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Posted

The guy on Chicago Tribune Lives said that all indications are that Crane Kenney and Jim Hendry will remain in their respective roles when Tom Ricketts officially gains ownership.

 

Thoughts?

 

I personally like this. Hendry may not be the best GM but I would say he's probably a top 10 GM in the league right now. I've read that Kenney was one who was all for upping the payroll and is passionate about winning.

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Posted
The guy on Chicago Tribune Lives said that all indications are that Crane Kenney and Jim Hendry will remain in their respective roles when Tom Ricketts officially gains ownership.

 

Thoughts?

 

I personally like this. Hendry may not be the best GM but I would say he's probably a top 10 GM in the league right now. I've read that Kenney was one who was all for upping the payroll and is passionate about winning.

 

Assuming the sale is completed with Ricketts, I could not have imagined a scenario where Ricketts would fire Hendry or Crane Kenney prior to the end of the season.

 

Overall, I think Hendry has done a good job over the last few years.

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Im curious to see how Hendry does without the endless money pit that was the Tribune.

I've heard rumors our payroll may actually have room to expand w/ TR. Maybe I'm off but that's what I remember hearing.

Posted
Im curious to see how Hendry does without the endless money pit that was the Tribune.

 

We had a high payroll but we definitely were not an endless moneypit. We couldnt just go out and grab anybody we liked. There were players like Vlad Guerrero, Carlos Beltran, and Jason Giambi who liked the Cubs alot and we got outbig significantly for all 3.

Posted
yeah seriously, this is the first year we have been top 6-7 in payroll. it is really annoying when people say the cubs outspend everyone. (especially white sox fans when they have had a higher payroll every year before now)
Posted
Im curious to see how Hendry does without the endless money pit that was the Tribune.

 

We had a high payroll but we definitely were not an endless moneypit. We couldnt just go out and grab anybody we liked. There were players like Vlad Guerrero, Carlos Beltran, and Jason Giambi who liked the Cubs alot and we got outbig significantly for all 3.

 

Yeah, I'd expect the payroll to stay similar to what it's been. The fact that the payroll was what it was under the Tribune meant that we can draw a profit with our current payroll. The Tribune would not let the payroll remain if they were losing money on the Cubs.

 

Thus, Ricketts should be able to make a profit with the current payroll.

Posted
yeah seriously, this is the first year we have been top 6-7 in payroll. it is really annoying when people say the cubs outspend everyone. (especially white sox fans when they have had a higher payroll every year before now)

 

I think we got into the top 3 once a few years ago? But usually were between 5-10 IIRC?

Posted
yeah seriously, this is the first year we have been top 6-7 in payroll. it is really annoying when people say the cubs outspend everyone. (especially white sox fans when they have had a higher payroll every year before now)

 

I think we got into the top 3 once a few years ago? But usually were between 5-10 IIRC?

 

Actually, this year we are top 3 in payroll. The Yankees ($201 M) and Mets ($149 M) are both ahead of us ($134 M) this year.

 

In '08, we had the eighth highest payroll behind the Angels, Dodgers, Mets, Red Sox, Tigers, White Sox and Yankees (in no particular order).

 

In '07, we had the eighth highest payroll as well behind the Angels, Dodgers, Mariners, Mets, Red Sox, White Sox and Yankees.

 

In '06, we had the seventh highest payroll behind the Angels, Dodgers, Mets, Red Sox, White Sox and Yankees.

 

Those are the only four years we've been above a $90 million payroll.

Posted
yeah seriously, this is the first year we have been top 6-7 in payroll. it is really annoying when people say the cubs outspend everyone. (especially white sox fans when they have had a higher payroll every year before now)

 

 

Haven't the Cubs had a top 5 NL payroll for Hendry's entire tenure?

 

Hendry has proven he can throw lots of money around. That's about it. The farm system is bare, the Cubs are unable to win a post season game and they have limited felixibility despite a massive budget. That's not exactly the work of someone you want running the ship.

Posted
yeah seriously, this is the first year we have been top 6-7 in payroll. it is really annoying when people say the cubs outspend everyone. (especially white sox fans when they have had a higher payroll every year before now)

 

 

Haven't the Cubs had a top 5 NL payroll for Hendry's entire tenure?

 

Hendry has proven he can throw lots of money around. That's about it. The farm system is bare, the Cubs are unable to win a post season game and they have limited felixibility despite a massive budget. That's not exactly the work of someone you want running the ship.

 

Hendry has been in control of a team that has made the playoffs 50% of his tenure? Hard to think of another Cub's GM in recent history with that type of success rate.

Posted
yeah seriously, this is the first year we have been top 6-7 in payroll. it is really annoying when people say the cubs outspend everyone. (especially white sox fans when they have had a higher payroll every year before now)

 

 

Haven't the Cubs had a top 5 NL payroll for Hendry's entire tenure?

 

Hendry has proven he can throw lots of money around. That's about it. The farm system is bare, the Cubs are unable to win a post season game and they have limited felixibility despite a massive budget. That's not exactly the work of someone you want running the ship.

 

Hendry has been in control of a team that has made the playoffs 50% of his tenure? Hard to think of another Cub's GM in recent history with that type of success rate.

 

Why is that an accomplishment when you grossly outspend the rest of the division? He should make the playoffs with the highest NLCD payrol year in and year out. A good GM would do that with a balanced farm system and wise FA picks. Instead, Hendry depletes the farm (or his men make bad picks).

 

We outspent the Cardinals by $18 mill last year, the Astros by $30 million., the Brewers by $37 million and the Pirates by $68 million. In 2009, we are outspending the Astros by $30 million (the next closest budget in the division) and outspending the Cardinals by $57 million, the Brewers by $52 million and the Pirates by $85 million.

 

Yeah, not a big deal making the playoffs when you have complete and total budget dominance over the rest of your division. You could set loose a racoon with that budget and do well. But then again, they really haven't done well, have they? Back to back playoff sweeps where it looks like the team completely quit after game 1 - where it looked like our scouts were outfoxed very badly in both sweeps.

 

Where Hendry did go right was 2003. He inherited some key pieces, and then made a great move during the season bringing in Lofton and Ramirez. Since then, it's been big budget after big budget, then streaks of competence followed by embarrassment.

 

Wake me up when Jim Hendry puts together a team that can win a playoff game. Until then, I'd hold off on contact extension II.

Posted

504-467 while dominating your division in payroll isn't really all that hot. Also, there's the context. The Cubs are past the point where any season which does not involve a world series appearance can be deemed a "success".

 

And I'm not even asking for that. What I would like to see is Jim Hendry assemble a Cubs team that is entirely his own group of people that can win a playoff game.

 

That has yet to happen.

Posted
504-467 while dominating your division in payroll isn't really all that hot. Also, there's the context. The Cubs are past the point where any season which does not involve a world series appearance can be deemed a "success".

 

And I'm not even asking for that. What I would like to see is Jim Hendry assemble a Cubs team that is entirely his own group of people that can win a playoff game.

 

That has yet to happen.

 

Yes, he defers to his manager, moreso Baker than Piniella, but this of little importance. Maybe Lou didn't like Gaudin so Hendry had to get rid of him, same with Cedeno, but for the most part he follows performance. Pie is obviously a point against this view though.

Posted

It's not hard to find fault with the job Jim Hendry has done.... he has made some mistakes. He has also shown an ability to evaluate and learn from those mistakes. Right now, I would neither extend his contract nor throw him under the bus. I would evaluate 2009 with hindsight and evaluate whether progress is being made. In spite of the payroll figures and the playoff losses these last 2 years, it's pretty hard to argue with the performance of the major league club. You have to go back to 1936/37 to find a CUBS team that won 182 games over 2 years.

 

 

          2007 thru 2008                            World Series
team                        W       L     pct    PA     W     L

Chicago Cubs              182     141   0.563     2     0     0
Philadelphia Phillies     181     143   0.559     2     1     0
New York Mets             177     147   0.546     0     0     0
Milwaukee Brewers         173     151   0.534     1     0     0
Arizona Diamondbacks      172     152   0.531     1     0     0
Los Angeles Dodgers       166     158   0.512     1     0     0
St. Louis Cardinals       164     160   0.506     0     0     0
Colorado Rockies          164     161   0.505     1     0     1
Houston Astros            159     164   0.492     0     0     0
Atlanta Braves            156     168   0.481     0     0     0
Florida Marlins           155     168   0.480     0     0     0
San Diego Padres          152     173   0.468     0     0     0
Cincinnati Reds           146     178   0.451     0     0     0
San Francisco Giants      143     181   0.441     0     0     0
Pittsburgh Pirates        135     189   0.417     0     0     0
Washington Nationals      132     191   0.409     0     0     0

Posted
It's not hard to find fault with the job Jim Hendry has done.... he has made some mistakes. He has also shown an ability to evaluate and learn from those mistakes. Right now, I would neither extend his contract nor throw him under the bus. I would evaluate 2009 with hindsight and evaluate whether progress is being made. In spite of the payroll figures and the playoff losses these last 2 years, it's pretty hard to argue with the performance of the major league club. You have to go back to 1936/37 to find a CUBS team that won 182 games over 2 years.

 

 

This is a very reasonable argument.

 

My problem with using the Cubs history as a barometer for progress doesn't mean much because it's a *bad* history in terms of on the field results. Also, in the 2007/2008 playoffs, for whatever reason this was a team that was incapbale of competing for even one game. I'd like to think maybe a healthy Bradley, some power from Font and Hoff from the left side would improve our chances against the RHP pitching that has owned us. Maybe that's just wishful thinking.

 

I do know that I now dread the playoffs, and am disheartened at the lack of performance by the pitching staff along with Ramirez and Soriano in those crucial times.

Posted
It's not hard to find fault with the job Jim Hendry has done.... he has made some mistakes. He has also shown an ability to evaluate and learn from those mistakes. Right now, I would neither extend his contract nor throw him under the bus. I would evaluate 2009 with hindsight and evaluate whether progress is being made. In spite of the payroll figures and the playoff losses these last 2 years, it's pretty hard to argue with the performance of the major league club. You have to go back to 1936/37 to find a CUBS team that won 182 games over 2 years.

 

 

This is a very reasonable argument.

 

My problem with using the Cubs history as a barometer for progress doesn't mean much because it's a *bad* history in terms of on the field results. Also, in the 2007/2008 playoffs, for whatever reason this was a team that was incapbale of competing for even one game. I'd like to think maybe a healthy Bradley, some power from Font and Hoff from the left side would improve our chances against the RHP pitching that has owned us. Maybe that's just wishful thinking.

 

I do know that I now dread the playoffs, and am disheartened at the lack of performance by the pitching staff along with Ramirez and Soriano in those crucial times.

 

Very well, then. Let's use more recent league history for a baromoter. Since the 2003 season, only St Louis (04-05), Atlanta (04-05), and San Francisco (03-04) have been able to amass a win total of 182 or more over a 2 season span, as the CUBS did in 07-08. That's 4 out 16 teams; top quarter.... and none of those other teams has made more playoff appearances than the CUBS !!

 

Now, in fairness, every other team in the league has accomplished that feat more recently than the CUBS' previous occurrance in 36-37 except for San Diego, Colorado & Florida, who have never done it at all. Milwaukee managed to top that mark back in 82-83, but of course, they were not in the NL back then.

 

So what does it all mean ?? Winning 182 games in 2 years ?? Clearly, it's an arbitrary and incorrigible benchmark. Over the last 87 years, (another completely arbitrary parameter) the feat has been accomplished 116 times in the National League by teams not named CUBS out of a possible set of 866 pairs of seasons.... or, in other words, it only happens 13.39% of the time. Now I'm not going to suggest that just being in the top 13% is enough to satisfy me; I do want more, in fact, I want it all !!! But, the issue on the table at the moment is whether or not the CUBS recent performance represents progress.

 

I will make the bold assertion, again, that this is progress for the CUBS, and so long as I can see and measure progress with this team, I'm not going to call for managements' head on a platter. But I am watching.

 

By the way.... just what is a *bad* history, anyway ??

Posted
yeah seriously, this is the first year we have been top 6-7 in payroll. it is really annoying when people say the cubs outspend everyone. (especially white sox fans when they have had a higher payroll every year before now)

 

 

Haven't the Cubs had a top 5 NL payroll for Hendry's entire tenure?

 

No. The Cubs are 3rd in payroll this year, but before that were no higher than 7th. I posted earlier in this thread a breakdown of every year the Cubs have had higher than a $90 million payroll (since 2006) and outside of this year they were 7th once and 8th twice in that time span.

Old-Timey Member
Posted
yeah seriously, this is the first year we have been top 6-7 in payroll. it is really annoying when people say the cubs outspend everyone. (especially white sox fans when they have had a higher payroll every year before now)

 

 

Haven't the Cubs had a top 5 NL payroll for Hendry's entire tenure?

 

No. The Cubs are 3rd in payroll this year, but before that were no higher than 7th. I posted earlier in this thread a breakdown of every year the Cubs have had higher than a $90 million payroll (since 2006) and outside of this year they were 7th once and 8th twice in that time span.

 

I think you missed a part of his question.

Posted
yeah seriously, this is the first year we have been top 6-7 in payroll. it is really annoying when people say the cubs outspend everyone. (especially white sox fans when they have had a higher payroll every year before now)

 

 

Haven't the Cubs had a top 5 NL payroll for Hendry's entire tenure?

 

No. The Cubs are 3rd in payroll this year, but before that were no higher than 7th. I posted earlier in this thread a breakdown of every year the Cubs have had higher than a $90 million payroll (since 2006) and outside of this year they were 7th once and 8th twice in that time span.

 

I think you missed a part of his question.

 

Ah, my mistake. Not sure how I overlooked that both times I read the post.

 

Yeah, we've been third in NL payroll each of the past four years for sure.

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