Is Renteria better than Theriot?

[UK1679666180]

Taking contract details into account, I'd definitely rather have (in no particular order):

 

Hanley Ramirez

Jose Reyes

Jimmy Rollins

Alexei Ramirez

Jhonny Peralta

Yunel Escobar

JJ Hardy

Rafael Furcal

Stephen Drew

Troy Tulowitzki

Jed Lowrie

Brandon Wood

 

And if we took out contract considerations, we could add to the list:

 

Derek Jeter

Michael Young

Miguel Tejada

Khalil Greene

 

And then there's quite a few people that Theriot would be in a close group with... including Ronny Cedeno (whom I still believe is the better player of the two)

 

Dollar for dollar, I agree with that and I might put Theriot ahead of Furcal depending on what type fo deal he gets and the years he gets.

[Tyrant]

Khalil Greene sucks. The fawning over him is ridiculous.

[UK1679666180]

I don't see many wanting Greene anymore after last year and his salary doesn't allow teams espec. financially strapped teams like the Cubs to take the chance of him living up to his road splits which disappeared last year.

[Sosa21MVP]

Signing Renteria would be worth it if Mike Fontenot was allowed to dig his spikes into him a few times as an initiation ritual. Oh and a forearm to the face for good measure. :wink:

[TheDude]

If we were building a team from scratch and had to choose between Theriot and Renteria as players, it would be a bit of a tough call. Renteria is pretty inconsistent with the bat, but on the high end he's significantly better than what Theriot could hope to be as a hitter. Several metrics show Renteria to be a consistently worse defender, so if you want to go along with that let's say that they aren't too far apart when you consider Renteria can be the .800+ hitter from Atlanta or the sub-.700 OPS wreck he was last year. He's also about 4 years older than Theriot at 33, and therefore his down year last year raises much more alarm, as well as a diminished hope for a stronger defensive year like he had in 2006. So basically it comes down to the likely steadiness of Theriot v. the gamble on the potential with Renteria. You can make an argument for either one and not be wrong. However, when you consider that we already have Theriot, and have him for cheap, and we'd need to pay several million out of the limited funds remaining to improve the team to get Renteria, then it's much more clear that it makes sense just to keep Theriot....unless you were to trade him, but that gets into a whole new ballgame of what's likely or feasible.

 

Once you factor in the likely cost differential of 9 million for 2009, it becomes a much easier choice imo. Otherwise, I think you're right on.

[Wsmith]

I read the other day that Theriot was the only player in MLB to have double figures in errors, caught stealing and GDP. This may not be terribly meaningful, but I find it interesting.

[BigbadB]

I read the other day that Theriot was the only player in MLB to have double figures in errors, caught stealing and GDP. This may not be terribly meaningful, but I find it interesting.

 

I guess there's always hope for improvement. At the same time, I've said from day 1 that he shouldn't bat any higher than 8th in the order. If he's a high risk to be caught stealing, do it from the bottom of the order. If he's a high risk to hit into a GIDP, let him do it from the bottom of the order. If he's got a respectable OBP, let him get on base in front of Soriano.

[Guest]

I read the other day that Theriot was the only player in MLB to have double figures in errors, caught stealing and GDP. This may not be terribly meaningful, but I find it interesting.

Wow - blast from the past! How the heck have you been?

[nilodnayr]

 

i agree with a lot of this, but saying he's "completely worthless" is dumb. he drew 73 walks last year; i can't really explain why pitchers walk him, but he does get on base at a good level and hit line drives at a pretty good rate throughout his career. if he can put up something like .280 avg with a .350 obp at the league minimum, and keep the number of errors low, he's far from completely worthless.

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a 280/350/330 line put him somewhere pretty close to replacement level?

[Rob]

 

i agree with a lot of this, but saying he's "completely worthless" is dumb. he drew 73 walks last year; i can't really explain why pitchers walk him, but he does get on base at a good level and hit line drives at a pretty good rate throughout his career. if he can put up something like .280 avg with a .350 obp at the league minimum, and keep the number of errors low, he's far from completely worthless.

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a 280/350/330 line put him somewhere pretty close to replacement level?

 

For a SS? That seems high.

[UK1679666180]

 

i agree with a lot of this, but saying he's "completely worthless" is dumb. he drew 73 walks last year; i can't really explain why pitchers walk him, but he does get on base at a good level and hit line drives at a pretty good rate throughout his career. if he can put up something like .280 avg with a .350 obp at the league minimum, and keep the number of errors low, he's far from completely worthless.

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a 280/350/330 line put him somewhere pretty close to replacement level?

 

For a SS? That seems high.

 

That's better than replacement level.

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/dt/burriem01.php

[Derwood]

The San Francisco Chronicle reports that Edgar Renteria and the Giants have agreed to terms on a two-year contract that could be finalized as soon as Thursday.

According to the newspaper, Renteria underwent a physical Wednesday. No word yet on the contract details, but last month Renteria was said to be on the verge of signing a two-year, $18 million deal with San Francisco.

[nilodnayr]

 

i agree with a lot of this, but saying he's "completely worthless" is dumb. he drew 73 walks last year; i can't really explain why pitchers walk him, but he does get on base at a good level and hit line drives at a pretty good rate throughout his career. if he can put up something like .280 avg with a .350 obp at the league minimum, and keep the number of errors low, he's far from completely worthless.

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a 280/350/330 line put him somewhere pretty close to replacement level?

 

For a SS? That seems high.

 

That's better than replacement level.

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/dt/burriem01.php

 

Duh, I don't know why I didn't go to BP's stats page. So, that line would be about a half a win over replacement for a SS. Not completely worthless, but not far from completely worthless.

[TruffleShuffle]

 

i agree with a lot of this, but saying he's "completely worthless" is dumb. he drew 73 walks last year; i can't really explain why pitchers walk him, but he does get on base at a good level and hit line drives at a pretty good rate throughout his career. if he can put up something like .280 avg with a .350 obp at the league minimum, and keep the number of errors low, he's far from completely worthless.

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a 280/350/330 line put him somewhere pretty close to replacement level?

 

For a SS? That seems high.

 

That's better than replacement level.

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/dt/burriem01.php

 

Duh, I don't know why I didn't go to BP's stats page. So, that line would be about a half a win over replacement for a SS.

 

what? the link above basically has a 280/350/330 line and was 2 to 2.5 wins over replacement, and he had only half as many PAs as a normal starting shortstop.

[Colin Wyers]

Assuming they haven't changed anything in VORP since the last time Woolner wrote about it, and I'm remembering correctly, the replacement level for a shortstop in VORP in the 2008 NL should be .221/.267/.323.

 

UPDATE: And I don't think that's right. I've tried looking in Baseball Between The Numbers for an explanation and one doesn't seem to be forthcoming. This is one of only about 30 reasons I get frustrated dealing with BP's metrics.

[Mephistopheles]

so uncover it yourself like i do

 

i dont like vorp so i dont care enough to figure out the exact levels and weights. vorps fairly useless when comparing players