Bonds would play for free

[RedIvyCub]

Teams can win without breaking moral and ethical boundries to do so. Look at the Spurs. Life has been just fine living WITh competitive sports with the philosophy of not breaking the rules just to win. Most athletes live by that most fans do not because to a fan all there is is winning and excuse me if I refuse to look at it with that stupid ignorant vision. Like I said the difference now from then is I know. I didn't and don't know if Sammy took illegal stuff. I am 100 percent confident he took something but it may or may not have been on the ban list like McGwire's androstine. Signing an admitted cheater is a line I don't want my team to cross and if they do I would seriously have to think about my support of said team.

 

Can you honestly tell me with no doubt whatsoever that no one on the Spurs has ever taken anything illegal to enhance their performance? There's no way you can say that with absolute certainty.

 

I'm not advocating that athletes break the rules to win, and I honestly wish baseball was steroid-free. However, Bonds is not on any official "suspended" list. MLB has taken no official action against him, and there are rules in place on how they deal with these things when they catch someone. He'd be subject to the same testing as anyone else. If you can't support the Cubs if they sign Bonds, then I don't see how you can support them now when there are a few minor leaguers in the organization that have been suspended in the past few years for taking performance-enhancing drugs and most likely at least a couple players on the current 25-man roster who have done something along those lines without getting caught.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're a Purdue fan, right? Did you stop supporting the Boilers when they were found guilty of some recruiting violations about a decade ago? I know I wasn't happy about it when it happened, but I didn't stop being a Purdue fan.

 

It's great to have morals, but to honestly think that there is a team out there - at least at the professional level - that hasn't looked the other way once in awhile when someone was doing something they shouldn't have been doing is being a bit naive.

 

Okay, to use the college comparison you mentioned. I am an IU fan and when IU hired Calvin Sampson, I pretty much quit watching the basketball team for the most part. I knew he was a cheater and I didn't like the low life type of players that he brought into the program or how he obtained some of them (yes that is pointed at you Illini fans...be glad Gordon didn't go to U of I). Kids had nothing but athletic skill...no character, no integrity, etc. Actually became more attached to the football team at that time...you know, that team that got to their first bowl game in 15 years before falling on their face?

 

So I used your analogy and showed you that no, I won't support a team that bring on someone who is going to be on trial for his lying and his cheating (Bonds). I already rarely watch the Cubs as it is because quite frankly, I don't find too many players on this club that I feel have a lot of redeeming qualities as human beings and don't get me started on what I think of Lou and his staff (Lester not included).

[Soul]

Heck, if he'd play for the league minimum I might even go for the Cubs signing him under those conditions. Why not? He's lefty power off the bench. Can't have too much pop.

 

He'd make a fantastic DH in the World Series in the games played in the AL park. Hmmmm.... :-k

[anabiono]

I already rarely watch the Cubs as it is because quite frankly, I don't find too many players on this club that I feel have a lot of redeeming qualities as human beings and don't get me started on what I think of Lou and his staff (Lester not included).

 

whoa...can i ask you to get started then...because i would be quite curious to the reasoning behind this...

[RedIvyCub]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only thing he's been caught doing is lying to a grand jury, right?

The lie he was supposedly caught in was that he said he didn't knowingly use (one of, I don't recall which) steroids or HGH.

 

right, I know. but the fact is he's never tested positive. it's still an innocent until proven guilty thing.

 

He said he didn't knowly take them but that would mean he has taken them he just don't know it was them. It's hard to believe someone allowing a needle to go into his butt without finding out what it is first. Especially a egocentric control freak like Bonds.

 

Well, according to Roger Clemens, same thing happened to him...and using the analogy, I guess the Cub fans would be all good with adding Clemens to the rotation now also?

[Jehrico]

I already rarely watch the Cubs as it is because quite frankly, I don't find too many players on this club that I feel have a lot of redeeming qualities as human beings and don't get me started on what I think of Lou and his staff (Lester not included).

:roll:Why the hell do you even bother following sports then? :roll:

 

 

Quite possibly the absolute dumbest post ever recorded in the history of the internet, and that's saying alot.

Edited July 7, 2008 by Jehrico

[RedIvyCub]

Try rereading what I said. I said steroids wouldn't help NBA players as much. That is pretty easy to see. Yes they could be aided in getting back healthy sooner but after tat they are on their own natural ability meanwhile steroids can help baseball, and football guys add bulk and improve bat speed.

 

Bonds has admitted to having taken them just claims he didn't know he was. He has been caught and he should be punished. The only way left is to blacklist him. Any other player who admits or is caught of purposefully using steroids to get ahead (I'm not talking every positive test because many of them are a result of a drug that didn't list an ingrediant that was banned). I have a lot of respect for Jason Giambi because he admitted to it and that takes guts especially in New York but I'm rather surprised he has just been allowed to keep playing. To me its a bit of a double standard by Selig (no surprise there). Rose has admitted his wrong doing why is he still being punished, that's the best example I can come up with. Giambi cheated, and admitted to it, I don't see why no one tried to get him banned which is how MLB has typically treated such situations before.

 

Because don't you know that we are all supposed to love the Yankees and the Red Sox so they would never do that to a Yankee.

 

Remember Jose Canseco was effectively banned from the game when no one would pick him up once he started running his mouth about steroids. It's why he wrote the first book.

Edited July 7, 2008 by RedIvyCub

[RedIvyCub]

In the NBA yes. Steroids aren't going to do a whole lot for you in the NBA becasue strength its all too important. Athleticism and shooting are the two most important things.

 

Steroids aid muscle recovery. It's not all just about adding bulk. To say they wouldn't benefit an NBA player is false.

 

The way you talk it seems you don't think anyone should be punished. When we find out someone has purposefully taken HGH or some other steroid to be good then they should be out. I don't support anyone that I know has done so and Bonds is one of the few we know has. Signing him makes everything he did ok and that is foolish and irresponsible as an organization.

 

Actually, I'm all for punishing those that are caught. I'd much prefer the sport to be clean, but I'm not going to pin the blame on one person when many were doing it. I don't believe any records are tainted nor should they be marked with an asterisk. It's called the steroid era because several people used them, not just Bonds. If you believe the wide-spread theory that he didn't start taking them until after the '98 season, then you can safely assume he hit quite a few homes before then off of pitchers that were on something. There is a reason MLB hasn't officially punished Bonds. Read into that what you will.

 

 

Try rereading what I said. I said steroids wouldn't help NBA players as much. That is pretty easy to see. Yes they could be aided in getting back healthy sooner but after tat they are on their own natural ability meanwhile steroids can help baseball, and football guys add bulk and improve bat speed.

 

Bonds has admitted to having taken them just claims he didn't know he was. He has been caught and he should be punished. The only way left is to blacklist him. Any other player who admits or is caught of purposefully using steroids to get ahead (I'm not talking every positive test because many of them are a result of a drug that didn't list an ingrediant that was banned). I have a lot of respect for Jason Giambi because he admitted to it and that takes guts especially in New York but I'm rather surprised he has just been allowed to keep playing. To me its a bit of a double standard by Selig (no surprise there). Rose has admitted his wrong doing why is he still being punished, that's the best example I can come up with. Giambi cheated, and admitted to it, I don't see why no one tried to get him banned which is how MLB has typically treated such situations before.

 

I did read what you said. You said steroids wouldn't do a whole lot and implied that steroids only add strength, which isn't the case. My apologies if I misunderstood what you were trying to say, but reading it again, that's the only interpretation I can come up with.

 

As for why Giambi didn't get banned, the punishment for steroids is a suspension, the length of which increases with each offense. And for the record, when he first admitted it, he didn't really come out and say what he was owning up to...just that he was "sorry." As for why Rose is still being punished, the consequences for betting on baseball were posted in every freaking locker room. He knew it would result in a lifetime ban, and that's exactly what happened.

 

Obviously, I'm not going to change your mind here, so be it. I'm just trying to understand why someone would seriously consider withdrawing their support for their favorite team because of one player. No big deal.

 

I understand all of that and remember Giambi's farce but it is still hypocritical to me. I'm one for different penalties for different positive tests. If the MLB knows it was something major like what Bonds did then a lifetime ban is fine by me but you can't do that to everyone with a positive test because many are accidents. Right now the current policy isn't going to stop the people who were big time users already. They can use it and likely will go awhile before ever getting tested and most of the time players can get off long enough to not test positive. Once you test positive once say it was an accident and then stop using. I personally think there is a large amount of people still using because so few get tested, they tend to get warning, and the first ban isn't that big of a deal. I'm one for big penalties because if you don't cheat you got nothing to be afraid of. It's why I don't understand why they can't get blood to test for HGH. If you are legit why be against it.

 

Because Don Fehr and the union feel that drawing blood is an invasion of privacy which was the same argument they used to try and stop the initial testing that took place.

[RedIvyCub]

I already rarely watch the Cubs as it is because quite frankly, I don't find too many players on this club that I feel have a lot of redeeming qualities as human beings and don't get me started on what I think of Lou and his staff (Lester not included).

:roll:Why the hell do you even bother following sports then? :roll:

 

 

Quite possibly the absolute dumbest post ever recorded in the history of the internet, and that's saying alot.

 

Maybe because I am sports fan? You almost make it sound like because I am not an over the top Cubs fan then I shouldn't even bother to watch. I love how I state an opinion here and get jumped on but I will probably get my hand slapped for even stating this much.

 

You are entitled to your opinion and I am entited to mine. Check my other post about Sampson and IU.

[RedIvyCub]

I already rarely watch the Cubs as it is because quite frankly, I don't find too many players on this club that I feel have a lot of redeeming qualities as human beings and don't get me started on what I think of Lou and his staff (Lester not included).

 

whoa...can i ask you to get started then...because i would be quite curious to the reasoning behind this...

 

Sorry don't care to share and there are things that I cannot share.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I already rarely watch the Cubs as it is because quite frankly, I don't find too many players on this club that I feel have a lot of redeeming qualities as human beings and don't get me started on what I think of Lou and his staff (Lester not included).

 

whoa...can i ask you to get started then...because i would be quite curious to the reasoning behind this...

 

Sorry don't care to share and there are things that I cannot share.

 

If you don't want to or can't say anything about it, then why hint at it in the first place?

[RedIvyCub]

I already rarely watch the Cubs as it is because quite frankly, I don't find too many players on this club that I feel have a lot of redeeming qualities as human beings and don't get me started on what I think of Lou and his staff (Lester not included).

 

whoa...can i ask you to get started then...because i would be quite curious to the reasoning behind this...

 

Sorry don't care to share and there are things that I cannot share.

 

If you don't want to or can't say anything about it, then why hint at it in the first place?

 

Because I was stating an opinion just like everyone else here does but guess I am also not allowed to that any more either?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I already rarely watch the Cubs as it is because quite frankly, I don't find too many players on this club that I feel have a lot of redeeming qualities as human beings and don't get me started on what I think of Lou and his staff (Lester not included).

 

whoa...can i ask you to get started then...because i would be quite curious to the reasoning behind this...

 

Sorry don't care to share and there are things that I cannot share.

 

If you don't want to or can't say anything about it, then why hint at it in the first place?

 

Because I was stating an opinion just like everyone else here does but guess I am also not allowed to that any more either?

 

Most people here explain their opinions. Playing coy with "I know something you don't know" stuff is just going to irritate people.

[Jehrico]

I already rarely watch the Cubs as it is because quite frankly, I don't find too many players on this club that I feel have a lot of redeeming qualities as human beings and don't get me started on what I think of Lou and his staff (Lester not included).

:roll:Why the hell do you even bother following sports then? :roll:

 

 

Quite possibly the absolute dumbest post ever recorded in the history of the internet, and that's saying alot.

 

Maybe because I am sports fan? You almost make it sound like because I am not an over the top Cubs fan then I shouldn't even bother to watch. I love how I state an opinion here and get jumped on but I will probably get my hand slapped for even stating this much.

 

You are entitled to your opinion and I am entited to mine. Check my other post about Sampson and IU.

Your post went way beyond "you have your opinion and I'm entitled to mine." You totally deserved to be jumped on repeatedly for that one. Your entitled to share your opinion, and the rest of the board is entitled to expose your post as idiotic when you do so. Your post was flagrant elitist ignorant arrogance at best. I don't expect anyone to be an over the top fan of anything. But if you rarely watch a team because you "don't find too many players on this club that I feel have a lot of redeeming qualities as human beings" yet you post on an unofficial message board, then something doesn't add up. You act like you know all of these guys personally, when I bet you know none of them. If you want to rant about the product on the field, that's fine. But you're stepping far beyond the boundary of ignorance with your open comment that on the team as a group of human beings that came completely out of left field. If you rarely watch them, then I would also venture out so far as to guess that you're not qualified to begin with to make any kind of judgement about them. Let me guess, you're basing your opinion of them almost exclusively on message board fodder? Give me a break...

[abuck1220]

I already rarely watch the Cubs as it is because quite frankly, I don't find too many players on this club that I feel have a lot of redeeming qualities as human beings and don't get me started on what I think of Lou and his staff (Lester not included).

 

whoa...can i ask you to get started then...because i would be quite curious to the reasoning behind this...

 

Sorry don't care to share and there are things that I cannot share.

 

If you don't want to or can't say anything about it, then why hint at it in the first place?

 

attention.

 

she doesn't watch the cubs, doesn't like most of the cubs personally, and won't tell anyone why. yet she has 300+ posts here. i don't get it.

[Jehrico]

I already rarely watch the Cubs as it is because quite frankly, I don't find too many players on this club that I feel have a lot of redeeming qualities as human beings and don't get me started on what I think of Lou and his staff (Lester not included).

 

whoa...can i ask you to get started then...because i would be quite curious to the reasoning behind this...

 

Sorry don't care to share and there are things that I cannot share.

 

If you don't want to or can't say anything about it, then why hint at it in the first place?

 

Because I was stating an opinion just like everyone else here does but guess I am also not allowed to that any more either?

Or do you think that you're allowed to share your opinion but we're not allowed to share our opinion that your post was ignorant?

[Jehrico]

I already rarely watch the Cubs as it is because quite frankly, I don't find too many players on this club that I feel have a lot of redeeming qualities as human beings and don't get me started on what I think of Lou and his staff (Lester not included).

 

whoa...can i ask you to get started then...because i would be quite curious to the reasoning behind this...

 

Sorry don't care to share and there are things that I cannot share.

 

If you don't want to or can't say anything about it, then why hint at it in the first place?

 

Because I was stating an opinion just like everyone else here does but guess I am also not allowed to that any more either?

 

Most people here explain their opinions. Playing coy with "I know something you don't know" stuff is just going to irritate people.

Does anyone here really buy that he has inside dirt on not one, not two, but a majority of the Cubs that no one else has? He doesn't know anything that anyone else doesn't know. I'm calling total BS...

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Does anyone here really buy that he has inside dirt on not one, not two, but a majority of the Cubs that no one else has? He doesn't know anything that anyone else doesn't know. I'm calling total BS...

 

Yes. She has explained as much in the past.

[inari]

The thing is, just about everyone on this team strikes me as very likable. Geo, Lee, DeRosa, Eyre, Soriano, Theriot, Fontenot, Woody, just to name a few... they all seem like pretty awesome people. That's not to say people not mentioned don't seem cool, it's just hard to gauge someone like Ramirez, who never opens his mouth. Edited July 7, 2008 by inari

[fromthestretch]

Okay, to use the college comparison you mentioned. I am an IU fan and when IU hired Calvin Sampson, I pretty much quit watching the basketball team for the most part. I knew he was a cheater and I didn't like the low life type of players that he brought into the program or how he obtained some of them (yes that is pointed at you Illini fans...be glad Gordon didn't go to U of I). Kids had nothing but athletic skill...no character, no integrity, etc. Actually became more attached to the football team at that time...you know, that team that got to their first bowl game in 15 years before falling on their face?

 

As I stated in a later post, Sampson was in a position to do a lot more damage to IU than Bonds could ever possibly do to the Cubs. Perhaps I shouldn't have used the comparison in the first place, but I was trying to figure out where CubbieBum drew the line.

 

So I used your analogy and showed you that no, I won't support a team that bring on someone who is going to be on trial for his lying and his cheating (Bonds). I already rarely watch the Cubs as it is because quite frankly, I don't find too many players on this club that I feel have a lot of redeeming qualities as human beings and don't get me started on what I think of Lou and his staff (Lester not included).

 

So they aren't good people, but they're good enough to still watch occasionally? What makes them poor human beings? Cheating on their wives? If so, is that better or worse than using steroids in the context of being a good person? I'm just a little puzzled that you don't care enough about the team to watch their games more than once in a blue moon, but yet you care enough to post every now and then on a message board dedicated to the team. I'm not criticizing here, just a bit confused.

 

Maybe I'm one of the few who doesn't expect every athlete to be a good person. When you have 25 people in a room, athletes or otherwise, I can bet that at least a few of them are jerks. Why should we expect sports teams be any different? I don't cheer for a player because he donates money to charities or visits sick kids in hospitals once a week (although those are great things for someone to do, regardless of what they do for a living). I cheer for a player because he has athletic skill that could help the Cubs win. If they're a good person on top of that, that's just icing on the cake.

[Butterscup1679666578]

I think it's pretty asinine to not follow a team because of the apparent morals of the players. The sooner you realize that athletes cheat (whether it be steroids or on their spouse), the easier it will be to focus on what is more important (in terms of being a fan) - the game.

[abuck1220]

Does anyone here really buy that he has inside dirt on not one, not two, but a majority of the Cubs that no one else has? He doesn't know anything that anyone else doesn't know. I'm calling total BS...

 

Yes. She has explained as much in the past.

 

people really don't know by now that she used to work for the cubs or something? it's at least hinted at in nearly all her posts.

[Butterscup1679666578]

Does anyone here really buy that he has inside dirt on not one, not two, but a majority of the Cubs that no one else has? He doesn't know anything that anyone else doesn't know. I'm calling total BS...

 

Yes. She has explained as much in the past.

 

people really don't know by now that she used to work for the cubs or something? it's at least hinted at in nearly all her posts.

 

I didn't even know she was a she, so I had no clue that she worked for the Cubs.

[CUBZ99]

I think it's pretty asinine to not follow a team because of the apparent morals of the players. The sooner you realize that athletes cheat (whether it be steroids or on their spouse), the easier it will be to focus on what is more important (in terms of being a fan) - the game.

 

Wow, way to set the ethics bar high for yourself.

[Jehrico]

I think it's pretty asinine to not follow a team because of the apparent morals of the players. The sooner you realize that athletes cheat (whether it be steroids or on their spouse), the easier it will be to focus on what is more important (in terms of being a fan) - the game.

Or the implication that the Cubs have some players doing that, but there are other teams out there that don't?

[Butterscup1679666578]

I think it's pretty asinine to not follow a team because of the apparent morals of the players. The sooner you realize that athletes cheat (whether it be steroids or on their spouse), the easier it will be to focus on what is more important (in terms of being a fan) - the game.

 

Wow, way to set the ethics bar high for yourself.

 

These are athletes we're talking about here. It'd be different if I KNEW these people, or if my friends were cheating on their spouses, but these are professional athletes and I honestly don't give a crap what they do in their free time, as long as they work hard and are devoted to helping the Cubs win.