Marquis Rumors

[BillyBuck22]

From http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

 

The Rockies are apparently debating whether to sign Tim Redding or trade for Jason Marquis. Reports in the Denver Post suggest Redding is the top target.

 

Mets Starting Pitching Update

By Tim Dierkes [December 19 at 2:28pm CST]

SI.com's Jon Heyman has the latest on the Mets' quest to add two starting pitchers.

 

Heyman says the Mets are waiting for Scott Boras to get Mark Teixeira signed before seriously engaging for Derek Lowe and Oliver Perez, their top two targets (in that order). Randy Wolf is the third choice if the Boras clients fall through. Heyman suggests Lowe's asking price is $66MM over four years.

 

The Mets are also looking to add a back-end type to soak up innings. This group includes Freddy Garcia, Tim Redding, and Jason Marquis.

[Cubswin11]

I wouldn't trade Marquis unless we were getting good value back like a mid/high level prospect or a meaningful/significant piece to the MLB team, or his contract is in the way of signing Bradley/Abreu/Dunn, or to make a trade for Peavy (likely no happening anymore). I would just rather keep Marquis unless 1 of those are the situations. Marquis really isn't that bad and I think we are a better team with Marquis in the rotation and Marshall/Guzman/Samardzija/Gaudin in the bullpen instead of one of those guys starting. Plus Marquis will at least be a type B FA next year and with a good/decent season he could maybe be a type A, Bob Freakin Howry was a Type A this offseason. Unless we could get Hawpe or Street for Marquis+ a player or two, there really isn't anyone on the Rockies that we could realistically get/I am interested in.

[Wabasha31]

Plus Marquis will at least be a type B FA next year and with a good/decent season he could maybe be a type A, Bob Freakin Howry was a Type A this offseason.

 

Marquis as a type A free agent would be a bad thing. There is no way you'd offer him arbitration. He'd likely take it and get $10 million +.

 

I understand your overall point, though. I've gotten the impression that Marquis would likely have to be moved for the Cubs to add a major piece.

[The Other 15]

Plus Marquis will at least be a type B FA next year and with a good/decent season he could maybe be a type A, Bob Freakin Howry was a Type A this offseason.

 

Marquis as a type A free agent would be a bad thing. There is no way you'd offer him arbitration. He'd likely take it and get $10 million +.

 

I understand your overall point, though. I've gotten the impression that Marquis would likely have to be moved for the Cubs to add a major piece.

Please explain how a SP, coming off of a season where he earns Type A status, accepts arbitration for a one year contract?

[Wrigley Rat]

Plus Marquis will at least be a type B FA next year and with a good/decent season he could maybe be a type A, Bob Freakin Howry was a Type A this offseason.

 

Marquis as a type A free agent would be a bad thing. There is no way you'd offer him arbitration. He'd likely take it and get $10 million +.

 

I understand your overall point, though. I've gotten the impression that Marquis would likely have to be moved for the Cubs to add a major piece.

Please explain how a SP, coming off of a season where he earns Type A status, accepts arbitration for a one year contract?

I think it comes down to the Cubs not wanting to take the chance of him accepting arbitration and being on the hook for his salary. Which is what happened with Kerry Wood this year (I think K.W. would have accepted arbitration to stay with the Cubs at $10 million for 2009 - I know that he's a closer though). Our payroll for 2010 is one of the major sticking points to trading for Jake Peavy, and offering arbitration to Marquis when we would most likely be looking to move salary would not be a wise financial move.

[Outshined_One]

Plus Marquis will at least be a type B FA next year and with a good/decent season he could maybe be a type A, Bob Freakin Howry was a Type A this offseason.

 

Marquis as a type A free agent would be a bad thing. There is no way you'd offer him arbitration. He'd likely take it and get $10 million +.

 

I understand your overall point, though. I've gotten the impression that Marquis would likely have to be moved for the Cubs to add a major piece.

Please explain how a SP, coming off of a season where he earns Type A status, accepts arbitration for a one year contract?

I think it comes down to the Cubs not wanting to take the chance of him accepting arbitration and being on the hook for his salary. Which is what happened with Kerry Wood this year (I think K.W. would have accepted arbitration to stay with the Cubs at $10 million for 2009 - I know that he's a closer though). Our payroll for 2010 is one of the major sticking points to trading for Jake Peavy, and offering arbitration to Marquis when we would most likely be looking to move salary would not be a wise financial move.

 

Plus, would we really want another year of Marquis? He'll be on the wrong side of 30 after next season and I have trouble seeing him maintaining his recent production.

[Wabasha31]

Meh. The Elias rankings don't always make sense. Just because a player is type A doesn't mean he had a great season. Marquis' ability to eat up innings may qualify him. An argument could be made that the baseball economy is headed towards a pitcher like that making eight figures. In that case, you'd be correct. For my money, I'd still want more.

 

If Marquis is type A, I don't think the Cubs offer.

[The Other 15]

This discussion is based on a SP, finishing his 3 year contract with a season comparable to say something like Garlands last season with the White Sox. I don't find that out of the realm of possibility. Am I to understand that you guys think a player like that, at his age, would possibly accept arbitration? I'd like to see an example where such a guy did. Relievers with injury histories and starters with history of being reliable (though un-spactacular) can not be compared.

 

I'm sorry, but if Marquis just repeats last season, he will get a multiple year contract and would be a fool to accept arbitration.

[Abe Frohman]

I wonder what it would take to pry Brad Hawpe from the Rockies? Holy LSU 2000 CWS championship reunion!

[TruffleShuffle]

howry was type A because he was very good from 2005-07. i don't see any way that marquis could be classified as being among the top 20 percent of starting pitchers in major league baseball. he'll probably squeeze into type b.

[davearm2]

howry was type A because he was very good from 2005-07. i don't see any way that marquis could be classified as being among the top 20 percent of starting pitchers in major league baseball. he'll probably squeeze into type b.

2005 and 2006 were not included in the calculations that led to Howry being a Type A. They only use the most recent 2 years.

[davearm2]

This discussion is based on a SP, finishing his 3 year contract with a season comparable to say something like Garlands last season with the White Sox. I don't find that out of the realm of possibility. Am I to understand that you guys think a player like that, at his age, would possibly accept arbitration? I'd like to see an example where such a guy did. Relievers with injury histories and starters with history of being reliable (though un-spactacular) can not be compared.

 

I'm sorry, but if Marquis just repeats last season, he will get a multiple year contract and would be a fool to accept arbitration.

If some team out there thought paying Marquis $10M to pitch for one year (let alone multiple years) was a good idea, then Hendry wouldn't be having such difficulty trading him.

 

Assuming he repeats last season, it's hard to imagine a market that doesn't exist now would suddenly materialize a year later.

[The Other 15]

This discussion is based on a SP, finishing his 3 year contract with a season comparable to say something like Garlands last season with the White Sox. I don't find that out of the realm of possibility. Am I to understand that you guys think a player like that, at his age, would possibly accept arbitration? I'd like to see an example where such a guy did. Relievers with injury histories and starters with history of being reliable (though un-spactacular) can not be compared.

 

I'm sorry, but if Marquis just repeats last season, he will get a multiple year contract and would be a fool to accept arbitration.

If some team out there thought paying Marquis $10M to pitch for one year (let alone multiple years) was a good idea, then Hendry wouldn't be having such difficulty trading him.

 

Assuming he repeats last season, it's hard to imagine a market that doesn't exist now would suddenly materialize a year later.

Show me a previous example of a 32 year old starting pitcher, without injury concerns, accepting arbitration. It's really that hard for you to imagine a market for Marquis? Please now. Do some homework on starting pitchers contracts and tell me there won't be a market for a guy like Marquis. That's gibberish. Nobody is saying he'll get the same contract, but he will get a much better offer than a 1 year deal like arbitration.

[DiamondMind]

Can we please not just give away Marquis? He has value.

[Outshined_One]

Show me a previous example of a 32 year old starting pitcher, without injury concerns, accepting arbitration. It's really that hard for you to imagine a market for Marquis? Please now. Do some homework on starting pitchers contracts and tell me there won't be a market for a guy like Marquis. That's gibberish. Nobody is saying he'll get the same contract, but he will get a much better offer than a 1 year deal like arbitration.

 

We have to see how the free agent market shakes out and how the economy treats teams over the next year. Teams have shown a willingness to spend money so far on bigger names like Burnett and Sabathia, but we haven't seen how this market is going to treat lower level guys like Paul Byrd, Jon Garland, and Randy Wolf.

 

Hell, considering the Mets' owner reportedly lost $300m, a 1 year deal worth $10m might not be all too bad for Marquis come next season.

[WrigleyField 22]

The only reason moving Marquis would have been good was to free salary for Peavy. If we aren't getting Peavy there's really no point. I'll take the depth, thanks. Thats assuming you can't get fair value for him. But dumping him would be stupid.

[Guest]

wabasha31? Wow! Where you been?

[davearm2]

This discussion is based on a SP, finishing his 3 year contract with a season comparable to say something like Garlands last season with the White Sox. I don't find that out of the realm of possibility. Am I to understand that you guys think a player like that, at his age, would possibly accept arbitration? I'd like to see an example where such a guy did. Relievers with injury histories and starters with history of being reliable (though un-spactacular) can not be compared.

 

I'm sorry, but if Marquis just repeats last season, he will get a multiple year contract and would be a fool to accept arbitration.

If some team out there thought paying Marquis $10M to pitch for one year (let alone multiple years) was a good idea, then Hendry wouldn't be having such difficulty trading him.

 

Assuming he repeats last season, it's hard to imagine a market that doesn't exist now would suddenly materialize a year later.

Show me a previous example of a 32 year old starting pitcher, without injury concerns, accepting arbitration. It's really that hard for you to imagine a market for Marquis? Please now. Do some homework on starting pitchers contracts and tell me there won't be a market for a guy like Marquis. That's gibberish. Nobody is saying he'll get the same contract, but he will get a much better offer than a 1 year deal like arbitration.

Here is the homework you asked for. Signings of similar pitchers last year (or a few from two years ago).

 

Paul Byrd rhp 2 years/$14.25M

Shawn Chacon rhp 1 year/$2M

Shawn Estes lhp 1 year/$0.55M

Josh Fogg rhp 1 year/$1M

Mark Hendrickson lhp 1 year/$1.5M

Livan Hernandez rhp 1 year/$5M

Orlando Hernandez rhp 2 years/$12M

Jason Jennings rhp 1 year/$4M

Jon Lieber rhp 1 year/$3.5M

Kyle Lohse rhp 1 year/$4.25M

John Patterson rhp 1 year/$0.85M

Odalis Perez lhp 1 year/$0.85M

Tim Redding rhp 1 year/$1M

Mark Redman lhp 1 year/$1M

Kenny Rogers lhp 1 year/$8M

Kip Wells rhp 1 year/$3.1M

Randy Wolf lhp 1 year/$4.75M

 

Offering Marquis arbitration would lock him in at around $10M. He'd be foolish not to take that.

[SweetZombieJesus]

Paul Byrd rhp 2 years/$14.25M

Shawn Chacon rhp 1 year/$2M

Shawn Estes lhp 1 year/$0.55M

Josh Fogg rhp 1 year/$1M

Mark Hendrickson lhp 1 year/$1.5M

Livan Hernandez rhp 1 year/$5M

Orlando Hernandez rhp 2 years/$12M

Jason Jennings rhp 1 year/$4M

Jon Lieber rhp 1 year/$3.5M

Kyle Lohse rhp 1 year/$4.25M

John Patterson rhp 1 year/$0.85M

Odalis Perez lhp 1 year/$0.85M

Tim Redding rhp 1 year/$1M

Mark Redman lhp 1 year/$1M

Kenny Rogers lhp 1 year/$8M

Kip Wells rhp 1 year/$3.1M

Randy Wolf lhp 1 year/$4.75M

 

Offering Marquis arbitration would lock him in at around $10M. He'd be foolish not to take that.

 

Where's Prior on that list because those were similiar pitchers to marquis maybe 3 years ago. Currently, only Byrd and Lohse are even in the same ballpark. Maybe Livan Hernadez but that's it.

[Wrigley Rat]

I am bored. I never do these fictional trades, but... What about this trade idea?

 

Marquis and someone else (Wuertz/prospect/etc.) to the Mets for Brian Schneider. Little to no money changing hands ($2 million to NY?).

 

Reasons:

1) The Mets want to sign Tim Redding to eat innings as the fifth starter, but he may sign with someone else. They have considered trading for Marquis and still continue to.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8966720/Sources:-Mets-to-make-push-for-righty-Redding

2) The Cubs obviously want to move Marquis and his $10 million salary.

3) The Mets are considering changing catchers and maybe signing Jason Varitek or someone else.

http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/hot_stove/posts/25561

4) Brian Schneider is the more expensive of NY's catchers at $4.9 million this year ($5.4 million if he is traded) which makes him the more likely candidate to be traded if they sign a different starting catcher.

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2004/12/new-york-mets.html

5) Brian Schneider is left-handed and has good splits for Wrigley. He should do well as a backup to Soto and a left-handed bat off the bench.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?playerId=4388

6) His rate of throwing out baserunners was significantly better than Soto's in 2008, so he could be a defensive replacement to give Soto a break near the end of some games.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=6428&context=fielding

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=4388&context=fielding

 

I'm ready for criticism. :)

[BCVM22]

You want us to trade a serviceable #5 starter for a backup catcher making $5.4 million?

 

Why?

[davearm2]

Paul Byrd rhp 2 years/$14.25M

Shawn Chacon rhp 1 year/$2M

Shawn Estes lhp 1 year/$0.55M

Josh Fogg rhp 1 year/$1M

Mark Hendrickson lhp 1 year/$1.5M

Livan Hernandez rhp 1 year/$5M

Orlando Hernandez rhp 2 years/$12M

Jason Jennings rhp 1 year/$4M

Jon Lieber rhp 1 year/$3.5M

Kyle Lohse rhp 1 year/$4.25M

John Patterson rhp 1 year/$0.85M

Odalis Perez lhp 1 year/$0.85M

Tim Redding rhp 1 year/$1M

Mark Redman lhp 1 year/$1M

Kenny Rogers lhp 1 year/$8M

Kip Wells rhp 1 year/$3.1M

Randy Wolf lhp 1 year/$4.75M

 

Offering Marquis arbitration would lock him in at around $10M. He'd be foolish not to take that.

 

Where's Prior on that list because those were similiar pitchers to marquis maybe 3 years ago. Currently, only Byrd and Lohse are even in the same ballpark. Maybe Livan Hernadez but that's it.

Those are all guys that are viewed as back-of-the-rotation starters.

 

Marquis is also viewed as a back-of-the-rotation starter -- by the Cubs and by everyone else.

 

The point remains that nobody's going to break out a $10M/yr contract for Marquis when these other cheaper options exist.

 

I'll say it again -- if other clubs around baseball thought Marquis for $10M looked like an attractive option, then Hendry wouldn't be having so much difficulty dealing him. Just try and refute that.

[Wrigley Rat]

Why take on a $5 million backup catcher?

1) We need to dump Marquis' $10 million contract. We will probably have to eat $4-6 million for someone to take him off our hands. Taking on Schneider's contract somewhat negates our financial responsibility to the Mets for Marquis.

2) We need a backup catcher and will likely pay around $1 million for a Paul Bako-type anyway who would rot on the bench. At least Schneider could start if something happened to Soto. (We know Bako and Koyie Hill really aren't starting catchers in MLB.)

3) Think back to the trade with the Dodgers: Todd Hundley's terrible contract for Eric Karros and Mark Grudzielanek (two overpaid reserve players at the time). This is the same thing to a lesser degree.

 

I would like this trade and I have no strong feelings for Brian Schneider. I just think it makes sense for both clubs.

[Wabasha31]

wabasha31? Wow! Where you been?

 

I'm mostly a lurker now. I come on here for information, but I rarely post. Most of the posters from the old cubs espn boards have new names. I barely know who's who anymore.

[wrigley23]

we could field quite the team with monies from players that Hendry has given bad contracts to. Marquis, Soriano, Fukudome lead the list. You have a low end major league team w/ just their money.