011. They'd still be looking at Soto, ARam, Theriot, Bradley, Fukudome, Soriano, and Lee if he won't agree to a trade with Z, Lilly, Dempster and maybe Harden in the rotation. Doesn't make sense to pay as much as they're going to pay those guys in 2010 to try to build for 2011. And we don't have so much pitching that we can give away Lilly without bringing a ML ready arm back in the deal.

[Cubswin11]

I think Harden or Lilly (with maybe Gregg or Heilman along with one of them) would be a interesting package to float to the Rangers or Angels. They both have legit chances to win their division and are going to need pitching at some point, because Millwood and Jennings won't continue to be sub 3 era pitchers for the Rangers and the Angels are pitching starved. The Rangers have a top 3 minor league system so there is talent to be had there, the Angels don't have a great system, but they have guys who have been top prospects who haven't produced yet at the ML level. I would love to see Hendry do a Harden/Lilly plus a player or two for Kendrick, as it seems he has fallen out of favor in LA and might be able to be had.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I think Harden or Lilly (with maybe Gregg or Heilman along with one of them) would be a interesting package to float to the Rangers or Angels. They both have legit chances to win their division and are going to need pitching at some point, because Millwood and Jennings won't continue to be sub 3 era pitchers for the Rangers and the Angels are pitching starved. The Rangers have a top 3 minor league system so there is talent to be had there, the Angels don't have a great system, but they have guys who have been top prospects who haven't produced yet at the ML level. I would love to see Hendry do a Harden/Lilly plus a player or two for Kendrick, as it seems he has fallen out of favor in LA and might be able to be had.

 

I would very much not like that deal. The reason kendrick has fallen out of favor with the Angels is because he hasnt been very good. We have enough of that. If we were to sell, we could get a lot for Harden.

[mhuber92211]

One thing to also consider is injuries. Looking at teams that suffer injuries in the next month might open dorrs that would otherwise seem closed.

 

The Angels would be a good fit for Lee. They would consider Brandon Wood at this point as well as Erick Aybar.

[Little Slide Rooter]

One thing to also consider is injuries. Looking at teams that suffer injuries in the next month might open dorrs that would otherwise seem closed.

 

The Angels would be a good fit for Lee. They would consider Brandon Wood at this point as well as Erick Aybar.

 

If Delgado isnt due back any time soon, The Mets would love Lee, not too mention Harden.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

This team, with the backloaded contracts and the guys in their early 30s, is more or less stuck. They couldn't blow it up and start over even if they wanted to, which they don't.

 

They won't be sellers. At worst, if things don't get better, they stand pat and try for 2011. If anything, they could be that team that doesn't look like they are in it but are inexplicably buyers.

[NCCubFan]

This team, with the backloaded contracts and the guys in their early 30s, is more or less stuck. They couldn't blow it up and start over even if they wanted to, which they don't.

 

They won't be sellers. At worst, if things don't get better, they stand pat and try for 2011. If anything, they could be that team that doesn't look like they are in it but are inexplicably buyers.

I hope that was a typo.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

This team, with the backloaded contracts and the guys in their early 30s, is more or less stuck. They couldn't blow it up and start over even if they wanted to, which they don't.

 

They won't be sellers. At worst, if things don't get better, they stand pat and try for 2011. If anything, they could be that team that doesn't look like they are in it but are inexplicably buyers.

I hope that was a typo.

 

I'm getting old. The years all run together.

[dew1679666265]

This team, with the backloaded contracts and the guys in their early 30s, is more or less stuck. They couldn't blow it up and start over even if they wanted to, which they don't.

 

They won't be sellers. At worst, if things don't get better, they stand pat and try for 2011. If anything, they could be that team that doesn't look like they are in it but are inexplicably buyers.

 

I could see them selling off guys with one-year deals who are questionable or unlikely to return (Harden, Gregg, etc.) but otherwise I agree we wouldn't do much selling.

 

That said, I don't think we're falling out of contention this season.

[UK1679666180]

If they did become sellers, I would hope that they use that as an opportunity to cont. to improve the farm and increase assets towards improving the Latin American crop of prospects. Most importantly, use it as a chance to decide on an organizational philosophy and stick with it. Right now, they're trying to patchwork a team that's window that has likely closed with parts that are worth more than they provide and no direction towards the long-term. Every year, they try something new and it gets more expensive everytime they try and fail.

 

Of course, if they sell and then try and rebuild via FA to make up those pieces they traded; they'll likely be in worse shape than they are now.

[champaignchris]

The Cubs are 9-16 in their last 25 and playing offensive baseball about as poorly as they possibly can, and yet, they're still only 2.5 games out of the playoffs. Thus this question is probably going to be moot.

 

That said, Harden and Gregg would be the two guys that you'd think about shipping. If you could get Lee to waive the no-trade, that'd also be good.

 

It'd be awesome to get rid of Soriano or Bradley, and you'd have to eat a good chunk of the contract to do it, but I just don't see it happening.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Everyone keeps talking about being only 2.5 games back. This isnt a reflection on the Cubs playing well, rather the poor play of the teams around us. We are capable of pulling it together and being in first as early as soon as the ASB if not sooner, but at the same time, if the Cubs keep playing as poorly as they are, The Brewers and/or Cards are 1 hot streak away sinking us to 10 back in that same time frame. The rest of the division has allowed the Cubs to keep their destiny in their own hands, and its up to them to make the most of it.

[dew1679666265]

Everyone keeps talking about being only 2.5 games back. This isnt a reflection on the Cubs playing well, rather the poor play of the teams around us. We are capable of pulling it together and being in first as early as soon as the ASB, but at the same time, if the Cubs keep playing as poorly as they are, The Brewers and/or Cards are 1 hot streak away sinking us to 10 back in that same time frame. The rest of the division has allowed the Cubs to keep their destiny in their own hands, and its up to them to make the most of it.

 

The other teams in the division aren't drastically underperforming, though. The Cubs are the most likely team to break out of the doldrums at any point, so the fact that the Cards and Brewers are allowing us to hang in when we've been so bad is only good news for us.

 

They're not likely to be much better than they've been to this point, while the Cubs are likely to be much better. The longer we hang around in the division while playing poorly, the better our outlook for the stretch run gets.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Everyone keeps talking about being only 2.5 games back. This isnt a reflection on the Cubs playing well, rather the poor play of the teams around us. We are capable of pulling it together and being in first as early as soon as the ASB, but at the same time, if the Cubs keep playing as poorly as they are, The Brewers and/or Cards are 1 hot streak away sinking us to 10 back in that same time frame. The rest of the division has allowed the Cubs to keep their destiny in their own hands, and its up to them to make the most of it.

 

The other teams in the division aren't drastically underperforming, though. The Cubs are the most likely team to break out of the doldrums at any point, so the fact that the Cards and Brewers are allowing us to hang in when we've been so bad is only good news for us.

 

They're not likely to be much better than they've been to this point, while the Cubs are likely to be much better. The longer we hang around in the division while playing poorly, the better our outlook for the stretch run gets.

 

True, but The Brewers have been getting some bad hitting from pretty much everyone but Braun and Fielder lately, and you can argue that any one or more of Hart, Hardy, Cameron, and Hall are due to breakout and day now. Also, the Cards and Brewers both have the freedom to make a trade in a few weeks, which due to bad planning, we can not unless we want to settle on a slight upgrade.

[dew1679666265]

Everyone keeps talking about being only 2.5 games back. This isnt a reflection on the Cubs playing well, rather the poor play of the teams around us. We are capable of pulling it together and being in first as early as soon as the ASB, but at the same time, if the Cubs keep playing as poorly as they are, The Brewers and/or Cards are 1 hot streak away sinking us to 10 back in that same time frame. The rest of the division has allowed the Cubs to keep their destiny in their own hands, and its up to them to make the most of it.

 

The other teams in the division aren't drastically underperforming, though. The Cubs are the most likely team to break out of the doldrums at any point, so the fact that the Cards and Brewers are allowing us to hang in when we've been so bad is only good news for us.

 

They're not likely to be much better than they've been to this point, while the Cubs are likely to be much better. The longer we hang around in the division while playing poorly, the better our outlook for the stretch run gets.

 

True, but The Brewers have been getting some bad hitting from pretty much everyone but Braun and Fielder lately, and you can argue that any one or more of Hart, Hardy, Cameron, and Hall are due to breakout and day now. Also, the Cards and Brewers both have the freedom to make a trade in a few weeks, which due to bad planning, we can not unless we want to settle on a slight upgrade.

 

Hart: 2008 OPS+: 96; 2009 OPS+: 96

 

Cameron: OPS+ of 124 is his best since 2006

 

Hall: 2009 OPS+: 62; 2008 OPS+: 79; 2007 OPS+: 89

 

Hardy is the only Brewer playing significantly below his normal output. If anything, you could argue Cameron is playing above his head (103 and 110 OPS+ the last two years) and Hall is on the decline (gotten worse each of the last three years, including this one). Hart had a big year in 2007, but is right in line with what he did last year and his career OPS+ is 105.

 

Either team could make a trade, but unless it's major it won't make them better than what we potentially can be.