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Posted

Time posted a really good article about Rick Helling, excerpted from the Joe Torre book. I had never heard this story before, but I definitely gained a lot of respect for Helling.

 

Rick Helling, a 27-year-old righthanded pitcher and the players' representative for the Texas Rangers, stood up at the winter meeting of the Executive Board of the Major League Baseball Players Association and made an announcement. He told his fellow union leaders that steroid use by ballplayers had grown rampant and was corrupting the game.
Helling, though, didn't give up. Each year he would make the same speech at the players association board meeting ... 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001 ... and each year nothing would happen, except that more and more bodies grew unnaturally bigger and the game became twisted into a perversion, its nuances and subtleties blasted away by the naked obsession with power.

http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1881350,00.html

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Posted
each year nothing would happen, except that more and more bodies grew unnaturally bigger and the game became twisted into a perversion, its nuances and subtleties blasted away by the naked obsession with power.

 

What complete nonsense.

Posted
each year nothing would happen, except that more and more bodies grew unnaturally bigger and the game became twisted into a perversion, its nuances and subtleties blasted away by the naked obsession with power.

 

What complete nonsense.

 

Yeah, that's pretty much sensationalistic hacking at it's finest.

  • 2 weeks later...
Posted

hurry up with the bio-engineered arms and legs. i want to see someone throw the ball 160mph and someone hit it 1300 feet while spotting it with their genomic researched eyes.

 

they better get ready for that stuff, too.

Posted
each year nothing would happen, except that more and more bodies grew unnaturally bigger and the game became twisted into a perversion, its nuances and subtleties blasted away by the naked obsession with power.

 

What complete nonsense.

 

 

Why? The steroid era was a joke and make a mockey of the game and it's records.

Posted
each year nothing would happen, except that more and more bodies grew unnaturally bigger and the game became twisted into a perversion, its nuances and subtleties blasted away by the naked obsession with power.

 

What complete nonsense.

 

 

Why? The steroid era was a joke and make a mockey of the game and it's records.

 

Well, first of all, no it didn't.

 

Secondly, "it's nuances and subtleties blasted away by the naked obsession with power" is what I said before, complete nonsense. What nuances and subtleties were ruined? It's romantical tripe yearning for something to return that never went away, or even worse, never existed.

Posted
each year nothing would happen, except that more and more bodies grew unnaturally bigger and the game became twisted into a perversion, its nuances and subtleties blasted away by the naked obsession with power.

 

What complete nonsense.

 

 

Why? The steroid era was a joke and make a mockey of the game and it's records.

 

Is that why no one cares about baseball anymore? :D

 

Look, I know the 'era' makes it difficult to compare current players to past players. However, that hasn't ruing the NFL, NBA, etc. Mr. Tiger, in the post above this one, is right per usual.

Posted

I'm with the Voice of Reason on this one.

 

To say that MLB was not negatively impacted by PED's is admitting that your head is buried in the sand.

Posted
I'm with the Voice of Reason on this one.

 

To say that MLB was not negatively impacted by PED's is admitting that your head is buried in the sand.

 

Sure it was negatively impacted. No one is denying that. What people are refuting is this stupid statement:

 

"each year nothing would happen, except that more and more bodies grew unnaturally bigger and the game became twisted into a perversion, its nuances and subtleties blasted away by the naked obsession with power."

 

That's such over the top hyperbole it's ridiculous. No one is saying steroids weren't bad, but for some reason we like to pretend that this era, out of every one that baseball has went through, is the one that 'killed the nuances' or the one that really 'hurt' baseball.

 

Yes, during the nineties there were, if not a majority, at least a very large minority of players taking PED's of some kind; but this isn't anything new. Players have taken upper pills, or greenies, since the mid 1900's - but that didn't destroy the game? In the early 1900 players threw spitballs, players sharpened their cleats to slide into bases, brawls on the field were much more common place than today, and oh yeah - minorities were not allowed to play - but that racist, violent era didn't 'destroy' baseball?

 

And people will argue that this is different, because people broke records doing this form of cheating. That's nonsense, too. You don't think some players who are on the career wins list or era list probably threw spitballs? Hell, Ty Cobb was the very first man elected into the National Baseball Hall Of Fame and yet he was probably one of the worst violent racists in his time. But things like this didn't 'destroy' the subtleties and nuances of the game? It's ridiculous.

 

Yes, the steroid era was bad, it was a negative. But let's not pretend that it destroyed the 'nuances' and 'subtleties' of the game that somehow miraculously survived through every other form of cheating, deceit, and negativity that baseball has been through.

Posted
each year nothing would happen, except that more and more bodies grew unnaturally bigger and the game became twisted into a perversion, its nuances and subtleties blasted away by the naked obsession with power.

 

What complete nonsense.

 

 

Why? The steroid era was a joke and make a mockey of the game and it's records.

 

Well, first of all, no it didn't.

 

Secondly, "it's nuances and subtleties blasted away by the naked obsession with power" is what I said before, complete nonsense. What nuances and subtleties were ruined? It's romantical tripe yearning for something to return that never went away, or even worse, never existed.

 

Well, first of all, it did. Take Brady Anderson as just one example. The graphs speak for themselves. His stats are a joke.

 

http://simononsports.blogspot.com/2009/02/numbers-on-steroids-brady-anderson.html

 

Brady Anderson looked like a player who was 180 pounds soaking wet. He was a runt leadoff-esque centerfielder for the Orioles who couldn't get the ball out of the ball park and then... 50 home runs? That seems a bit questionable so let's take a look at his numbers to see how much the rates mightily changed in his career.

 

Averages Say: His prime didn't start until 28 and it ended at 36? Hmm, that seems odd.

 

At Bats Per Home Run Says: At 27 it was 1 home run per 130 at bats and then at 28 it was 1 home run per 30 at bats. Hmm...

 

Explaining It Away

 

Sometimes players are just late bloomers right? Maybe he never hit the gym ever in his life before 1992? Also, 1992 was the first season he got consistent at bats and was a day to day starter, perhaps that boosted his confidence and helped him get in a home run groove? And then some years you just have career years that can't be matched. So in 96 when he hit 50 home runs, it was more fluke than having any true cause.

 

The Verdict

 

In Brady Anderson's first 4 years he finished with a total of 10 home runs then all of a sudden he hit 21 home runs. And to further that even more he hit Hell he only had 53 steals in those first 4 years, the same total he had in his breakout 1992 campaign. And can anyone really believe that in a 15 year career when he finished with 210 total home runs that 50 came in one season, and that was just a complete fluke? So...

 

If it Walks Like a Duck and Quacks Like a Duck... Than It's Probably a Duck

Posted
Yes, Brady Anderson hit a bunch of home runs one year, therefore baseball for the last 10-15 years was a half step above blurnsball.

 

That was just one example of many.

 

The greatest legitimate home run hitter of all time, Hank Aaron, never hit 50 home runs in a season but Brady Anderson did. I guess you're right, the steroid era didn't skew the stats at all.

 

I realize it's tough to admit that the baseball you have watched most of your life has been tainted by steroids but it is what it is.

Posted
Yes, Brady Anderson hit a bunch of home runs one year, therefore baseball for the last 10-15 years was a half step above blurnsball.

 

That was just one example of many.

 

The greatest legitimate home run hitter of all time, Hank Aaron, never hit 50 home runs in a season but Brady Anderson did. I guess you're right, the steroid era didn't skew the stats at all.

 

I realize it's tough to admit that the baseball you have watched most of your life has been tainted by steroids but it is what it is.

 

skewed and tainted are two different concepts. I don't think anyone is arguing that the stats are markedly different in the steroid era. what we're arguing is that those skewed stats somehow compromised the game forever

Posted
Yes, Brady Anderson hit a bunch of home runs one year, therefore baseball for the last 10-15 years was a half step above blurnsball.

 

That was just one example of many.

 

The greatest legitimate home run hitter of all time, Hank Aaron, never hit 50 home runs in a season but Brady Anderson did. I guess you're right, the steroid era didn't skew the stats at all.

 

I realize it's tough to admit that the baseball you have watched most of your life has been tainted by steroids but it is what it is.

And Hank Aaron took greenies, so was he really legit?

Posted
Yes, Brady Anderson hit a bunch of home runs one year, therefore baseball for the last 10-15 years was a half step above blurnsball.

 

That was just one example of many.

 

The greatest legitimate home run hitter of all time, Hank Aaron, never hit 50 home runs in a season but Brady Anderson did. I guess you're right, the steroid era didn't skew the stats at all.

 

I realize it's tough to admit that the baseball you have watched most of your life has been tainted by steroids but it is what it is.

And Hank Aaron took greenies, so was he really legit?

 

Don't bother.

Posted
Yes, Brady Anderson hit a bunch of home runs one year, therefore baseball for the last 10-15 years was a half step above blurnsball.

 

That was just one example of many.

 

The greatest legitimate home run hitter of all time, Hank Aaron, never hit 50 home runs in a season but Brady Anderson did. I guess you're right, the steroid era didn't skew the stats at all.

 

I realize it's tough to admit that the baseball you have watched most of your life has been tainted by steroids but it is what it is.

And Hank Aaron took greenies, so was he really legit?

 

Jaywalking and armed robbery are both violations of the law. Are they both equally bad?

 

Evidently greenies don't help you hit home runs or maybe Hank Aaron would have had as many 50 home runs seasons as the great Brady Anderson.

Posted
Yes, Brady Anderson hit a bunch of home runs one year, therefore baseball for the last 10-15 years was a half step above blurnsball.

 

That was just one example of many.

 

The greatest legitimate home run hitter of all time, Hank Aaron, never hit 50 home runs in a season but Brady Anderson did. I guess you're right, the steroid era didn't skew the stats at all.

 

I realize it's tough to admit that the baseball you have watched most of your life has been tainted by steroids but it is what it is.

And Hank Aaron took greenies, so was he really legit?

 

Jaywalking and armed robbery are both violations of the law. Are they both equally bad?

 

Evidently greenies don't help you hit home runs or maybe Hank Aaron would have had as many 50 home runs seasons as the great Brady Anderson.

 

Brady Anderson had one amazing year in a career of mediocrity. Boo-hoo.

Posted
Yes, Brady Anderson hit a bunch of home runs one year, therefore baseball for the last 10-15 years was a half step above blurnsball.

 

That was just one example of many.

 

The greatest legitimate home run hitter of all time, Hank Aaron, never hit 50 home runs in a season but Brady Anderson did. I guess you're right, the steroid era didn't skew the stats at all.

 

I realize it's tough to admit that the baseball you have watched most of your life has been tainted by steroids but it is what it is.

And Hank Aaron took greenies, so was he really legit?

 

Jaywalking and armed robbery are both violations of the law. Are they both equally bad?

 

Evidently greenies don't help you hit home runs or maybe Hank Aaron would have had as many 50 home runs seasons as the great Brady Anderson.

 

Brady Anderson had one amazing year in a career of mediocrity. Boo-hoo.

 

and McGwire "saved baseball" by hitting 70 home runs while juiced up to look like the Incredible Hulk which caused a jealous Barry Bonds to illegally bulk up. Not to be outdone by other "heroes" of the game like ARod, Pudge, Juan Gone, Tejada, Palmeiro, Clemens, etc., etc.

Posted
Yes, Brady Anderson hit a bunch of home runs one year, therefore baseball for the last 10-15 years was a half step above blurnsball.

 

That was just one example of many.

 

The greatest legitimate home run hitter of all time, Hank Aaron, never hit 50 home runs in a season but Brady Anderson did. I guess you're right, the steroid era didn't skew the stats at all.

 

I realize it's tough to admit that the baseball you have watched most of your life has been tainted by steroids but it is what it is.

And Hank Aaron took greenies, so was he really legit?

 

Jaywalking and armed robbery are both violations of the law. Are they both equally bad?

 

Evidently greenies don't help you hit home runs or maybe Hank Aaron would have had as many 50 home runs seasons as the great Brady Anderson.

 

Brady Anderson had one amazing year in a career of mediocrity. Boo-hoo.

 

and McGwire "saved baseball" by hitting 70 home runs while juiced up to look like the Incredible Hulk which caused a jealous Barry Bonds to illegally bulk up. Not to be outdone by other "heroes" of the game like ARod, Pudge, Juan Gone, Tejada, Palmeiro, Clemens, etc., etc.

 

And...?

 

What was lost?

 

What was damaged?

Posted

I hate to offend the sensibilities of guys like Bob Costas and George Will but the big home run years of Sosa / McGuire / Bonds were pretty darn cool. Some of my best times as a Cubs fan were during that '98 home run chase waiting for Sammy to hit one and watching the score board to see if Big Mac had matched.

 

Admittedly it is just as well it is over and things are back to normal but it did make for some good entertainment before all the steroids stuff came out, and that's what MLB is supposed to be, entertainment, right?

 

You can say the stats and how they compare to other generations need to be debated, but to pretend it wasn't a fun thing to watch and that we should all just erase it from our memories like it didn't happen is pretty silly.

Posted
Yes, Brady Anderson hit a bunch of home runs one year, therefore baseball for the last 10-15 years was a half step above blurnsball.

 

That was just one example of many.

 

The greatest legitimate home run hitter of all time, Hank Aaron, never hit 50 home runs in a season but Brady Anderson did. I guess you're right, the steroid era didn't skew the stats at all.

 

I realize it's tough to admit that the baseball you have watched most of your life has been tainted by steroids but it is what it is.

And Hank Aaron took greenies, so was he really legit?

 

Jaywalking and armed robbery are both violations of the law. Are they both equally bad?

 

Evidently greenies don't help you hit home runs or maybe Hank Aaron would have had as many 50 home runs seasons as the great Brady Anderson.

 

Brady Anderson had one amazing year in a career of mediocrity. Boo-hoo.

 

and McGwire "saved baseball" by hitting 70 home runs while juiced up to look like the Incredible Hulk which caused a jealous Barry Bonds to illegally bulk up. Not to be outdone by other "heroes" of the game like ARod, Pudge, Juan Gone, Tejada, Palmeiro, Clemens, etc., etc.

 

And...?

 

What was lost?

 

What was damaged?

 

The integrity of the game.

 

A fair evaluation of the non-juicers during that era who are guilty by association.

Posted

It's all based on subjective comparisons to begin with.

 

And "the integrity of the game" has been shaken plenty of times before. "Miracuously," the game has survived, as it's clearly doing by how it's thriving right now. Do you really want to sit around and whine about what happened in the past? For how long? For what purpose?

Posted

 

The integrity of the game.

 

A fair evaluation of the non-juicers during that era who are guilty by association.

 

The point is, though (as mojopin pointed out) this isn't the first time. Why wasn't the integrity destroyed with greenies? Maybe Aaron wouldn't have lasted the full season (or as many seasons) without the aid of an upper pill. And thus would not have hit as many homers. And how is that fair to the evaluation of players in that time period who did not use uppers?

 

 

Or what about players who threw spit balls? Or used other forms of cheating (Pine tar, hidden ball tricks, etc). Or how about the fact that until 1947 minorities were held out of major league baseball - therefore the best talent was not on display. Only teh best WHITE talent. How did that not destroy the integrity?

 

The point is this; baseball has gone through things like this before, made it so the same mistakes won't be made again, and moved on. That's what we need to do here. We've pointed out the problem, put in place rules to prevent it, and now it's time to move on. Nothing can be gained by sitting here and continuing to complain about how horrid of a time it was.

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