Soriano to DL-fracture of the left metacarpal

[Derwood]

i think we can remove the "(presumably)" from the thread title

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

Isn't the problem with signing Bonds or Lofton that it is going to take whoever we sign off the street a few weeks to start hitting? I mean neither went to spring training with a club, so it has been over seven months since either has seen major league pitching. It is probably going to take a few weeks for them to really start hitting even if anything is left in the tank for either. I think we are better off hoping Hoffpauir can give the Cubs a couple of hot months.

A guy like Bonds doesn't just forget how to hit because of a few months off. His eye for pitches will still be top notch. And like it or not, steroids or not, he's still one of the best hitters to ever play the game. That being said, I'd prefer to keep Bonds out of Chicago. The focus will be off the team, and onto him. And besides, doesn't he have that whole trial to deal with (is it even a trial yet?)?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Isn't the problem with signing Bonds or Lofton that it is going to take whoever we sign off the street a few weeks to start hitting? I mean neither went to spring training with a club, so it has been over seven months since either has seen major league pitching. It is probably going to take a few weeks for them to really start hitting even if anything is left in the tank for either. I think we are better off hoping Hoffpauir can give the Cubs a couple of hot months.

A guy like Bonds doesn't just forget how to hit because of a few months off. His eye for pitches will still be top notch. And like it or not, steroids or not, he's still one of the best hitters to ever play the game. That being said, I'd prefer to keep Bonds out of Chicago. The focus will be off the team, and onto him. And besides, doesn't he have that whole trial to deal with (is it even a trial yet?)?

 

I can't recall the actual date, but I'm fairly certain his trial date is after the season ends.

[JGalt73]

This analysis is less optimistic than Will Carroll about the location of the injury...

 

!*!*!@$*! That's what Alfonso Soriano said when a pitch from Jeff Bennett of the Atlanta Braves hit him smack on the fourth knuckle of his left hand in the second inning of Wednesday night's game.

 

Soriano has a small displaced fracture (meaning the two bony ends are slightly offset) in his left fourth metacarpal bone (the bone connecting the finger and the wrist that forms the knuckle).

 

According to the Chicago Sun-Times, Soriano is expected to be in a splint for three weeks, followed by a period of rehabilitation to regain his range of motion and grip strength, with a hopeful return to the lineup at about six weeks.

 

The bad news? Aside from the injury itself, the location of the fracture could be problematic in terms of regaining his grip. The fourth metacarpal has to move through a broad range of motion in order to close the fist and maintain a solid grip on the bat. Good healing and good rehab will minimize the potential negative impact of the injury.

 

The good news? The time he will need to rest his hand will not require Soriano to rest his legs. In fact, he should be able to continue to work on developing the confidence that gives him his quick burst, which has been absent of late.

 

Soriano, who has suffered a number of muscle strains in the past, still appeared to be guarded in his running since his return from a calf strain. According to the Chicago Sun-Times on May 27, Soriano confided in Lou Piniella just days prior that he didn't have "confidence" in running aggressively for fear of re-injury.

 

The best-record-in-baseball Cubs should not be too worried about Soriano and may actually come to view this temporary setback as a blessing in disguise.

[abuck1220]

The more I think about it, the more sense it makes to sign Kenny Lofton.

Kenny Lofton, career .300 hitter and .370 OBP guy. Yes he's old, but he hasn't really gotten any worse over the last few years. He's currently unemployed, so he'll come cheaply. When Soriano returns, get rid of the more unproductive of Lofton/Edmonds. Seems like a pretty simple solution to me.

 

there's a reason he's unemployed.

[imb]

an outfield of fukudome/edmonds/lofton would be awful

[Mizzou]

The more I think about it, the more sense it makes to sign Kenny Lofton.

Kenny Lofton, career .300 hitter and .370 OBP guy. Yes he's old, but he hasn't really gotten any worse over the last few years. He's currently unemployed, so he'll come cheaply. When Soriano returns, get rid of the more unproductive of Lofton/Edmonds. Seems like a pretty simple solution to me.

 

there's a reason he's unemployed.

What reason would that be?

[Little Slide Rooter]

I cant see any major moves being made unless 3 weeks rolls around and Sorianos heeling process isnt on the pace they would like. In that case, Milton Bradley would be the most logical target.

[radarluv1]

bone stimulator!

[Banghart]

A guy like Bonds doesn't just forget how to hit because of a few months off. His eye for pitches will still be top notch. And like it or not, steroids or not, he's still one of the best hitters to ever play the game. That being said, I'd prefer to keep Bonds out of Chicago. The focus will be off the team, and onto him. And besides, doesn't he have that whole trial to deal with (is it even a trial yet?)?

The question is if a guy like Bonds or Lofton would be useful during the time Soriano will be gone. All indications at this point suggest that this will be some time around six weeks. I don't know how anyone can dismiss the time it takes any hitter to regain his timing. This is not a question of how great Bonds is or isn't. Nor is it a question about him forgetting how to hit. Hitters that have been gone for extended periods of time usually go on minor league rehab assignments to start to regain their timing. Neither Bonds or Lofton have seen major league pitching in over half a year. I don't think it is fair to expect either to come in right off the street and produce. That is why the Cubs are better off hoping that they can catch lighting in a bottle with some combination of Hoffpauir, Patterson, DeRosa, Fontenot, and Cedeno rotating between 2nd and LF until Soriano gets back. If Soriano was done for the year, then I think the discussion about a Bonds or Lofton becomes a lot more serious.

[Soul]

The more I think about it, the more sense it makes to sign Kenny Lofton.

Kenny Lofton, career .300 hitter and .370 OBP guy. Yes he's old, but he hasn't really gotten any worse over the last few years. He's currently unemployed, so he'll come cheaply. When Soriano returns, get rid of the more unproductive of Lofton/Edmonds. Seems like a pretty simple solution to me.

 

there's a reason he's unemployed.

What reason would that be?

 

He stopped wearing deodorant.

[swordsman]

bone stimulator!

 

*giggle, giggle*

[17 Seconds]

The Cubs played great when Soriano was on the DL earlier this season. I'm not sure why anyone thinks this time will be different.

 

Probably b/c he was playing like crap when he went on the DL before, so it was unlikely his replacement couldn't match his .577 OPS.

 

That doesn't really make any sense, unless you're suggesting the mental impact will play a big role. What Soriano was doing at the time of his 2 injuries is irrelevant when discussing how they'll be without him. They'll be playing with the same team they played with last time he got injured, the same team they did fine with.

 

Are you serious? A player's performance is irrelevant as to how the team will do without him?

 

You realize that players don't perform at the exact same level throughout the season, right?

 

You'e missing the point. I'm not talking about how Soriano was playing at the time of the injury, because it's irrelevcant (other than the fact that mentally it feels worse).

 

What Soriano was doing at the time of each injury doesn't change anything about the team that they will put on the field in his absence. A team minus a red hot Soriano is exactly the same as a team minus an ice cold Soriano. I'm not sure how much more I can lay this out for you, because it seems like I'm being pretty clear.

[Tracer Bullet]

The Cubs played great when Soriano was on the DL earlier this season. I'm not sure why anyone thinks this time will be different.

 

Probably b/c he was playing like crap when he went on the DL before, so it was unlikely his replacement couldn't match his .577 OPS.

 

That doesn't really make any sense, unless you're suggesting the mental impact will play a big role. What Soriano was doing at the time of his 2 injuries is irrelevant when discussing how they'll be without him. They'll be playing with the same team they played with last time he got injured, the same team they did fine with.

 

Are you serious? A player's performance is irrelevant as to how the team will do without him?

 

You realize that players don't perform at the exact same level throughout the season, right?

 

You'e missing the point. I'm not talking about how Soriano was playing at the time of the injury, because it's irrelevcant (other than the fact that mentally it feels worse).

 

What Soriano was doing at the time of each injury doesn't change anything about the team that they will put on the field in his absence. A team minus a red hot Soriano is exactly the same as a team minus an ice cold Soriano. I'm not sure how much more I can lay this out for you, because it seems like I'm being pretty clear.

 

I understand your point. I just think you're wrong. If you have to replace a guy putting up a .900 OPS and your bench doesn't contain anyone that good, you're not likely to sustain the success you had when that guy gets injured. If you have to replace a guy with a .600 OPS and your bench has a lot of guys that are playing better than that, you're likely to sustain your success, if not improve.

 

Soriano will likely end up with a .900 OPS at the end of the year, but he started the year terribly cold. So we didn't miss his bat b/c we weren't getting anything from him anyway. Now, we'll more likely miss his bat b/c he was really hot and some guys that were hot before have cooled.

 

I'm not sure how much more I can lay this out for you...

[nolanwood]

The Cubs played great when Soriano was on the DL earlier this season. I'm not sure why anyone thinks this time will be different.

 

Probably b/c he was playing like crap when he went on the DL before, so it was unlikely his replacement couldn't match his .577 OPS.

 

That doesn't really make any sense, unless you're suggesting the mental impact will play a big role. What Soriano was doing at the time of his 2 injuries is irrelevant when discussing how they'll be without him. They'll be playing with the same team they played with last time he got injured, the same team they did fine with.

 

Are you serious? A player's performance is irrelevant as to how the team will do without him?

 

You realize that players don't perform at the exact same level throughout the season, right?

 

You'e missing the point. I'm not talking about how Soriano was playing at the time of the injury, because it's irrelevcant (other than the fact that mentally it feels worse).

 

What Soriano was doing at the time of each injury doesn't change anything about the team that they will put on the field in his absence. A team minus a red hot Soriano is exactly the same as a team minus an ice cold Soriano. I'm not sure how much more I can lay this out for you, because it seems like I'm being pretty clear.

 

I understand your point. I just think you're wrong. If you have to replace a guy putting up a .900 OPS and your bench doesn't contain anyone that good, you're not likely to sustain the success you had when that guy gets injured. If you have to replace a guy with a .600 OPS and your bench has a lot of guys that are playing better than that, you're likely to sustain your success, if not improve.

 

Soriano will likely end up with a .900 OPS at the end of the year, but he started the year terribly cold. So we didn't miss his bat b/c we weren't getting anything from him anyway. Now, we'll more likely miss his bat b/c he was really hot and some guys that were hot before have cooled.

 

I'm not sure how much more I can lay this out for you...

 

That's an interesting use of logic, and taking it further one could say that Soriano's .900 OPS could be replaced by a bench player with a .600 OPS, and one of the starters who had a bad month while Soriano was hot (D Lee who's .avg and .obp dropped nearly 100 points since Soriano's return) would make up for the slack, putting up well over the numbers they had for the last month. Why can't the guys who were hot when he was out make up for the slack? Soriano is one the streakiest players on the team, so it's very plausible that he was going to cool off for a period soon anyways, thus negating your reasoning in the first place.

[Tracer Bullet]

The Cubs played great when Soriano was on the DL earlier this season. I'm not sure why anyone thinks this time will be different.

 

Probably b/c he was playing like crap when he went on the DL before, so it was unlikely his replacement couldn't match his .577 OPS.

 

That doesn't really make any sense, unless you're suggesting the mental impact will play a big role. What Soriano was doing at the time of his 2 injuries is irrelevant when discussing how they'll be without him. They'll be playing with the same team they played with last time he got injured, the same team they did fine with.

 

Are you serious? A player's performance is irrelevant as to how the team will do without him?

 

You realize that players don't perform at the exact same level throughout the season, right?

 

You'e missing the point. I'm not talking about how Soriano was playing at the time of the injury, because it's irrelevcant (other than the fact that mentally it feels worse).

 

What Soriano was doing at the time of each injury doesn't change anything about the team that they will put on the field in his absence. A team minus a red hot Soriano is exactly the same as a team minus an ice cold Soriano. I'm not sure how much more I can lay this out for you, because it seems like I'm being pretty clear.

 

I understand your point. I just think you're wrong. If you have to replace a guy putting up a .900 OPS and your bench doesn't contain anyone that good, you're not likely to sustain the success you had when that guy gets injured. If you have to replace a guy with a .600 OPS and your bench has a lot of guys that are playing better than that, you're likely to sustain your success, if not improve.

 

Soriano will likely end up with a .900 OPS at the end of the year, but he started the year terribly cold. So we didn't miss his bat b/c we weren't getting anything from him anyway. Now, we'll more likely miss his bat b/c he was really hot and some guys that were hot before have cooled.

 

I'm not sure how much more I can lay this out for you...

 

That's an interesting use of logic, and taking it further one could say that Soriano's .900 OPS could be replaced by a bench player with a .600 OPS, and one of the starters who had a bad month while Soriano was hot (D Lee who's .avg and .obp dropped nearly 100 points since Soriano's return) would make up for the slack, putting up well over the numbers they had for the last month. Why can't the guys who were hot when he was out make up for the slack? Soriano is one the streakiest players on the team, so it's very plausible that he was going to cool off for a period soon anyways, thus negating your reasoning in the first place.

 

Obviously you can't know how the team is going to play without him. Some players might step up to cover his production, he might have been on the verge of a decline, etc. But to suggest that Soriano's performance is irrelevant to the discussion of how the team will do seems odd to me.

[nolanwood]

The Cubs played great when Soriano was on the DL earlier this season. I'm not sure why anyone thinks this time will be different.

 

Probably b/c he was playing like crap when he went on the DL before, so it was unlikely his replacement couldn't match his .577 OPS.

 

That doesn't really make any sense, unless you're suggesting the mental impact will play a big role. What Soriano was doing at the time of his 2 injuries is irrelevant when discussing how they'll be without him. They'll be playing with the same team they played with last time he got injured, the same team they did fine with.

 

Are you serious? A player's performance is irrelevant as to how the team will do without him?

 

You realize that players don't perform at the exact same level throughout the season, right?

 

You'e missing the point. I'm not talking about how Soriano was playing at the time of the injury, because it's irrelevcant (other than the fact that mentally it feels worse).

 

What Soriano was doing at the time of each injury doesn't change anything about the team that they will put on the field in his absence. A team minus a red hot Soriano is exactly the same as a team minus an ice cold Soriano. I'm not sure how much more I can lay this out for you, because it seems like I'm being pretty clear.

 

I understand your point. I just think you're wrong. If you have to replace a guy putting up a .900 OPS and your bench doesn't contain anyone that good, you're not likely to sustain the success you had when that guy gets injured. If you have to replace a guy with a .600 OPS and your bench has a lot of guys that are playing better than that, you're likely to sustain your success, if not improve.

 

Soriano will likely end up with a .900 OPS at the end of the year, but he started the year terribly cold. So we didn't miss his bat b/c we weren't getting anything from him anyway. Now, we'll more likely miss his bat b/c he was really hot and some guys that were hot before have cooled.

 

I'm not sure how much more I can lay this out for you...

 

That's an interesting use of logic, and taking it further one could say that Soriano's .900 OPS could be replaced by a bench player with a .600 OPS, and one of the starters who had a bad month while Soriano was hot (D Lee who's .avg and .obp dropped nearly 100 points since Soriano's return) would make up for the slack, putting up well over the numbers they had for the last month. Why can't the guys who were hot when he was out make up for the slack? Soriano is one the streakiest players on the team, so it's very plausible that he was going to cool off for a period soon anyways, thus negating your reasoning in the first place.

 

Obviously you can't know how the team is going to play without him. Some players might step up to cover his production, he might have been on the verge of a decline, etc. But to suggest that Soriano's performance is irrelevant to the discussion of how the team will do seems odd to me.

 

Discounting the fact that the rest of the team is fully capable of picking up the slack seems rather odd to me, too.

 

I didn't suggest that Soriano's performance was irrelevant to the discussion, either...

[17 Seconds]

The Cubs played great when Soriano was on the DL earlier this season. I'm not sure why anyone thinks this time will be different.

 

Probably b/c he was playing like crap when he went on the DL before, so it was unlikely his replacement couldn't match his .577 OPS.

 

That doesn't really make any sense, unless you're suggesting the mental impact will play a big role. What Soriano was doing at the time of his 2 injuries is irrelevant when discussing how they'll be without him. They'll be playing with the same team they played with last time he got injured, the same team they did fine with.

 

Are you serious? A player's performance is irrelevant as to how the team will do without him?

 

You realize that players don't perform at the exact same level throughout the season, right?

 

You'e missing the point. I'm not talking about how Soriano was playing at the time of the injury, because it's irrelevcant (other than the fact that mentally it feels worse).

 

What Soriano was doing at the time of each injury doesn't change anything about the team that they will put on the field in his absence. A team minus a red hot Soriano is exactly the same as a team minus an ice cold Soriano. I'm not sure how much more I can lay this out for you, because it seems like I'm being pretty clear.

 

I understand your point. I just think you're wrong. If you have to replace a guy putting up a .900 OPS and your bench doesn't contain anyone that good, you're not likely to sustain the success you had when that guy gets injured. If you have to replace a guy with a .600 OPS and your bench has a lot of guys that are playing better than that, you're likely to sustain your success, if not improve.

 

Soriano will likely end up with a .900 OPS at the end of the year, but he started the year terribly cold. So we didn't miss his bat b/c we weren't getting anything from him anyway. Now, we'll more likely miss his bat b/c he was really hot and some guys that were hot before have cooled.

 

I'm not sure how much more I can lay this out for you...

 

That's an interesting use of logic, and taking it further one could say that Soriano's .900 OPS could be replaced by a bench player with a .600 OPS, and one of the starters who had a bad month while Soriano was hot (D Lee who's .avg and .obp dropped nearly 100 points since Soriano's return) would make up for the slack, putting up well over the numbers they had for the last month. Why can't the guys who were hot when he was out make up for the slack? Soriano is one the streakiest players on the team, so it's very plausible that he was going to cool off for a period soon anyways, thus negating your reasoning in the first place.

 

But to suggest that Soriano's performance is irrelevant to the discussion of how the team will do seems odd to me.

 

Well you have to take into account the context.. We were comparing his hand injury to his calf injury earlier in the season. The team that we fielded when he was out earlier in the season is exacty the same as the team we'll field while he's out with this injury. My point is that if we were fine scoring runs during his absence back then, there's no reason to think we can't be fine scoring runs during his absense this time. Whether he was hot or cold at the time of each injiry doesn't change the team we'll field while he's out.

[Tracer Bullet]

Well you have to take into account the context.. We were comparing his hand injury to his calf injury earlier in the season. The team that we fielded when he was out earlier in the season is exacty the same as the team we'll field while he's out with this injury. My point is that if we were fine scoring runs during his absence back then, there's no reason to think we can't be fine scoring runs during his absense this time. Whether he was hot or cold at the time of each injiry doesn't change the team we'll field while he's out.

 

I am taking into account context. I think you're failing to. The Cubs were fine scoring runs without Soriano several weeks ago. They had players doing very well. Some of those players have cooled considerably - Lee, Soto, Theriot are all way down from their April numbers, ARam is off a little and even Fukudome is down a tick. They might turn it around now, but the point is, they were clicking and the team was winning while getting nothing from Soriano. So replacing him with Cedeno (who was red hot for about 8 games) may have actually helped the team. Now Soriano's on fire when many of our best hitters were slumping when he got injured. So he was carrying more offensive weight (which now must be replaced).

 

Of course you have to consider context. The context before was slumping Soriano, smoking team. Now it's hot streak Soriano and slumping team.

[Tracer Bullet]

Discounting the fact that the rest of the team is fully capable of picking up the slack seems rather odd to me, too.

 

I didn't suggest that Soriano's performance was irrelevant to the discussion, either...

 

Many players are way under their April performance - I think discounting some guys' abilities to make up for Soriano's .880 OPS when they're slumping is fair. And I didn't say you suggested Soriano's performance was irrelevant. But dextermorgan did, which was what I was referring to.

[17 Seconds]

Well you have to take into account the context.. We were comparing his hand injury to his calf injury earlier in the season. The team that we fielded when he was out earlier in the season is exacty the same as the team we'll field while he's out with this injury. My point is that if we were fine scoring runs during his absence back then, there's no reason to think we can't be fine scoring runs during his absense this time. Whether he was hot or cold at the time of each injiry doesn't change the team we'll field while he's out.

 

I am taking into account context. I think you're failing to. The Cubs were fine scoring runs without Soriano several weeks ago. They had players doing very well. Some of those players have cooled considerably - Lee, Soto, Theriot are all way down from their April numbers, ARam is off a little and even Fukudome is down a tick. They might turn it around now, but the point is, they were clicking and the team was winning while getting nothing from Soriano. So replacing him with Cedeno (who was red hot for about 8 games) may have actually helped the team. Now Soriano's on fire when many of our best hitters were slumping when he got injured. So he was carrying more offensive weight (which now must be replaced).

 

Of course you have to consider context. The context before was slumping Soriano, smoking team. Now it's hot streak Soriano and slumping team.

 

How the other players are doing has nothing to do with Soriano. That's not what we were discussing. We were discussing what impact Soriano's loss has on the team. If Soriano had been carrying the team during the games leading right up to the injury, you may have a point. However, that wasn't the case. The week before he got hurt he went 1 .269 /.345 /.423 (1 HR, 1 RBI). The players that are hot would have still been hot with Soriano playing and the players who are cold would have still been cold. How those guys do in his absence is another argument.

 

Team without red hot Soriano = Team without ice cold Soriano

 

We were discussing