Dunn is awesome...No he's not...Yes he is!!!

[Keeper]

I'd take Dunn over Bradley any day of the week. Besides being a major head case, last season seemed fluky to me. Plus, Bradley almost always gets hurt. With Dunn, you know what you're getting. Yes, he strikes out a lot. And yes, he'll never win a gold glove. But you're guaranteed 40 HRs, 100 RBIs, and a high OBP.

 

'Course, they should have gone after Ibanez. Too late now, though.

 

Isn't Dunn better than Ibanez? And a few centuries younger?

 

I wouldn't say Dunn is better than Ibanez. You're right about the age factor, though. I didn't realize Ibanez was so old. But since he has shown no signs of losing productivity, a 1 or 2-year contract would have been a good idea. If they end up signing Dunn, they should lock him up for 3 or 4 years.

[17 Seconds]

I'd say Dunn is clearly better than Ibanez.

 

I don't think you realize how bad Ibanez is defensively as well, and Dunn clearly has the offensive advantage, not to mention the age difference.

[Keeper]

Clearly? That's a contentious claim. In the last 3 seasons, Ibanez has 40 more RBIs than Dunn, 37 more doubles, 11 more triples, 73 more total bases, and has batted .47 points higher. On the flip side, Dunn has scored 11 more runs than Ibanez, has 43 more HRs, has 14 more stolen bases, his OBP is .25 points higher, and his SLG is .27 points higher.

 

As far as defense goes, Ibanez career FP is .987 while Dunn's is .974. So... you were saying?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

[-(

[TruffleShuffle]

Clearly? That's a contentious claim. In the last 3 seasons, Ibanez has 40 more RBIs than Dunn, 37 more doubles, 11 more triples, 73 more total bases, and has batted .47 points higher. On the flip side, Dunn has scored 11 more runs than Ibanez, has 43 more HRs, has 14 more stolen bases, his OBP is .25 points higher, and his SLG is .27 points higher.

 

As far as defense goes, Ibanez career FP is .987 while Dunn's is .974. So... you were saying?

 

:x

[imb]

Clearly? That's a contentious claim. In the last 3 seasons, Ibanez has 40 more RBIs than Dunn, 37 more doubles, 11 more triples, 73 more total bases, and has batted .47 points higher. On the flip side, Dunn has scored 11 more runs than Ibanez, has 43 more HRs, has 14 more stolen bases, his OBP is .25 points higher, and his SLG is .27 points higher.

 

As far as defense goes, Ibanez career FP is .987 while Dunn's is .974. So... you were saying?

 

are you counting base on balls when you add tup the total bases?

[17 Seconds]

Clearly? That's a contentious claim. In the last 3 seasons, Ibanez has 40 more RBIs than Dunn, 37 more doubles, 11 more triples, 73 more total bases, and has batted .47 points higher. On the flip side, Dunn has scored 11 more runs than Ibanez, has 43 more HRs, has 14 more stolen bases, his OBP is .25 points higher, and his SLG is .27 points higher.

 

As far as defense goes, Ibanez career FP is .987 while Dunn's is .974. So... you were saying?

 

that is pretty much the worst usage of statistics i've ever seen. my favorite parts were when you talked about rbi's and fielding percentage. plus it was pretty cool that you used counting stats even though they are clearly skewed since dunn has way fewer at-bats due to walking so much.

 

excellent

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

:wave:

[Keeper]

Clearly? That's a contentious claim. In the last 3 seasons, Ibanez has 40 more RBIs than Dunn, 37 more doubles, 11 more triples, 73 more total bases, and has batted .47 points higher. On the flip side, Dunn has scored 11 more runs than Ibanez, has 43 more HRs, has 14 more stolen bases, his OBP is .25 points higher, and his SLG is .27 points higher.

 

As far as defense goes, Ibanez career FP is .987 while Dunn's is .974. So... you were saying?

 

that is pretty much the worst usage of statistics i've ever seen. my favorite parts were when you talked about rbi's and fielding percentage. plus it was pretty cool that you used counting stats even though they are clearly skewed since dunn has way fewer at-bats due to walking so much.

 

excellent

 

LOL. Whatever. I owned your ass. You said "clearly" twice. There's nothing clear about who's better offensively. Since when are RBIs a bad stat to cite? And when you say that Ibanez is a horrible fielder and I reveal that Dunn is, in fact, worse you should feel somewhat stupid. If I had gone into greater depth, I could have told you that their range factor is about the same and that Ibanez has 19 more assists from the outfield in the last 3 years.

[imb]

vance, give this n another emoticon

[Keeper]

By all means, call me a n00b and post dumb emoticons because you can't formulate a good argument or admit that you're wrong.

[imb]

By all means, call me a n00b and post dumb emoticons because you can't formulate a good argument or admit that you're wrong.

 

what's to argue? you're talking about fielding percentage and RBIs. I would have been all over this in 1998.

[Keeper]

Anyone else want to make an ass of themselves? Be my guest.

[TruffleShuffle]

LOL. Whatever. I owned your ass.

 

is this a slavery reference or something gay? either way, i do not approve.

[JimSorgi]

Anyone else want to make an ass of themselves? Be my guest.

Ha ha. I love this guy. I didn't realize there were still people who believed in RBIs.

[Keeper]

Yeah, why should they? I mean, it's not like RBIs have anything to do with productivity and hitting with RISP. I mean, how lame can you be? Right? :P :-)) :D

[17 Seconds]

Clearly? That's a contentious claim. In the last 3 seasons, Ibanez has 40 more RBIs than Dunn, 37 more doubles, 11 more triples, 73 more total bases, and has batted .47 points higher. On the flip side, Dunn has scored 11 more runs than Ibanez, has 43 more HRs, has 14 more stolen bases, his OBP is .25 points higher, and his SLG is .27 points higher.

 

As far as defense goes, Ibanez career FP is .987 while Dunn's is .974. So... you were saying?

 

that is pretty much the worst usage of statistics i've ever seen. my favorite parts were when you talked about rbi's and fielding percentage. plus it was pretty cool that you used counting stats even though they are clearly skewed since dunn has way fewer at-bats due to walking so much.

 

excellent

 

LOL. Whatever. I owned your ass. You said "clearly" twice. There's nothing clear about who's better offensively. Since when are RBIs a bad stat to cite? And when you say that Ibanez is a horrible fielder and I reveal that Dunn is, in fact, worse you should feel somewhat stupid. If I had gone into greater depth, I could have told you that their range factor is about the same and that Ibanez has 19 more assists from the outfield in the last 3 years.

 

 

You owned my ass? How? By posting skewed counting stats and then stats that don't even have anything to do with juding a player's worth?

 

I mean, seriously, you just used FIELDING PERCENTAGE to argue defense. Not only fielding percenage, but fielding percentage for an outfielder. Yeah, you really "owned" my ass.

 

Do you know what Ryan Braun's 2008 fielding percentage was?

 

wait for it

 

1.000

 

So based on what you're arguing you would say that Braun is an elite left fielder, or even the best, right?

 

Anyways, this doesn't even matter since I never even said Ibanez was as bad or worse than Dunn defensively. I said that he's really bad, which he is. I mean, that's just common knowledge. I'm not huge on defensive metrics (I'm talking real defensive metrics, not garbage like fielding percentage, range factor, and assists), but I'm sure they show that he is, in fact, a really bad defender.

 

Is he as bad as Dunn? I don't know, but it doesn't matter since I never said he was. Is he really really bad? Yes.

 

As for offense, you're picking [expletive] stats that don't mean a lot.

 

Slg percentage last 5 seasons

 

Ibanez

 

.472

.436

.516

.480

.479

 

Dunn

 

.569

.540

.490

.554

.513

 

OBP last 5 season

 

Ibanez

 

.353

.355

.353

.351

.358

 

Dunn

 

.388

.387

.365

.386

.386

 

In Dunn's worst season (by far) of the last 5, his slugging percentage was still better than 4 of Ibanez's last 5 season. His worst OBP was still better than all 5 years od Ibanez.

 

Now, of course these aren't the only stats and you're probably going to argue "but Dunn strikes out a lot and hits for bad average dude!". Yeah, you're right, but none of the other stuff that Ibanez has an advantage in is even close to as relevant as those 2 stats, which represent the 2 main goals of a hitter- get on base (avoid outs) and get as many total bases as possible. Dunn blows Ibanez away in both.

 

 

I know you'll probably complain about park factors, so here are thier adjusted OPS+ for the last 5 seasons

 

 

Ibanez

 

116

115

125

121

124

 

Dunn

 

146

141

114

136

129

 

So yeah, I'd say "clearly" Dunn is the more productive hitter. I'm sure there a ton of other metrics that prove it also, but these seem like the simplest ones for you to understand. The only question is if the difference between Ibanez's "really bad" defense and Dunn's "a little more bad" defense closes the wide gap created by Dunn's advantage in offense.

 

I'm going to go with "no"

 

now who got their ass owned

[17 Seconds]

Oh and just for fun.... RBIs per at-bat last 5 seasons

 

Ibanez

 

.13

.14

.20

.18

.17

 

Dunn

 

.18

.19

.16

.20

.19

 

so not only are you dumb for bringing up something as stupid as rbi's, but ibanez isn't even better at it

[Keeper]

FP is a debatable stat because of the scorekeeper, but care to explain why range factor and assists are "garbage"? You keep saying the stats are skewed. That doesn't make any sense. If anyone is guilty of skewing the stats, it's you - by only focusing on OBP and SLG. I've compared stats for both players from the last 3 seasons. You just did it from the last 5. You're really splitting hairs here.

 

You really think total bases is more important than productivity? Doesn't matter because...

 

Ibanez still beats Dunn! In the last 3 seasons, Dunn has walked 153 more times than Ibanez. That's no surprise, given his OBP. However, Ibanez has 143 more hits than Dunn. That's also no surprise, given his average. But add Ibanez's hits to his total bases and add Dunn's walks to his total bases, and Ibanez comes out the winner. So, that argument is voided.

 

Defense

Ibanez > Dunn

 

Productivity

Ibanez > Dunn

 

Total Bases

Ibanez > Dunn

 

OBP

Dunn > Ibanez

 

Clearly, Dunn is the better player. :blink:

[Keeper]

Oh and just for fun.... RBIs per at-bat last 5 seasons

 

Ibanez

 

.13

.14

.20

.18

.17

 

Dunn

 

.18

.19

.16

.20

.19

 

so not only are you dumb for bringing up something as stupid as rbi's, but ibanez isn't even better at it

 

You neglected to mention (or notice) that they're even in the last 3 seasons.

[JimSorgi]

If anyone is guilty of skewing the stats, it's you - by only focusing on OBP and SLG.

That's not skewing stats. That's simply using stats that actually matter.

[imb]

Productivity

Ibanez > Dunn

 

lol

 

where is this productivity stat kept i looked all over

[Keeper]

Productivity

Ibanez > Dunn

 

lol

 

where is this productivity stat kept i looked all over

 

Ah, I see what might have tripped you up. What you do is you take runs scored and runs driven in and you add them together, see? It's a little something people like to call simple arithmetic.

[imb]

if you're doing this on purpose then I'm in on the joke

 

if not, well, keep going

[JimSorgi]

Productivity

Ibanez > Dunn

 

lol

 

where is this productivity stat kept i looked all over

 

Ah, I see what might have tripped you up. What you do is you take runs scored and runs driven in and you add them together, see? It's a little something people like to call simple arithmetic.

ohmygod