and this is why we shouldn't have traded jason marquis

[17 Seconds]

If I were to rank those players, I'd put Bradley number 1 (by a fairly wide margin).

 

90 games of a guy with an .827 career OPS is better than DeRosa and Wood by a "wide margin"? I don't know aobut that. Even if he OPSs like .900 next year in 90 games I still wouldn't say that.

 

1 - A Fontenot/Miles platoon is going to be any worse than what DeRosa would give us

 

Well I think the best case scenario we can realistically hope for is that they match DeRosa's production, but that's not the only issue. Bradley is a lock to get hurt. With DeRosa, all that would have meant is more Fontenot in the lineup in place of Bradley (with DeRosa going to right). Now since we're using Fontenot, when Bradley goes down it's suddenly more at-bats for much crappier hitters. That's the main loss of trading away DeRosa and that's why I think the combo of trading DeRosa/signing Bradley was pretty dumb.

 

I guess that's just a matter of how you look at it. I could just as easily argue that Wood doesn't have a great track record either when it comes to injuries or that DeRosa probably isn't going to repeat his numbers from last year or that Fontenot was actually better than DeRosa last season (granted in fewer at bats). I don't want to come off sounding like I blindly support every move, but I'm just failing to see how we are so much worse right now than we would be if we kept Wood, DeRosa, Marquis, and Pie.

 

Even if DeRosa goes back to his .800ish OPS that he put up the previous 2 seasons, that could still end up being more valuable than Bradley.

 

I just don't see how you can look at who left and who came in and say we aren't worse off. At best it's a wash, but I don't really see that. The only significant player we brought in was Bradley.

[shnsajax]

But hey, next Saturday, the Cubs ARE going to watching Kris Benson workout. So...we have that...at least.

 

More importantly, is Anna Benson going to be their?

[Mephistopheles]

I could just as easily argue that Wood doesn't have a great track record either when it comes to injuries ...

 

you're wrong and naive, so drop it.

[umpunk]

I could just as easily argue that Wood doesn't have a great track record either when it comes to injuries ...

 

you're wrong and naive, so drop it.

Oh yeah, perhaps I just imagined the injuries in 1999, 2004, 2005, 2006, and 2007 to Wood. No offense here, but there are plenty of areas to blast holes in my argument (Fontenot has never shown he can do it for a full season, Bradley very likely to get injured, Pie has a ton more upside that what we got), but to try and say Wood doesn't have an injury history (or that it doesn't matter because he managed to stay healthy last season) is very weak.

[Mephistopheles]

You seem to be oblivious to the facts.

[Warpticon]

2 - That Gathright is horrible and Pie is somehow going to morph into Willie Mays. Both play great defense, and Gathright (shockingly) is the better hitter right now.

 

Really?

 

You seem to be oblivious to the facts.

 

You seem to be a walking contradiction.

[cubswin2009]

We should have went out and gotten Khalil Greene. Then we would have been in good position.

[umpunk]

You seem to be oblivious to the facts.

I'm not sure what's more stunning, the fact that I am having to debate the point that Kerry Wood has had a very sketchy injury history or the fact that nobody else finds it the least bit strange that the debate is occurring - I mean if that doesn't sum up northsidebaseball.com, I don't know what does.

[17 Seconds]

You seem to be oblivious to the facts.

I'm not sure what's more stunning, the fact that I am having to debate the point that Kerry Wood has had a very sketchy injury history or the fact that nobody else finds it the least bit strange that the debate is occurring - I mean if that doesn't sum up northsidebaseball.com, I don't know what does.

 

a) very few people here like meph (no offense, meph). i think nobody is replying because most people have him on ignore. that or they are like me and they have no idea what the hell meph is saying and they don't feel like looking back through this thread to understand what the hell he is talking about

 

b) if this place sucks so bad, why are you here? i'm not trying to be a dick, i just dont understand why people post here and then complain about how bad the site sucks

[Mephistopheles]

very few have me blocked because they know what i bring to the table.

 

The point is that Kerry Wood's injury problems from 2004-07 wouldn't have prevented him from being a short reliever. He would only experience problems after a certain amount of work, not necessarily from the start. In fact in 2005 he was perfectly fine relieving, but the Cubs decided to try and make him start again for the next season. He could never get anywhere, so finally the Cubs decided to let him just pitch in relief. Really the injury problems for him since TJ have very little impact on his likelihood of being healthy enough to be a closer. The TJ injury itself is completely irrelevant. Really, Kerry Wood is as reliable health-wise as any other short reliever, and probably more so than the guys we're replacing him with: Kevin Gregg and Carlos Marmol.

[17 Seconds]

very few have me blocked because they know what i bring to the table.

 

right

 

as for the post itself, i see what you were saying now. you should have just said that instead of offering cryptic "you're wrong and can't accept facts" posts.

[17 Seconds]

Man, the dudes on OH really want to fellate Felix

 

When you think of the cieling for both Pie and Olson, you HAVE to make this trade if you're AM. Who is more valuable to a team trying to make the playoffs: a #5 starter/swingman with a 4.50 ERA... or a young 5-tool outfielder who plays every day, hits in the two-hole and bats .290 with 20 HRs and 30 stolen bases each year?

 

It's a no-brainer. This was a brilliant trade.

 

man this sucks we just traded corey hart for jason marquis

[cubsfan26]

I guess that's just a matter of how you look at it. I could just as easily argue that Wood doesn't have a great track record either when it comes to injuries or that DeRosa probably isn't going to repeat his numbers from last year or that Fontenot was actually better than DeRosa last season (granted in fewer at bats). I don't want to come off sounding like I blindly support every move, but I'm just failing to see how we are so much worse right now than we would be if we kept Wood, DeRosa, Marquis, and Pie.

 

Pay no attention to some of these people, they don't know how some of these moves will work out any better then you do. When a GM makes some questionable moves, and people are unsure if the team is better, they will often put their thoughts more towards the negative side. There's no doubt getting rid of Wood, DeRosa(two fan favorites), and Marquis is questionable. Especially when you replace them with a injury prone Milton Bradley, unproven player in Mike Fontenot(and a subpar player in Miles), a ok/solid pitcher in Kevin Gregg and most likely a unnamed starting pitcher who could be really good or a simliar pitcher to Marquis. So Hendry has put his a$$ on the line a bit. He could either look like a genius or a idiot by this time next year(right now people are leaning towards idiot). But If Bradley plays 120 plus games with a 900 plus OPS, Kevin Gregg gets the same results he has over the last few seasons, our rotation stays one of the best in the NL and Fontenot/Miles match DeRosa production. All of the sudden people will be saying well Hendry did a pretty good job.

 

 

 

I learned a while ago, that freaking out offseason moves, and trying to judge if the team is better on paper then it was a year ago is meaningless. Last year at this time, very few thought the Cubs would be better then 07, and most people were saying the same type of stuff. I remember reading Lilly/Marquis will regress alot, Dempster in the rotation over Marshall also makes us worse. Kerry Wood is unlikely to stay healthy for a fullseason, and then were stuck with just Marmol and Howry. Fukudome will help, but he probably won't be any better then Floyd/Murton were in 07. Theriot will regress(we need Khalil Greene!), Pie will be lucky to match Jacque Jones 07 numbers and so on. Obviously some were right about a few of those things, but for the most part people were way off. Many fans were predicting 82-88 wins, and very few fans had the Cubs winning 90 plus. So lets see what happens next year, baseball seasons are often very unpredictable.

 

 

very few people here like meph (no offense, meph). i think nobody is replying because most people have him on ignore. that or they are like me and they have no idea what the hell meph is saying and they don't feel like looking back through this thread to understand what the hell he is talking about

 

Yeah I think people either put him on ignore or just ignore most of the things he says. I have noticed he does have a few followers on here, but for the most part it's always the same old thing with meph. The act got old a long time ago, and maybe if he stopped pretending like he's smarter then everyone else, he could bring something to the table. Starting this dumb thread about keeping Marquis, is just another reason to ignore him. But I guess I shouldn't talk. I'm sure people ignore half of the things I say on this board to.

[A New Era]

Man, the dudes on OH really want to fellate Felix

 

The O's have Izturis now don't they? . . . . . . I think you know the punchline.

[Peoriaman]

very few have me blocked because they know what i bring to the table.

 

The point is that Kerry Wood's injury problems from 2004-07 wouldn't have prevented him from being a short reliever. He would only experience problems after a certain amount of work, not necessarily from the start. In fact in 2005 he was perfectly fine relieving, but the Cubs decided to try and make him start again for the next season. He could never get anywhere, so finally the Cubs decided to let him just pitch in relief. Really the injury problems for him since TJ have very little impact on his likelihood of being healthy enough to be a closer. The TJ injury itself is completely irrelevant. Really, Kerry Wood is as reliable health-wise as any other short reliever, and probably more so than the guys we're replacing him with: Kevin Gregg and Carlos Marmol.

 

 

Don't forget his month absence in 2008. Did the blister problem come from underuse?

[umpunk]

very few have me blocked because they know what i bring to the table.

 

The point is that Kerry Wood's injury problems from 2004-07 wouldn't have prevented him from being a short reliever. He would only experience problems after a certain amount of work, not necessarily from the start. In fact in 2005 he was perfectly fine relieving, but the Cubs decided to try and make him start again for the next season. He could never get anywhere, so finally the Cubs decided to let him just pitch in relief. Really the injury problems for him since TJ have very little impact on his likelihood of being healthy enough to be a closer. The TJ injury itself is completely irrelevant. Really, Kerry Wood is as reliable health-wise as any other short reliever, and probably more so than the guys we're replacing him with: Kevin Gregg and Carlos Marmol.

 

Still a very weak argument - the "injury problems since TJ" that you are so quick to dismiss have been a rotator cuff tear, blisters, and shoulder and elbow pain. I'm not sure how those would have, "little impact on the likelihood of being healthy enough to close." The best argument you could make is that he is less likely to get injured as a closer than he is as a starter. Which, of course, goes with out saying - any player is going to be less likely to be injured if you play him less. What you can't say is that Wood isn't a health risk as a closer when compared to other closers. Clearly, Gregg and Marmol (from a health perspective) are more reliable and less risky - neither one have had major injuries, let a lone multiple ones that have caused them to miss time in numerous seasons (as far as I know anyway).

 

When a GM makes some questionable moves, and people are unsure if the team is better, they will often put their thoughts more towards the negative side. There's no doubt getting rid of Wood, DeRosa(two fan favorites), and Marquis is questionable.

 

I couldn't agree more. Which is my original point, if you viewed the glass as half full the moves don't look that bad. What gets me is people just want to dismiss everything has "horrible" and refuse to see the counterargument. Yeah, I agree replacing a relatively known quality in DeRosa (who won't be as good as last year) with the unknown of Fontenot/Miles is "risky". I also think there is a decent chance Fontenot will put up better numbers than DeRosa this year. I think Bradley, if healthy (major if), will be one of the top right fielders in the National League. Yeah I didn't want to lose Wood or giving up our insurance policy in Marquis, but given the financial situation I certainly understand where Hendry is coming from.

[DiamondMind]

and the old meph rears its head

[Blue W]

Why are this guy's personal feelings about a trade sufficient to merit their own thread in transactions? Marry it with the actual transaction thread.

 

+1 on ignore