Post Draft discussion

[abuck1220]

what is this skirt the rules stuff? is playing derosa at 3b even though he isn't the tribe's 3b "skirting the rules?"

 

the reason fukudome, dice-k, etc weren't on a minor league roster was b/c they were immediately good. come on.

[Guest]

I took the gamble of him being on the major league roster out of camp when I drafted him according to the rules of the draft.

 

You seriously drafted him under this premise? Come on.

 

You took him with the pick right before me and I had every intention of drafting him and counting him as one of my rostered major leaguers. I never would have considered him a minor leaguer, just like I never placed Alexei Ramirez in my minor leagues last year when I drafted him.

 

I don't remember Matsuzaka's owner placing him in the minors and I don't remember Fukudome's owner placing him in the minors.

 

Placing him in the minors is just an attempt to skirt the rules, or at least how the rules should be interpreted, IMO.

Why should Scherzer be minor league eligible? He was in the majors last year and will be in the majors to start the season.

 

How is that different from Kawakami's situation? If anything, Max should be less eligible for the minors.

[Guest]

Why should Scherzer be minor league eligible? He was in the majors last year and will be in the majors to start the season.

 

How is that different from Kawakami's situation? If anything, Max should be less eligible for the minors.

 

Scherzer meets minor league eligibility requirements, not to mention he has played in the minor league system. However, I lose a year of exemption due to the amount of games he played at the major league level.

 

I just don't see how foreign professionals should be treated as minor leaguers when they clearly won't be. Not to mention the fact that I can't recall a previous instance where a foreign player was demoted to the minors through the draft. Matsuzaka, Fukudome, Kuroda, Alexei Ramirez, Saito, Fukujima, Johjima, etc....

 

If they were to be sent down, like Kei Igawa was, then I would believe you would be fine to send them to your minor leagues.

 

I suppose Juan will just need to settle this.

[Guest]

I just don't even know how this is a discussion. Here are the relevant rules:

 

II. MINOR LEAGUE ROSTERS

 

A. Roster

Each team will have a minor league roster consisting of up to 10 individuals.

 

B. Eligibility

Player eligibility will be determined by the following qualifications:

1. Players with more than 200 or more major league at-bats in a season are not eligible.

 

2. Players with 10 or more major league pitching starts in a season are not eligible.

3. Players with 25 or more total major league pitching appearances in one season are not eligible.

 

C. Once selected, prospects remain with your team until they are moved to the major league roster, traded, or released.

 

D. Prospects may be traded as part of major league deals

 

E. Prospects will be cap-exempt for three years. A year is a season in which a player has 50 or more plate appearances, 5 pitching starts, or 10 total appearances.

Please tell me which of those rules says that Kawakami can't be a minor leaguer. I'm not skirting the rules - I'm following them to the letter.

 

I am guessing you are also get irate that the Japanese players are considered rookies and are eligible for ROY.

[Guest]

what is this skirt the rules stuff? is playing derosa at 3b even though he isn't the tribe's 3b "skirting the rules?"

 

the reason fukudome, dice-k, etc weren't on a minor league roster was b/c they were immediately good. come on.

 

If you are referring to me, I'm not sure what you are referring to. I've never had Mark DeRosa on my roster.

 

You must be confusing me with someone else.

[Guest]

I just don't even know how this is a discussion. Here are the relevant rules:

 

II. MINOR LEAGUE ROSTERS

 

A. Roster

Each team will have a minor league roster consisting of up to 10 individuals.

 

B. Eligibility

Player eligibility will be determined by the following qualifications:

1. Players with more than 200 or more major league at-bats in a season are not eligible.

 

2. Players with 10 or more major league pitching starts in a season are not eligible.

3. Players with 25 or more total major league pitching appearances in one season are not eligible.

 

C. Once selected, prospects remain with your team until they are moved to the major league roster, traded, or released.

 

D. Prospects may be traded as part of major league deals

 

E. Prospects will be cap-exempt for three years. A year is a season in which a player has 50 or more plate appearances, 5 pitching starts, or 10 total appearances.

Please tell me which of those rules says that Kawakami can't be a minor leaguer. I'm not skirting the rules - I'm following them to the letter.

 

I am guessing you are also get irate that the Japanese players are considered rookies and are eligible for ROY.

 

First of all. I'm not irate. Secondly, a rookie is a rookie and really has nothing to do with this discussion.

 

If Juan declares that foreign all stars who move to the USA and sign major league contracts can be declared minor leaguers, then I won't say another word. But, I'll bet the people who signed Matsuzaka, Fukudome, etc... wish they knew they could tuck their basically guaranteed major leaguer in the minor leagues and been allowed that extra major league roster spot.

[Guest]

I just don't even know how this is a discussion. Here are the relevant rules:

 

II. MINOR LEAGUE ROSTERS

 

A. Roster

Each team will have a minor league roster consisting of up to 10 individuals.

 

B. Eligibility

Player eligibility will be determined by the following qualifications:

1. Players with more than 200 or more major league at-bats in a season are not eligible.

 

2. Players with 10 or more major league pitching starts in a season are not eligible.

3. Players with 25 or more total major league pitching appearances in one season are not eligible.

 

C. Once selected, prospects remain with your team until they are moved to the major league roster, traded, or released.

 

D. Prospects may be traded as part of major league deals

 

E. Prospects will be cap-exempt for three years. A year is a season in which a player has 50 or more plate appearances, 5 pitching starts, or 10 total appearances.

Please tell me which of those rules says that Kawakami can't be a minor leaguer. I'm not skirting the rules - I'm following them to the letter.

 

I am guessing you are also get irate that the Japanese players are considered rookies and are eligible for ROY.

 

First of all. I'm not irate. Secondly, a rookie is a rookie and really has nothing to do with this discussion.

The definition of a rookie is essentially what we're using to determine if someone is eligible to be placed in the minors. It is extremely relevant.

 

If Juan declares that foreign all stars who move to the USA and sign major league contracts can be declared minor leaguers, then I won't say another word. But, I'll bet the people who signed Matsuzaka, Fukudome, etc... wish they knew they could tuck their basically guaranteed major leaguer in the minor leagues and been allowed that extra major league roster spot.

They would have known if they had read the rules.

[Guest]

The rules should probably be clarified for foreign players who sign major league contracts and never set foot in the minor leagues. That would probably resolve the issue.

[abuck1220]

 

Scherzer meets minor league eligibility requirements,

 

so does the japanese guy.

 

 

B. Eligibility

Player eligibility will be determined by the following qualifications:

1. Players with more than 200 or more major league at-bats in a season are not eligible.

 

2. Players with 10 or more major league pitching starts in a season are not eligible.

3. Players with 25 or more total major league pitching appearances in one season are not eligible.

 

not to mention he has played in the minor league system.

 

 

irrelevant. has nothing to do with the minor league roster eligibility requirements.

[Guest]

 

Scherzer meets minor league eligibility requirements,

 

so does the japanese guy.

 

 

B. Eligibility

Player eligibility will be determined by the following qualifications:

1. Players with more than 200 or more major league at-bats in a season are not eligible.

 

2. Players with 10 or more major league pitching starts in a season are not eligible.

3. Players with 25 or more total major league pitching appearances in one season are not eligible.

 

not to mention he has played in the minor league system.

 

 

irrelevant. has nothing to do with the minor league roster eligibility requirements.

 

Like I said above, we'll just have to wait for Juan to make a ruling on it. The precedent has basically been set by the teams who drafted the previous players who came across the pond that they were drafted to be major league starters, and should count towards the major league roster.

 

It's Juan's call. I've made my argument. I'll be satisfied with whatever ruling he makes, but if he allows these guys to count as minor leaguers, I'll have also learned that the next time I snag a guy like Alexei Ramirez, I can just tuck him in my minor leagues and have an extra major league reserve roster spot more than most of the other teams in the league.

[Guest]

Kawakami meets minor league restrictions as of now even if he never throws a pitch in the minors.

 

This would be the same deal as someone picking John Olerud in 198something and him debuting in the majors.

[Guest]

It's Juan's call. I've made my argument. I'll be satisfied with whatever ruling he makes, but if he allows these guys to count as minor leaguers, I'll have also learned that the next time I snag a guy like Alexei Ramirez, I can just tuck him in my minor leagues and have an extra major league reserve roster spot more than most of the other teams in the league.

 

That's not true if you want to reap the benefits of Alexei Ramirez once he's playing in the big leagues.

[Guest]

It's Juan's call. I've made my argument. I'll be satisfied with whatever ruling he makes, but if he allows these guys to count as minor leaguers, I'll have also learned that the next time I snag a guy like Alexei Ramirez, I can just tuck him in my minor leagues and have an extra major league reserve roster spot more than most of the other teams in the league.

 

That's not true if you want to reap the benefits of Alexei Ramirez once he's playing in the big leagues.

 

Actually, it is true. Because I don't have to promote him anytime soon. I can leave him in my minor leagues even though he's playing in the bigs. When an injury comes along, I can promote him then if I wish.

[Guest]

It's Juan's call. I've made my argument. I'll be satisfied with whatever ruling he makes, but if he allows these guys to count as minor leaguers, I'll have also learned that the next time I snag a guy like Alexei Ramirez, I can just tuck him in my minor leagues and have an extra major league reserve roster spot more than most of the other teams in the league.

 

That's not true if you want to reap the benefits of Alexei Ramirez once he's playing in the big leagues.

 

Actually, it is true. Because I don't have to promote him anytime soon. I can leave him in my minor leagues even though he's playing in the bigs. When an injury comes along, I can promote him then if I wish.

Until he gets 200 AB's, that's true. It's part of the benefit of having rookies on your roster.

[shnsajax]

I just don't even know how this is a discussion. Here are the relevant rules:

 

II. MINOR LEAGUE ROSTERS

 

A. Roster

Each team will have a minor league roster consisting of up to 10 individuals.

 

B. Eligibility

Player eligibility will be determined by the following qualifications:

1. Players with more than 200 or more major league at-bats in a season are not eligible.

 

2. Players with 10 or more major league pitching starts in a season are not eligible.

3. Players with 25 or more total major league pitching appearances in one season are not eligible.

 

C. Once selected, prospects remain with your team until they are moved to the major league roster, traded, or released.

 

D. Prospects may be traded as part of major league deals

 

E. Prospects will be cap-exempt for three years. A year is a season in which a player has 50 or more plate appearances, 5 pitching starts, or 10 total appearances.

Please tell me which of those rules says that Kawakami can't be a minor leaguer. I'm not skirting the rules - I'm following them to the letter.

 

I am guessing you are also get irate that the Japanese players are considered rookies and are eligible for ROY.

 

First of all. I'm not irate. Secondly, a rookie is a rookie and really has nothing to do with this discussion.

 

If Juan declares that foreign all stars who move to the USA and sign major league contracts can be declared minor leaguers, then I won't say another word. But, I'll bet the people who signed Matsuzaka, Fukudome, etc... wish they knew they could tuck their basically guaranteed major leaguer in the minor leagues and been allowed that extra major league roster spot.

 

DiceK and Fuku were both high round picks. DiceK was a 1st rounder. I was pretty much counting on them to perform from day one and would have never placed them in the minors if I could. I needed them on my roster. I never thought I could place them in the minors but I never would have either.

[NCCubFan]

what is this skirt the rules stuff? is playing derosa at 3b even though he isn't the tribe's 3b "skirting the rules?"

 

the reason fukudome, dice-k, etc weren't on a minor league roster was b/c they were immediately good. come on.

 

If you are referring to me, I'm not sure what you are referring to. I've never had Mark DeRosa on my roster.

 

You must be confusing me with someone else.

It's me that has DeRosa on my roster. And abuck has it backwards. I plan to play him at 2B (which he has eligibility at based on previous years) even though he was signed by Cleveland to play 3B.

[NCCubFan]

So...then how's the prospect draft going to work? Same order as major league draft, but without the trades? How many rounds? What about the 2009 draft prospects?

The one part of your question I can answer is that 2009 draft prospects are not included. The players have to already be in the Sportsline database. If a prospect appears on the list of free agents he can be drafted.

[abuck1220]

what is this skirt the rules stuff? is playing derosa at 3b even though he isn't the tribe's 3b "skirting the rules?"

 

the reason fukudome, dice-k, etc weren't on a minor league roster was b/c they were immediately good. come on.

 

If you are referring to me, I'm not sure what you are referring to. I've never had Mark DeRosa on my roster.

 

You must be confusing me with someone else.

It's me that has DeRosa on my roster. And abuck has it backwards. I plan to play him at 2B (which he has eligibility at based on previous years) even though he was signed by Cleveland to play 3B.

 

not really my point...i just don't think that tim stashing the japanese guy in his minor league system is any more skirting the rules than using a guy with multiple position eligibility...derosa was just the first guy i thought of.

[NCCubFan]

what is this skirt the rules stuff? is playing derosa at 3b even though he isn't the tribe's 3b "skirting the rules?"

 

the reason fukudome, dice-k, etc weren't on a minor league roster was b/c they were immediately good. come on.

 

If you are referring to me, I'm not sure what you are referring to. I've never had Mark DeRosa on my roster.

 

You must be confusing me with someone else.

It's me that has DeRosa on my roster. And abuck has it backwards. I plan to play him at 2B (which he has eligibility at based on previous years) even though he was signed by Cleveland to play 3B.

 

not really my point...i just don't think that tim stashing the japanese guy in his minor league system is any more skirting the rules than using a guy with multiple position eligibility...derosa was just the first guy i thought of.

I agree with that. Both cases are examples of doing what's within the rules as stated.

[Guest]

He can be put in the minors until he exceeds minor league eligibility. I see your point Brian, but I think Tim has a valid interpretation. We can edit that rule.

 

As far as players having immediate elgibility when they are named starters, that is in keeping with the spirit of the rule and was mutually agreed on by the league a long time ago. That should be added to the rules to make it official.

 

 

I hate that we have these rule confusions but it is difficult to capture every scenario in writing the rules. Thus, these rulings above will stand based on precedent and the wording of the rules.

 

The Sheets scenario is tough because the rules are pretty clear and other managers drafted according to those rules. Therefore, despite the fact that Adam's thinking is in the spirit of the rules, I can't allow him to place Sheets on the injured list. Hopefully he will sign somewhere and it will be a non-issue -otherwise, we'll make a decision at the start of the season.

[rawaction]

I didn't read every single post, but I don't see anything wrong with putting someone with eligibility in the minor leagues...per se. However, we were doing the major league draft with a seperate minor league draft. If we are drafting for our major league rosters, then a player drafted and put into the minor leagues before the season starts should NOT be allowed. It's a way to get an extra player while keeping your roster legal.

 

If someone is going into your minor leagues they should be in the minor league draft.

[cbbryan]

I didn't read every single post, but I don't see anything wrong with putting someone with eligibility in the minor leagues...per se. However, we were doing the major league draft with a seperate minor league draft. If we are drafting for our major league rosters, then a player drafted and put into the minor leagues before the season starts should NOT be allowed. It's a way to get an extra player while keeping your roster legal.

 

If someone is going into your minor leagues they should be in the minor league draft.

 

I would agree with DJ here.

[Guest]

That should have been stated before the draft. My understanding was that we were limiting the pool of players under consideration, not how they should be rostered once picked.

[cbbryan]

That should have been stated before the draft. My understanding was that we were limiting the pool of players under consideration, not how they should be rostered once picked.

 

We had discussed having a minor league draft prior to starting the major league draft. My understanding was that we were not suppose to draft players that would be placed in the minor leagues until the minor league draft.

 

Technically, what you did was within the rules, but I don't think it's in "the spirit of the rules." If Japanese players that are just entering MLB can be stashed on the MiLB roster than they should be treated as prospects and not be available until the prospects draft. It's tough to differentiate between a prospect just added to the pool and a Japanese player just added to the pool. Should the rules be the same for both?

 

Obviously, it's a creative way to keep your roster legal, but I don't know that it's a "fair" thing to do.

[NCCubFan]

I believe what we actually said before the draft started is that somebody that's never played in the major leagues before but is expected to make an opening day roster can be drafted for the major league roster, but must be dropped if he doesn't make the opening day roster. But players couldn't be drafted for the minor league roster until the prospect draft. So that would mean (if I recall the previous discussion correctly) that Tim could draft him now, put him on the major league roster, and be out of luck if he gets sent to the minors to open the season. Alternatively, if nobody drafted him for their major league roster, somebody could have taken him in the prospect draft and put him on the minor league roster.