Would it be outrageous to bring Josh Vitters up?

[Gmoney08]

At first glance I figured the Cubs would ruin him. But, comparing him to a couple super young players the Marlins brought up Miguel Cabrera and Edgar Renteria at age 19 makes me thing about it a little more.

 

I figured Miguel and Edgar were destroying double A or triple A by age 19 and thats why they were up. But, here is a post from another board.

 

"Vitters hit .328 in low A ball at the age of 18, his first season. Renteria hit .253 in A ball at the age of 18, the end of his third season. Cabrera hit .268 at the age of 18 in his first season. In Cabrera's second season, age 19 at A+ ball he hit .274 with 9 bombs in 124 games, Renteria hit .289 in 135 games with 7 bombs in AA ball. Vitters is currently hitting .357 with 8 bombs in only 37 games at age 19 so he is on pace to hit more homeruns than Cabrera did at 19.

But what i was trying to say is that those two were called up for necessity. Renteria replaced a weak Alex Arias who never hit better than .277, he didn't hit home runs or steal bases so in 96 renteria was called up and replaced him and the next year they won the world series. He was called up at 20 and was the marlins #1 prospect at the time.

Cabrera was hitting well in AA ball when he was called up midway through the 2003 season to help out with todd holandsworth who wasn't hitting well. And Cabrera helped the team and they won the world series. Cabrera was called up when he was 20 and was the Marlins #1 prospect at the time.

Vitters is hitting well in A ball and has showed the same power that Cabrera was called up for. Vitters is 19, going to be 20 in August and is currently the #1 prospect for the Cubs and we need help right now, so why no give him a shot, and if he doesn't work out right away, then put him back in the minors and take their time with him. "

 

How does Vitters at this age compare with minor league statistics to other young guys who were called up early like Andruw Jones, Justin Upton, BJ Upton, Alex Rodriguez, Albert Pujols, etc.

 

Im sure a couple were in double A or triple A before being brought up. IIRC, Pujols was destroying the minors as well.

[laurens]

He still needs to work on some things. I think he's a bit too aggressive for ML pitching, and good pitchers will take him apart.

[jersey cubs fan]

Yes, it would be. Not only is he unlikely to be all that good right now, but you'd start his option and arbitration clock, just a horrible idea. He shouldn't see Wrigley until 2011 at the earliest, and even then it should probably end up being a September call-up.

[Gmoney08]

Can Vitters play 2B? I know he has struggled a bit at 3B. Would he have the range at 2b to play there? IIRC, he had some trouble with the throws over to 1B, which playing 2B would probably be a bit easier.

[Gmoney08]

Yes, it would be. Not only is he unlikely to be all that good right now, but you'd start his option and arbitration clock, just a horrible idea. He shouldn't see Wrigley until 2011 at the earliest, and even then it should probably end up being a September call-up.

 

Maybe he wouldnt be all that good but he is out performing players who have made the jump at the same age like Miguel Cabrera and Edgar Renteria. Im not so sure Vitters would struggle that much. His bat is highly touted and sometimes a pure hitter can make the adjustment quick. This kid isnt a normal prospect he is very highly touted and other teams have done this with their uber stars and it has worked out well.

 

Its no sure thing but it makes you wounder if Vitters could make the jump.

[TruffleShuffle]

a thousand times, yes.

[jersey cubs fan]

Yes, it would be. Not only is he unlikely to be all that good right now, but you'd start his option and arbitration clock, just a horrible idea. He shouldn't see Wrigley until 2011 at the earliest, and even then it should probably end up being a September call-up.

 

Maybe he wouldnt be all that good but he is out performing players who have made the jump at the same age like Miguel Cabrera and Edgar Renteria. Im not so sure Vitters would struggle that much. His bat is highly touted and sometimes a pure hitter can make the adjustment quick. This kid isnt a normal prospect he is very highly touted and other teams have done this with their uber stars and it has worked out well.

 

Its no sure thing but it makes you wounder if Vitters could make the jump.

 

It doesn't make me wonder and I hope the Cubs aren't even considering it.

[TruffleShuffle]

Yes, it would be. Not only is he unlikely to be all that good right now, but you'd start his option and arbitration clock, just a horrible idea. He shouldn't see Wrigley until 2011 at the earliest, and even then it should probably end up being a September call-up.

 

Maybe he wouldnt be all that good but he is out performing players who have made the jump at the same age like Miguel Cabrera and Edgar Renteria. Im not so sure Vitters would struggle that much. His bat is highly touted and sometimes a pure hitter can make the adjustment quick. This kid isnt a normal prospect he is very highly touted and other teams have done this with their uber stars and it has worked out well.

 

Its no sure thing but it makes you wounder if Vitters could make the jump.

 

cabrera was a year older and played a full season at high A and a half season at AA. renteria played a full season at A+, a full season at AA and a month and a half at AAA and was called up when he was 20. nobody goes straight from low A to the majors unless they're a rule 5 pick and will be spending most of their first big league year on the bench.

[Gmoney08]

Yes, it would be. Not only is he unlikely to be all that good right now, but you'd start his option and arbitration clock, just a horrible idea. He shouldn't see Wrigley until 2011 at the earliest, and even then it should probably end up being a September call-up.

 

Maybe he wouldnt be all that good but he is out performing players who have made the jump at the same age like Miguel Cabrera and Edgar Renteria. Im not so sure Vitters would struggle that much. His bat is highly touted and sometimes a pure hitter can make the adjustment quick. This kid isnt a normal prospect he is very highly touted and other teams have done this with their uber stars and it has worked out well.

 

Its no sure thing but it makes you wounder if Vitters could make the jump.

 

It doesn't make me wonder and I hope the Cubs aren't even considering it.

 

Well were the Marlins idiots for bringing Renteria and Cabrera up? There minor league numbers were solid but Vitters are more impressive. Why can other teams have success with 19, 20, 21 year old players but the Cubs cant.

[CubColtPacer]

The only person that you mentioned that had a single at-bat at regular A ball the year they were called up was Alex Rodriguez, and he only got a handful of at-bats in the majors that season.

 

The other players were at least at high A at the start of the season and some of them were in AA. Essentially, Vitters would follow their career path if he came up sometime during the middle of next year. That would be awfully young like all of those other prospects.

 

Bringing him up this year is crazy-you'd have to promote him super aggressively straight to AA for 2-3 months, and then promote him again in August or September if he's destroying the ball. There's very little reward in a plan like that and a ton of risk. It's simply too big of a jump trying to think of a prospect jumping 4 levels like that.

 

The best timetable for Vitters is the middle of next year and that's incredibly unlikely. The beginning to middle of 2011 is a more realistic fast timetable for him.

[Gmoney08]

Yes, it would be. Not only is he unlikely to be all that good right now, but you'd start his option and arbitration clock, just a horrible idea. He shouldn't see Wrigley until 2011 at the earliest, and even then it should probably end up being a September call-up.

 

Maybe he wouldnt be all that good but he is out performing players who have made the jump at the same age like Miguel Cabrera and Edgar Renteria. Im not so sure Vitters would struggle that much. His bat is highly touted and sometimes a pure hitter can make the adjustment quick. This kid isnt a normal prospect he is very highly touted and other teams have done this with their uber stars and it has worked out well.

 

Its no sure thing but it makes you wounder if Vitters could make the jump.

 

cabrera was a year older and played a full season at high A and a half season at AA. renteria played a full season at A+, a full season at AA and a month and a half at AAA and was called up when he was 20. nobody goes straight from low A to the majors unless they're a rule 5 pick and will be spending most of their first big league year on the bench.

 

Cabrera was 4 months older.. Vitters turns 20 in August.

 

Maybe, he's not ready today but could Vitters be put on a fast track like Cabrera/Renteria for example. Would you be against moving Vitters to high A or even Double A? For a couple months and see how he does?

[jersey cubs fan]

Maybe, he's not ready today but could Vitters be put on a fast track like Cabrera/Renteria for example. Would you be against moving Vitters to high A or even Double A? For a couple months and see how he does?

 

I wouldn't be against moving him to high A, but not with any sort of thought of justifying a second promotion to the bigs this year.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I suppose the worst that can happen is he comes up and does exactly wht Fontenot, Miles, and Freel are doing right now and goes back to the minors with a better idea of what to expect when his time comes.

[jersey cubs fan]

I suppose the worst that can happen is he comes up and does exactly wht Fontenot, Miles, and Freel are doing right now and goes back to the minors with a better idea of what to expect when his time comes.

 

That is not the worst, but that is still pretty bad, as you'd have to put him on the 40 man, burn an option when you send him back down, and start his arbitration clock. That has ramifications down the road that are really bad.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I suppose the worst that can happen is he comes up and does exactly wht Fontenot, Miles, and Freel are doing right now and goes back to the minors with a better idea of what to expect when his time comes.

 

That is not the worst, but that is still pretty bad, as you'd have to put him on the 40 man, burn an option when you send him back down, and start his arbitration clock. That has ramifications down the road that are really bad.

 

Oh yeah, I fogot about the business end of the transaction.

[BigSlick]

I love posts like these because its like

 

We lost 4 games in a row@!! What do we do!?

 

Lets start ruining our franchise immediately! If we don't start winning right now I want to sell off or destroy as many pieces as possible!

[Cubswin11]

Next year at this time it would be more plausible, but he's probably still 2-3 years away. The three things I think he would have problems with at the ML level and he needs to work on yet are

 

1.) Plate discipline, drawing walks. Vitters has 3 BB so far this year and I know the scouting reports say he has such good plate coverage and doesn't get fooled a whole that he makes up for it, but he would likely get picked apart at the ML level right now with his approach after a week or two when a advanced scouting report gets out.

 

2.) Defense, I know he has improved as there were concerns if he could stick at 3B long term and he would maybe have to move to the OF/1B. He seems to have put those concerns to rest as he has shown improvement. But he probably would be well below average defensively at the ML level right now.

 

3.) How would he deal with failure/struggles/pressure at such a young age? If he would come up and be a disaster offensively or defensively does he have it in him to deal with it and not be completely ruined that he could never recover from it in 3-5 years when he is 24-26.

 

I think he still needs time to develop on the field and possibly mature and grow off of it (not that he has had any issues, but all guys at 19-20 need growing up to do). I just don't think it's worth the risk of possibly ruining him right now just to get him up for 2 months at the maximum. We should probably just look for a FA, Durham or Grud, or look for a trade. If Miles/Fontenot/Freel/Scales all continue to struggle

[Vanilla Ice]

It would be one of the dumbest things that the Cubs have ever done

[C.C.]

Wouldn't even crack my top 10.

[Guest]

Yes, it would be. Not only is he unlikely to be all that good right now, but you'd start his option and arbitration clock, just a horrible idea. He shouldn't see Wrigley until 2011 at the earliest, and even then it should probably end up being a September call-up.

 

Maybe he wouldnt be all that good but he is out performing players who have made the jump at the same age like Miguel Cabrera and Edgar Renteria. Im not so sure Vitters would struggle that much. His bat is highly touted and sometimes a pure hitter can make the adjustment quick. This kid isnt a normal prospect he is very highly touted and other teams have done this with their uber stars and it has worked out well.

 

Its no sure thing but it makes you wounder if Vitters could make the jump.

 

cabrera was a year older and played a full season at high A and a half season at AA. renteria played a full season at A+, a full season at AA and a month and a half at AAA and was called up when he was 20. nobody goes straight from low A to the majors unless they're a rule 5 pick and will be spending most of their first big league year on the bench.

 

Cabrera was 4 months older.. Vitters turns 20 in August.

 

Maybe, he's not ready today but could Vitters be put on a fast track like Cabrera/Renteria for example. Would you be against moving Vitters to high A or even Double A? For a couple months and see how he does?

 

Age isn't the only issue. Remember, Cabrera was signed at age 16 so he was in the Marlins system for 4 years before getting promoted. And of course, he was also at AA.

 

Vitters has patience issues which would get him eaten alive in the bigs. There is no comparison to getting promoted from low-A to the bigs, especially for a prospect as high-valued as Vitters.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing him up at high-A.

[Wheelimus]

It wouldn't be outrageous. It would be downright stupid.

 

As already mentioned, doing that would start his arbitration and option clocks early. Do we seriously want Vitters getting expensive that quickly? Lets find out if he can handle AA before we get ahead of ourselves.

 

Especially stupid when you consider his likely output. If he would OPS over .650 called up this early, I'd be surprised. And that kind of production you don't ruin a prospect for. If we're that desperate, send the Orioles a cheese sandwich for Chris Gomez. Or just let Scales live the dream. Won't be any worse.

[shnsajax]

Cabrera also spent parts of 4 seasons in the minors, and over 1400 ab's. I don't care about his age compared to Cabrera, Miggy had a ton of experience compared to Vitters. Something he can't learn at the HS level.

 

If the Cubs did bring him up it would stunt his actual growth and in all likelihood set him back even further.

[Outshined_One]

Yes, it would be outrageous.

 

I don't care if he's the best prospect in this organization and a potential Top 20 prospect at the moment, you simply don't bring up a guy from Low A to the majors. The jump in the quality of pitching is unfathomable. It would destroy his confidence. As good as he is, even a top caliber prospect could not handle that kind of jump and be productive in the majors. Plus, you really do not want to screw around with his option clock and arbitration eligibility.

 

If you want to talk up bringing up a hot bat from the minors that would be an unconventional move, think of someone like Tony Thomas or Marquez Smith. At least the jump from AA to the majors isn't nearly as insane as Low A to the majors.

[cubswin2009]

Wouldn't be crazy at all. He'd probably hit better than Soto, Lee, Bradley, and Fontenot.

[Guest]

I've been told by a bunch of guys that played AAA and had brief stints in MLB that the biggest jump is from A to AA. I can't imagine how anyone could go from A to the bigs and be even remotely compitent