7/20 Other Games

[Transmogrified Tiger]

"Pixie dust" and it's ilk are dumb phrases, using them shows a lack of thought put into expressing yourself or actually knowing what's going on.

 

 

That said, it's quite aggravating that everyone on the Cardinal offense save Izturis and Duncan is exceeding expectations. Pujols, Ludwick, Ankiel, Glaus, Molina, Miles, Schumaker, all of them overperforming at the same time is unreal.

[illiniguy]

Hey everyone. Cardinals fan here. Just wanted to say that both teams are having a great season so far, heck, include the Brewers in that as well. While the Cubs are the favorites I don't think it is anywhere near a given that the Cubs are going to win the division at this point. With ~60 games left for each team, each of us are one series win, or loss, away from being out of a playoff spot at the point. It's going to be fun the rest of the season but I don't think it's fair to say the Cardinals are lucky or it's some form of pixie dust that is the key to our success. We had a lot of "ifs" coming into the season and luckily a good portion of those have panned out. Carp has a rehab start going on as we speak and has looked good so far and Wainwright should be back soon as well so there is a certain level of optimism in St. Louis.

 

It's anyone's game right now, good luck to all three teams, (But mostly the Cards :hello: )

Right, luck has nothing to do with every single thing you guys needed to go right actually going right. Let me guess your guys just "wanted" it more, or came together as a "team."

You notice none of us are like, how are the Brewers doing this? They are a good team. They should be playing well.

[BCVM22]

You notice none of us are like, how are the Brewers doing this? They are a good team. They should be playing well.

 

'Cept for Corey Hart, who I would like to reiterate is one ugly s.o.b.

[illiniguy]

You notice none of us are like, how are the Brewers doing this? They are a good team. They should be playing well.

 

'Cept for Corey Hart, who I would like to reiterate is one ugly s.o.b.

He's ugly, but talented.

 

The Cardinals are amazing and even Fox hinted at it yesterday. Talking about some of the jokers that played second base for them and outperformed what should be expected. They threw out Bo Hart and had a chuckle about it.

[ajkeence99]

Every team, every year, has guys who exceed their expectations. The Cubs have them, the Brewers have them, and the Cardinals do. You also have the Cards bullpen, which was very solid last year playing horribly and blowing a lot of games, Chris Duncan (who is finally turning it around) who are underachieving. That's just baseball. While luck is a part of the game, you can't put 14 games over .500 in late July all on luck. If the bullpen had been as solid as it was last season it would be the Cubs looking up at the Cards in the standings right now. All I am saying is, it's far enough into the season that you have to accept a team for what it is and stop making excuses for their success, or lack thereof.

[17 Seconds]

Haha, I just watched the replay of the walkoff grand slam and Aaron Miles posing after a home run is maybe the funniest thing I've ever seen.

[BCVM22]

Haha, I just watched the replay of the walkoff grand slam and Aaron Miles posing after a home run is maybe the funniest thing I've ever seen.

 

That's called adding comedy to insult.

[illiniguy]

Every team, every year, has guys who exceed their expectations. The Cubs have them, the Brewers have them, and the Cardinals do. You also have the Cards bullpen, which was very solid last year playing horribly and blowing a lot of games, Chris Duncan (who is finally turning it around) who are underachieving. That's just baseball. While luck is a part of the game, you can't put 14 games over .500 in late July all on luck. If the bullpen had been as solid as it was last season it would be the Cubs looking up at the Cards in the standings right now. All I am saying is, it's far enough into the season that you have to accept a team for what it is and stop making excuses for their success, or lack thereof.

You know you are right. Aaron Miles should get way better after he hits the age of 34. Ryan Ludwick should come up after being a career minor leaguer and be an All-Star. Yadier Molina should hit 50 points higher than he ever has. Also did you ever stop to think maybe your bullpen was lucky last year? There is no one in that pen I would want on our team. Not a one. They should suck ass. So should your lineup. Hell so should your rotation. But, per usual your team is overacheiving.

[ajkeence99]

Every team, every year, has guys who exceed their expectations. The Cubs have them, the Brewers have them, and the Cardinals do. You also have the Cards bullpen, which was very solid last year playing horribly and blowing a lot of games, Chris Duncan (who is finally turning it around) who are underachieving. That's just baseball. While luck is a part of the game, you can't put 14 games over .500 in late July all on luck. If the bullpen had been as solid as it was last season it would be the Cubs looking up at the Cards in the standings right now. All I am saying is, it's far enough into the season that you have to accept a team for what it is and stop making excuses for their success, or lack thereof.

You know you are right. Aaron Miles should get way better after he hits the age of 34. Ryan Ludwick should come up after being a career minor leaguer and be an All-Star. Yadier Molina should hit 50 points higher than he ever has. Also did you ever stop to think maybe your bullpen was lucky last year? There is no one in that pen I would want on our team. Not a one. They should suck ass. So should your lineup. Hell so should your rotation. But, per usual your team is overacheiving.

 

So you're saying that no one on the Cubs is overachieving? Edmonds? Theriot? Lilly? DeRosa? No offense, but I already knew the kettle was black. Jokes aside, obviously you are set in your thinking and that's fine, I'm not trying to convince you otherwise.

[Mizzou]

I couldn't help but laugh when I heard how the Cardinals won today. Aaron freaking Miles.

[17 Seconds]

Every team, every year, has guys who exceed their expectations. The Cubs have them, the Brewers have them, and the Cardinals do. You also have the Cards bullpen, which was very solid last year playing horribly and blowing a lot of games, Chris Duncan (who is finally turning it around) who are underachieving. That's just baseball. While luck is a part of the game, you can't put 14 games over .500 in late July all on luck. If the bullpen had been as solid as it was last season it would be the Cubs looking up at the Cards in the standings right now. All I am saying is, it's far enough into the season that you have to accept a team for what it is and stop making excuses for their success, or lack thereof.

 

Look at the run differential. The Cubs' pyth. record is 60-38, the Cardinals' is 53-47.

 

By the way.. the "the Cards would be in first if their bullpen was the same as last season" argument is a pretty weak one. What does last year have to do with this year? If the Rockies played the same as they did last year, they'd be in first place. It doesn't work that way. Anyways, you could also pick parts of the Cubs team (Rich Hill comes to mind) that haven't performed like last season and say "well, the if so and so played like last year, the Cubs would have an even bigger lead over the Cardinals". You can say that with pretty much any team, so it's pretty weak, especially considering your bullpen was pretty flukey last season to begin with.

[E.J.]

Wait, Aaron Miles hit a walk-off homerun? You can't script that any better. That's the funniest thing I've heard all day.

[illiniguy]

Every team, every year, has guys who exceed their expectations. The Cubs have them, the Brewers have them, and the Cardinals do. You also have the Cards bullpen, which was very solid last year playing horribly and blowing a lot of games, Chris Duncan (who is finally turning it around) who are underachieving. That's just baseball. While luck is a part of the game, you can't put 14 games over .500 in late July all on luck. If the bullpen had been as solid as it was last season it would be the Cubs looking up at the Cards in the standings right now. All I am saying is, it's far enough into the season that you have to accept a team for what it is and stop making excuses for their success, or lack thereof.

You know you are right. Aaron Miles should get way better after he hits the age of 34. Ryan Ludwick should come up after being a career minor leaguer and be an All-Star. Yadier Molina should hit 50 points higher than he ever has. Also did you ever stop to think maybe your bullpen was lucky last year? There is no one in that pen I would want on our team. Not a one. They should suck ass. So should your lineup. Hell so should your rotation. But, per usual your team is overacheiving.

 

So you're saying that no one on the Cubs is overachieving? Edmonds? Theriot? Lilly? DeRosa? No offense, but I already knew the kettle was black. Jokes aside, obviously you are set in your thinking and that's fine, I'm not trying to convince you otherwise.

Oh yeah Ted Lilly is overacheiving this year. Good one. Have you looked at his numbers. He has been below average, but our offense has won him a few games. DeRosa is doing just what he did last year with a few more homers. Theriot is overacheiving, but makes up for it by running into more outs than anyone else in baseball and playing a crappy shortstop. Edmonds is a three outcome guy who kills us on defense. Yeah he is kinda doing more than I thought he would.

 

 

Go ahead and explain these years to me.

Todd Welleymeyer

Kyle Loshe

Aaron Miles

Rick Ankiel

Ryan Ludwick

Yadier Molina

Skip Shumacker

Troy Glaus

 

Notice I am not challenging Pujols, he is great and will have some monster years.

[BCVM22]

Wait, Aaron Miles hit a walk-off homerun? You can't script that any better. That's the funniest thing I've heard all day.

 

It was a walk-off grand slam, to boot. Hilarity abound.

[JimSorgi]

Wait, did someone just say Lilly is overachieving?

[UMFan83]

Guys guys guys. I am the king of letting things like this make my blood boil. I have spent many of nights this summer in rage that some Cardinals team who on paper looks terrible will not go away and is trying to ruin the Cubs dream season. I have let this stuff get to me.

 

But this afternoon, I had an realization. Just ACCEPT that the Cardinals and Brewers are good...maybe as good as our Cubs. Accept that this will be a battle to the end. Accept and enjoy. Pennant races are what baseball is all about. We should be lucky that we have such excitement in our division. These teams keep us on our toes. If the Brewers weren't on our heels, do we turn that Harden trade? Maybe yes, maybe no...maybe not as soon as we did.

 

Just try to accept that our competitors are good enough to win any given day. Accept that the WC is coming out of the Central, and that one of the teams is not going to make the playoffs. It will make the regular season much more exciting and enjoyable, and if we make the playoffs, it will make us feel that much more satisfaction.

 

So don't spend your nights wondering why a team with Cesar Izturis, Aaron Miles, Todd Wellemeyer as key parts is keeping up with the Cubs. Accept that they are good and enjoy what looks to be an exciting race.

Edited July 21, 2008 by UMFan83

[ajkeence99]

Every team, every year, has guys who exceed their expectations. The Cubs have them, the Brewers have them, and the Cardinals do. You also have the Cards bullpen, which was very solid last year playing horribly and blowing a lot of games, Chris Duncan (who is finally turning it around) who are underachieving. That's just baseball. While luck is a part of the game, you can't put 14 games over .500 in late July all on luck. If the bullpen had been as solid as it was last season it would be the Cubs looking up at the Cards in the standings right now. All I am saying is, it's far enough into the season that you have to accept a team for what it is and stop making excuses for their success, or lack thereof.

 

Look at the run differential. The Cubs' pyth. record is 60-38, the Cardinals' is 53-47.

 

By the way.. the "the Cards would be in first if their bullpen was the same as last season" argument is a pretty weak one. What does last year have to do with this year? If the Rockies played the same as they did last year, they'd be in first place. It doesn't work that way. Anyways, you could also pick parts of the Cubs team (Rich Hill comes to mind) that haven't performed like last season and say "well, the if so and so played like last year, the Cubs would have an even bigger lead over the Cardinals". You can say that with pretty much any team, so it's pretty weak, especially considering your bullpen was pretty flukey last season to begin with.

 

 

My point was that things change in baseball and excuses can be made for any situation, not that the Cardinals necessarily should be in first right now. At this point in the season, you can't legitimately label a team a fluke anymore.

 

 

 

 

 

As far as the overachievers on the Cards, I wouldn't label Ankiel a fluke. As he was switching to a hitter from a pitcher he hit everywhere he played. He came up last season and hit very well. He has some holes still and makes some bad plays but he is technically a rookie now. At one point Ludwick was highly regarded and injuries derailed his career until now. He played well last year and improved upon that this year. Wellemeyer came out of nowhere that's for sure. I don't think you can call Glaus an overachiever either. His career averages in injury free seasons are pretty similar to what he is doing right now, he is just finally healthy again. Aaron Miles isn't that great, hasn't been this season. He has been opportunistic and has some clutch hits but either he gets a hit or an out pretty much, his OBP is barely above his BA and his defense leaves much to be desired, and Molina has steadily improved each season since he became the starter. Yes, they are doing more than what was expected at the outset of the season so if that is overachieving then I guess they all are.

[ajkeence99]

Guys guys guys. I am the king of letting things like this make my blood boil. I have spent many of nights this summer in rage that some Cardinals team who on paper looks terrible will not go away and is trying to ruin the Cubs dream season. I have let this stuff get to me.

 

But this afternoon, I had an realization. Just ACCEPT that the Cardinals and Brewers are good...maybe as good as our Cubs. Accept that this will be a battle to the end. Accept and enjoy. Pennant races are what baseball is all about. We should be lucky that we have such excitement in our division. These teams keep us on our toes. If the Brewers weren't on our heels, do we turn that Harden trade? Maybe yes, maybe no...maybe not as soon as we did.

 

Just try to accept that our competitors are good enough to win any given day. Accept that the WC is coming out of the Central, and that one of the teams is not going to make the playoffs. It will make the regular season much more exciting and enjoyable, and if we make the playoffs, it will make us feel that much more satisfaction.

 

So don't spend your nights wondering why a team with Cesar Izturis, Aaron Miles, Todd Wellemeyer as key parts is keeping up with the Cubs. Accept that they are good and enjoy what looks to be an exciting race.

 

 

That is what I am getting at, thank you. I am not one of those Cards fans coming here waving the whole "The Cubs Are Going To Collapse" deal. I think the Cubs are a good, maybe great, team this season. On paper they look really good, then again, the Yankees usually look good on paper and that doesn't always mean much. What matters is what happens on the field and to this point the Cubs, Cards, and Brewers have been basically equals. I'm not going to lie, I think the Cards are going to win the division. I'm a Cardinals fan, born and raised in St. Louis (USMC, stationed at Camp Pendleton but in Iraq currently), so I will say every year that we are going to win the division and I love to see the Cubs lose. I'm looking forward to going to some games when I return and seeing the Cards in the race for the division.

[illiniguy]

Every team, every year, has guys who exceed their expectations. The Cubs have them, the Brewers have them, and the Cardinals do. You also have the Cards bullpen, which was very solid last year playing horribly and blowing a lot of games, Chris Duncan (who is finally turning it around) who are underachieving. That's just baseball. While luck is a part of the game, you can't put 14 games over .500 in late July all on luck. If the bullpen had been as solid as it was last season it would be the Cubs looking up at the Cards in the standings right now. All I am saying is, it's far enough into the season that you have to accept a team for what it is and stop making excuses for their success, or lack thereof.

 

Look at the run differential. The Cubs' pyth. record is 60-38, the Cardinals' is 53-47.

 

By the way.. the "the Cards would be in first if their bullpen was the same as last season" argument is a pretty weak one. What does last year have to do with this year? If the Rockies played the same as they did last year, they'd be in first place. It doesn't work that way. Anyways, you could also pick parts of the Cubs team (Rich Hill comes to mind) that haven't performed like last season and say "well, the if so and so played like last year, the Cubs would have an even bigger lead over the Cardinals". You can say that with pretty much any team, so it's pretty weak, especially considering your bullpen was pretty flukey last season to begin with.

 

 

My point was that things change in baseball and excuses can be made for any situation, not that the Cardinals necessarily should be in first right now. At this point in the season, you can't legitimately label a team a fluke anymore.

 

 

 

 

 

As far as the overachievers on the Cards, I wouldn't label Ankiel a fluke. As he was switching to a hitter from a pitcher he hit everywhere he played. He came up last season and hit very well. He has some holes still and makes some bad plays but he is technically a rookie now. At one point Ludwick was highly regarded and injuries derailed his career until now. He played well last year and improved upon that this year. Wellemeyer came out of nowhere that's for sure. I don't think you can call Glaus an overachiever either. His career averages in injury free seasons are pretty similar to what he is doing right now, he is just finally healthy again. Aaron Miles isn't that great, hasn't been this season. He has been opportunistic and has some clutch hits but either he gets a hit or an out pretty much, his OBP is barely above his BA and his defense leaves much to be desired, and Molina has steadily improved each season since he became the starter. Yes, they are doing more than what was expected at the outset of the season so if that is overachieving then I guess they all are.

Yeah that would be the definition of overacheiving.

 

Glaus has been on a downward trend since'02. This year after an offseason where he was implicated as buying HGH, he gets better.

 

Ludwick was going to quit, because he was done. His wife talked him out of it and two years later he is an allstar with you.

 

Ankiel went from pitching to hitting. He has more homers than any Cub. I guess I should expect our wash out stud pitcher Prior to start playing centerfield for us any day now.

 

Aaron Miles isn't a big leaguer, but he is hitting walkoff grandslams for you.

[ajkeence99]

Every team, every year, has guys who exceed their expectations. The Cubs have them, the Brewers have them, and the Cardinals do. You also have the Cards bullpen, which was very solid last year playing horribly and blowing a lot of games, Chris Duncan (who is finally turning it around) who are underachieving. That's just baseball. While luck is a part of the game, you can't put 14 games over .500 in late July all on luck. If the bullpen had been as solid as it was last season it would be the Cubs looking up at the Cards in the standings right now. All I am saying is, it's far enough into the season that you have to accept a team for what it is and stop making excuses for their success, or lack thereof.

 

Look at the run differential. The Cubs' pyth. record is 60-38, the Cardinals' is 53-47.

 

By the way.. the "the Cards would be in first if their bullpen was the same as last season" argument is a pretty weak one. What does last year have to do with this year? If the Rockies played the same as they did last year, they'd be in first place. It doesn't work that way. Anyways, you could also pick parts of the Cubs team (Rich Hill comes to mind) that haven't performed like last season and say "well, the if so and so played like last year, the Cubs would have an even bigger lead over the Cardinals". You can say that with pretty much any team, so it's pretty weak, especially considering your bullpen was pretty flukey last season to begin with.

 

 

My point was that things change in baseball and excuses can be made for any situation, not that the Cardinals necessarily should be in first right now. At this point in the season, you can't legitimately label a team a fluke anymore.

 

 

 

 

 

As far as the overachievers on the Cards, I wouldn't label Ankiel a fluke. As he was switching to a hitter from a pitcher he hit everywhere he played. He came up last season and hit very well. He has some holes still and makes some bad plays but he is technically a rookie now. At one point Ludwick was highly regarded and injuries derailed his career until now. He played well last year and improved upon that this year. Wellemeyer came out of nowhere that's for sure. I don't think you can call Glaus an overachiever either. His career averages in injury free seasons are pretty similar to what he is doing right now, he is just finally healthy again. Aaron Miles isn't that great, hasn't been this season. He has been opportunistic and has some clutch hits but either he gets a hit or an out pretty much, his OBP is barely above his BA and his defense leaves much to be desired, and Molina has steadily improved each season since he became the starter. Yes, they are doing more than what was expected at the outset of the season so if that is overachieving then I guess they all are.

Yeah that would be the definition of overacheiving.

 

Glaus has been on a downward trend since'02. This year after an offseason where he was implicated as buying HGH, he gets better.

 

Ludwick was going to quit, because he was done. His wife talked him out of it and two years later he is an allstar with you.

 

Ankiel went from pitching to hitting. He has more homers than any Cub. I guess I should expect our wash out stud pitcher Prior to start playing centerfield for us any day now.

 

Aaron Miles isn't a big leaguer, but he is hitting walkoff grandslams for you.

 

 

So how long do they have to put up these numbers to not be considered a fluke?

[illiniguy]

Every team, every year, has guys who exceed their expectations. The Cubs have them, the Brewers have them, and the Cardinals do. You also have the Cards bullpen, which was very solid last year playing horribly and blowing a lot of games, Chris Duncan (who is finally turning it around) who are underachieving. That's just baseball. While luck is a part of the game, you can't put 14 games over .500 in late July all on luck. If the bullpen had been as solid as it was last season it would be the Cubs looking up at the Cards in the standings right now. All I am saying is, it's far enough into the season that you have to accept a team for what it is and stop making excuses for their success, or lack thereof.

 

Look at the run differential. The Cubs' pyth. record is 60-38, the Cardinals' is 53-47.

 

By the way.. the "the Cards would be in first if their bullpen was the same as last season" argument is a pretty weak one. What does last year have to do with this year? If the Rockies played the same as they did last year, they'd be in first place. It doesn't work that way. Anyways, you could also pick parts of the Cubs team (Rich Hill comes to mind) that haven't performed like last season and say "well, the if so and so played like last year, the Cubs would have an even bigger lead over the Cardinals". You can say that with pretty much any team, so it's pretty weak, especially considering your bullpen was pretty flukey last season to begin with.

 

 

My point was that things change in baseball and excuses can be made for any situation, not that the Cardinals necessarily should be in first right now. At this point in the season, you can't legitimately label a team a fluke anymore.

 

 

 

 

 

As far as the overachievers on the Cards, I wouldn't label Ankiel a fluke. As he was switching to a hitter from a pitcher he hit everywhere he played. He came up last season and hit very well. He has some holes still and makes some bad plays but he is technically a rookie now. At one point Ludwick was highly regarded and injuries derailed his career until now. He played well last year and improved upon that this year. Wellemeyer came out of nowhere that's for sure. I don't think you can call Glaus an overachiever either. His career averages in injury free seasons are pretty similar to what he is doing right now, he is just finally healthy again. Aaron Miles isn't that great, hasn't been this season. He has been opportunistic and has some clutch hits but either he gets a hit or an out pretty much, his OBP is barely above his BA and his defense leaves much to be desired, and Molina has steadily improved each season since he became the starter. Yes, they are doing more than what was expected at the outset of the season so if that is overachieving then I guess they all are.

Yeah that would be the definition of overacheiving.

 

Glaus has been on a downward trend since'02. This year after an offseason where he was implicated as buying HGH, he gets better.

 

Ludwick was going to quit, because he was done. His wife talked him out of it and two years later he is an allstar with you.

 

Ankiel went from pitching to hitting. He has more homers than any Cub. I guess I should expect our wash out stud pitcher Prior to start playing centerfield for us any day now.

 

Aaron Miles isn't a big leaguer, but he is hitting walkoff grandslams for you.

 

 

So how long do they have to put up these numbers to not be considered a fluke?

Ah the guys with over 2500 career at bats probably awhile. Let me guess you think Tony Womack's '04 year, for you big suprise, wasn't a fluke? After all he had 500 abs that year. Sure his other 6000 at bats he sucked, but that's just splitting hairs. :banghead:

[ajkeence99]

Listen, I'm not going to sit here and split hairs with you on the subject. You obviously are biased because you hate the Cards and that is fine, I understand that. I hate the Cubs just the same but at least am willing to give credit where credit is due.

[illiniguy]

Listen, I'm not going to sit here and split hairs with you on the subject. You obviously are biased because you hate the Cards and that is fine, I understand that. I hate the Cubs just the same but at least am willing to give credit where credit is due.

Yeah, that or you don't want to admit when you are wrong.

[BCVM22]

Prior playing center field would actually be kind of cool.

[illiniguy]

Prior playing center field would actually be kind of cool.

Maybe he should go the cardinals, get some hgh, and learn to "team" it up.