Why is no one talking about this (K-Rod)

[CubbieBum]

Francisco Rodriguez has 28 saves already. That's 28 saves in 70 games and he has saved 28 of the Angels' 42 wins. He's got six more than the next closest guy. He is on pace for 65 or 10 more than anyone else this decade (Smoltz 2002 Gagne 2003 had 55). Both Smoltz and Gagne own the NL record with those 55 and the AL record is 57 (Thigpen for Sox in 90). This should be one of the main stories of this season and I've heard nothing about it. I only know this because last nigth they recapped the Angels game and said he closed the door getting his 28th save. That was all no one said how ridiculous that is or anything and I actually thought they meant it to be 18 (I just looked it up to confirm he has 28 hence the thread). He's also only blown 1 save.

[Vanilla Ice]

because people are starting to realize how dumb the save "stat" is

[CubbieBum]

because people are starting to realize how dumb the save "stat" is

 

How is it dumb? It's obvious some pitchers are great unless in the save situation and then they can't handle it (LaTroy anyone). If you think the save is dumb then you have to think the win is dumb for starters (or loss). Why does it matter if they win or lose. All that matters is how many innings they pitch and what ERA they have. Same can be said about home runs. Who cares if he hits it over the wall all that matters is how many runs and rbis he gets throughout the season.

 

Most of the stats in any sport can be argued pointless because they don't actually show how good the player is. Fact of the matter is some pitchers can perform great in a save situation some can't just as some can hit it over the wall to get rbis and some can hit it in the gap for rbis. Stats are a way of measuring who is best at what. K-Rod is on pace to turn in arguably the best season anyone has every had saving games.

[Jehrico]

because people are starting to realize how dumb the save "stat" is

It might be dumb, that doesn't make what KRod is doing worthless. Batting average is a dumb stat too, but that doesn't mean if someone hits .400 that it's any less impressive. KRod being on pace for over 60 saves is kind of like that.

[abuck1220]

If you think the save is dumb then you have to think the win is dumb for starters (or loss).

 

deal.

 

but yeah, k-rod is good.

[Guest]

Francisco is indeed an amazing relief pitcher having another great season, but I'd attribute his high save total more to situation than ability. The fact of the matter is that the Angels have played in (and won) a lot of close games. This has given K-Rod more save opportunities than any other pitcher, which in turn is the biggest factor in him having more saves than anyone else.

 

He's still a heck of a pitcher, though.

[BigbadB]

Who is more amazing?

 

Player A: 31 IP, 18 hits, 18 BB's, 29 K's, 2.03 ERA, 1.16 WHIP

Player B: 43 IP, 18 hits, 15 BB's, 63 K's, 2.09 ERA, 0.77 WHIP

[TruffleShuffle]

Who is more amazing?

 

Player A: 31 IP, 18 hits, 18 BB's, 29 K's, 2.03 ERA, 1.16 WHIP

Player B: 43 IP, 18 hits, 15 BB's, 63 K's, 2.09 ERA, 0.77 WHIP

 

oooh oooh i know player b! call on me!

 

(my other reaction to this is that k-rod's BB rate is up and his K rate is down this year. small sample size, but i'd be slightly nervous if i were an angels fan)

[javy knows my name]

because people are starting to realize how dumb the save "stat" is

 

How is it dumb? It's obvious some pitchers are great unless in the save situation and then they can't handle it (LaTroy anyone). If you think the save is dumb then you have to think the win is dumb for starters (or loss). Why does it matter if they win or lose. All that matters is how many innings they pitch and what ERA they have. Same can be said about home runs. Who cares if he hits it over the wall all that matters is how many runs and rbis he gets throughout the season.

Yep! This is correct. But I have to take issue with what Golden Thunder said. Most of us here know how flawed/superfluous the save stat is, but those who are paid to talk baseball, for the most part, do not. So, it is a little surprising that no one is talking about this because, no matter how silly it may be, sports writers and ESPN anchors normally eat the stuff up. Maybe this is a little more evidence of a growing east coast bias, where even things that would normally be a big deal aren't being reported because they are on the wrong side of the country. It's worth looking at, and certainly open to debate past the whole "the save is stupid" comments.

[javy knows my name]

Who is more amazing?

 

Player A: 31 IP, 18 hits, 18 BB's, 29 K's, 2.03 ERA, 1.16 WHIP

Player B: 43 IP, 18 hits, 15 BB's, 63 K's, 2.09 ERA, 0.77 WHIP

Oh God that WHIP is glorious

[CoolHandLuke]

What's really wild is that K-Rod is only ten months older than Carlos.

[badnews]

Why should I give a crap about saves? Somebody mentioned batting average, yeah, at least Hall of Famers have the edge there, the all-time saves record is held by MIGHTY BOBBY THIGPEN. Ask me if any record held by Bobby Thigpen is worth giving a crap about. The answer is a resounding no.

[CubbieBum]

Why should I give a crap about saves? Somebody mentioned batting average, yeah, at least Hall of Famers have the edge there, the all-time saves record is held by MIGHTY BOBBY THIGPEN. Ask me if any record held by Bobby Thigpen is worth giving a crap about. The answer is a resounding no.

 

Hello my name is Trevor Hoffman.

 

Now the single season record is held by Thigpen a guy who had a career ERA of 3.43 and that's with his last three years having a well over 6 ERA. Plus the year he set the record his ERA was 1.83 with a 210 ERA+ so yeah I think it's fine Bobby Thigpen, yes BOBBY THIGPEN, holds the single season record. Do you discredit the single season home run record because Maris, who only had 275 career home runs and career BA is .260, held it for 37 years???

[davearm2]

Why should I give a crap about saves? Somebody mentioned batting average, yeah, at least Hall of Famers have the edge there, the all-time saves record is held by MIGHTY BOBBY THIGPEN. Ask me if any record held by Bobby Thigpen is worth giving a crap about. The answer is a resounding no.

 

Hello my name is Trevor Hoffman.

 

Now the single season record is held by Thigpen a guy who had a career ERA of 3.43 and that's with his last three years having a well over 6 ERA. Plus the year he set the record his ERA was 1.83 with a 210 ERA+ so yeah I think it's fine Bobby Thigpen, yes BOBBY THIGPEN, holds the single season record. Do you discredit the single season home run record because Maris, who only had 275 career home runs and career BA is .260, held it for 37 years???

Good call. Roger Maris is exactly who I thought of when I read that nonsense.

[chuckywang]

because people are starting to realize how dumb the save "stat" is

 

Yeah, but if, say, a starting pitcher leads the league by 5 wins at this point in the season, I guarantee it would be talked about ad nauseum. I think the OP's point is well taken, however your attitudes on the stats may be.

[third eye]

Who is more amazing?

 

Player A: 31 IP, 18 hits, 18 BB's, 29 K's, 2.03 ERA, 1.16 WHIP

Player B: 43 IP, 18 hits, 15 BB's, 63 K's, 2.09 ERA, 0.77 WHIP

 

 

MarMOLE! :D I was wondering how many posts until he was mentioned. Not to undermine the subtlety of the previous posts.

[third eye]

Also, contrary to the view of some here, I think there is merit to counting stats relative to rate stats. However, saves, like RBI, are far too team dependent. Anyway, staying healthy and effective for a good team the whole season is worth something, right?

[badnews]

Sorry, you can't win the "save stat and records are legitimately noteworthy and interesting too" battle, at least not in my opinion. My shot at Bobby Thigpen was to the guy trying to talk up the save. And it's just not happening. Absolute scrubs and bums are not at the top of other statistics year after year.

 

And just for the record, I don't think too much of Trevor Hoffman either. Joe Borowski lead the AL in saves and had a 5.07 ERA and a 1.43 WHIP. So we're talking about a stat that rewards crappy pitching like virtually no other. I can't remember the last pitcher to lead the AL in wins with an ERA and WHIP as high as 5.07/1.43. I do remember laughing when people said the Diamondbacks signing Russ Ortiz was a good move because no one had more wins in the previous 3 years period.

 

So the point is, I'm not going to get excited about the *possible* breaking of crappy records, the records of which are held by scrubs.

[Vanilla Ice]

because people are starting to realize how dumb the save "stat" is

 

How is it dumb? It's obvious some pitchers are great unless in the save situation and then they can't handle it (LaTroy anyone). If you think the save is dumb then you have to think the win is dumb for starters (or loss). Why does it matter if they win or lose. All that matters is how many innings they pitch and what ERA they have. Same can be said about home runs. Who cares if he hits it over the wall all that matters is how many runs and rbis he gets throughout the season.

Yep! This is correct. But I have to take issue with what Golden Thunder said. Most of us here know how flawed/superfluous the save stat is, but those who are paid to talk baseball, for the most part, do not. So, it is a little surprising that no one is talking about this because, no matter how silly it may be, sports writers and ESPN anchors normally eat the stuff up. Maybe this is a little more evidence of a growing east coast bias, where even things that would normally be a big deal aren't being reported because they are on the wrong side of the country. It's worth looking at, and certainly open to debate past the whole "the save is stupid" comments.

OK, I shouldn't have said that people are realizing it

[cubweiser03]

Sorry, you can't win the "save stat and records are legitimately noteworthy and interesting too" battle, at least not in my opinion. My shot at Bobby Thigpen was to the guy trying to talk up the save. And it's just not happening. Absolute scrubs and bums are not at the top of other statistics year after year.

 

And just for the record, I don't think too much of Trevor Hoffman either. Joe Borowski lead the AL in saves and had a 5.07 ERA and a 1.43 WHIP. So we're talking about a stat that rewards crappy pitching like virtually no other. I can't remember the last pitcher to lead the AL in wins with an ERA and WHIP as high as 5.07/1.43. I do remember laughing when people said the Diamondbacks signing Russ Ortiz was a good move because no one had more wins in the previous 3 years period.

 

So the point is, I'm not going to get excited about the *possible* breaking of crappy records, the records of which are held by scrubs.

 

Borowski had 3 games where he gave up 14 runs. Take those out and his ERA was around 3. Sure those 3 games blew his teams chance of winning but those 3 games over inflated his performance last year. It really wasnt that bad. 4% of his games pitched throws his entire season off.

[Jehrico]

Sorry, you can't win the "save stat and records are legitimately noteworthy and interesting too" battle, at least not in my opinion. My shot at Bobby Thigpen was to the guy trying to talk up the save. And it's just not happening. Absolute scrubs and bums are not at the top of other statistics year after year.

 

And just for the record, I don't think too much of Trevor Hoffman either. Joe Borowski lead the AL in saves and had a 5.07 ERA and a 1.43 WHIP. So we're talking about a stat that rewards crappy pitching like virtually no other. I can't remember the last pitcher to lead the AL in wins with an ERA and WHIP as high as 5.07/1.43. I do remember laughing when people said the Diamondbacks signing Russ Ortiz was a good move because no one had more wins in the previous 3 years period.

 

So the point is, I'm not going to get excited about the *possible* breaking of crappy records, the records of which are held by scrubs.

 

Borowski had 3 games where he gave up 14 runs. Take those out and his ERA was around 3. Sure those 3 games blew his teams chance of winning but those 3 games over inflated his performance last year. It really wasnt that bad. 4% of his games pitched throws his entire season off.

So he lost his team 3 games before you even start counting, then proceded to put up maybe an average ERA for a closer. Still not interested.

[badnews]

Sorry, you can't win the "save stat and records are legitimately noteworthy and interesting too" battle, at least not in my opinion. My shot at Bobby Thigpen was to the guy trying to talk up the save. And it's just not happening. Absolute scrubs and bums are not at the top of other statistics year after year.

 

And just for the record, I don't think too much of Trevor Hoffman either. Joe Borowski lead the AL in saves and had a 5.07 ERA and a 1.43 WHIP. So we're talking about a stat that rewards crappy pitching like virtually no other. I can't remember the last pitcher to lead the AL in wins with an ERA and WHIP as high as 5.07/1.43. I do remember laughing when people said the Diamondbacks signing Russ Ortiz was a good move because no one had more wins in the previous 3 years period.

 

So the point is, I'm not going to get excited about the *possible* breaking of crappy records, the records of which are held by scrubs.

 

Borowski had 3 games where he gave up 14 runs. Take those out and his ERA was around 3. Sure those 3 games blew his teams chance of winning but those 3 games over inflated his performance last year. It really wasnt that bad. 4% of his games pitched throws his entire season off.

 

Okay I take back everything I said, he was just plain boss out there.

[CubbieBum]

Sorry, you can't win the "save stat and records are legitimately noteworthy and interesting too" battle, at least not in my opinion. My shot at Bobby Thigpen was to the guy trying to talk up the save. And it's just not happening. Absolute scrubs and bums are not at the top of other statistics year after year.

 

And just for the record, I don't think too much of Trevor Hoffman either. Joe Borowski lead the AL in saves and had a 5.07 ERA and a 1.43 WHIP. So we're talking about a stat that rewards crappy pitching like virtually no other. I can't remember the last pitcher to lead the AL in wins with an ERA and WHIP as high as 5.07/1.43. I do remember laughing when people said the Diamondbacks signing Russ Ortiz was a good move because no one had more wins in the previous 3 years period.

 

So the point is, I'm not going to get excited about the *possible* breaking of crappy records, the records of which are held by scrubs.

 

Borowski had 3 games where he gave up 14 runs. Take those out and his ERA was around 3. Sure those 3 games blew his teams chance of winning but those 3 games over inflated his performance last year. It really wasnt that bad. 4% of his games pitched throws his entire season off.

 

Okay I take back everything I said, he was just plain boss out there.

 

Who Thigpen, Borowski?

 

 

One thing I want to get clear is I don't put much weight in the save either. Less than wins and home runs but their is still weight there. When it comes down to it every statistic but a few are pretty heavily team dependent. BA, OBP, ERA, WHIP are the ones I can' think of real quick that are dependent solely on the individual. In order to have the runs record you normally have to bat in the top half and perhaps leadoff and have good enough teammates to bat you around.

 

My main point is no matter how much weight you put into a statistic to be doing it at a record pace when thousands have tried before you is very noteworthy.

[badnews]

Borowski.

 

And I don't agree. There are so many records out there that aren't even worth talking about that get set every day, and so forth.

[CubbieBum]

Borowski.

 

And I don't agree. There are so many records out there that aren't even worth talking about that get set every day, and so forth.

 

and this isn't one of them