Stone on WSCR - Pitcher at the deadline

[daske17]

Pass on Mussina. The last thing the Cubs need is to take a chance on a once-good pitcher who is over the hill. They've done too much of that over the years; not this year.

 

Fair enough. I guess we'll just have to wait another month or so to see where the divisions are heading. Right now, there are too many teams still in the hunt. Stupid parity.

[Backtobanks]

I agree with you. I've been a fan for 54 years and I would love to see the Cubs win it all, but suggestions of giving up Pie and Hill for possibly a 2-month rental with no guarantee of winning the WS seems outrageous.

 

Presumably we'd get at the very least a strong indication of signability before making the deal.

 

I don't think that will happen with the Yankees, Mets, Red Sox, Dodgers, Angels, and Rangers willing to outbid each other.

 

We're one of the big spending teams too.

 

But we're not as desperate as some of those underachieving teams with deep pockets.

[Moises a loo]

CC or bust. Seriously. C&Z. The Biggie Twins. El Toro & El More-o. Doitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoit. I just became a huge fan of whoever is playing Cleveland.

[JimSorgi]

The funny thing about this is that we have a number two pitcher currently in Iowa.

[Amazing_Grace]

If Sabathia could be gotten, you get him, even if it's a rental. Nobody in the Cubs system is a great enough prospect to forego the chance to try a 1-2 of Zambrano and Sabathia in a WS run. The question will be whether the Cubs can offer a better package than someone else. Hendry has some pieces that other teams might like (Hill, Cedeno, Pie, Patterson, Murton, Marshall, Gallagher). He doesn't have a "can't miss" prospect, but a lot of these guys have put up solid ML numbers and everybody always wants young, ML ready pitching.

[Brett]

The funny thing about this is that we have a number two pitcher currently in Iowa.

 

When's he gonna start pitching like it?

[JimSorgi]

The funny thing about this is that we have a number two pitcher currently in Iowa.

 

When's he gonna start pitching like it?

Probably when the Cubs decide to stop screwing around with him.

[anabiono]

The funny thing about this is that we have a number two pitcher currently in Iowa.

 

When's he gonna start pitching like it?

Probably when the Cubs decide to stop screwing around with him.

 

i really can't allow myself to blame this on the organization

 

it is hill's fault...whatever his problem is...

 

hopefully he can figure it out and come back up to the big club, until then...we have to look elsewhere

[JimSorgi]

The funny thing about this is that we have a number two pitcher currently in Iowa.

 

When's he gonna start pitching like it?

Probably when the Cubs decide to stop screwing around with him.

 

i really can't allow myself to blame this on the organization

 

it is hill's fault...whatever his problem is...

 

hopefully he can figure it out and come back up to the big club, until then...we have to look elsewhere

Really? He had four starts where he wasn't even that bad. Then, the Cubs decide to wait nine days before starting him again. He did awful and the Cubs sent him down. You don't think that could screw him up? I would think that would hurt his confidence a lot. Sabathia was terrible earlier in the year and you didn't see the Indians freak out.

[badnews]

A. J. Burnett has ace-like stuff but the results are really rarely ace-like. I just don't like Sabathia. No real reason but the way he crapped out in the postseason last year doesn't help. I get the vibe off of him he's going to be one of those lemons that doesn't help as much as you'd think at the deadline. If the Cubs get him I won't complain though.

[shnsajax]

I agree with you. I've been a fan for 54 years and I would love to see the Cubs win it all, but suggestions of giving up Pie and Hill for possibly a 2-month rental with no guarantee of winning the WS seems outrageous.

 

Presumably we'd get at the very least a strong indication of signability before making the deal.

 

I don't think that will happen with the Yankees, Mets, Red Sox, Dodgers, Angels, and Rangers willing to outbid each other.

 

We're one of the big spending teams too.

 

But we're not as desperate as some of those underachieving teams with deep pockets.

 

How do you figure? At what point do you become desperate, when other teams make trades and become better than you? You play every year to win the WS, not to hold of and hope next year is better? I would understand your point if this was Tampa Bay and someone is asking for 2/9 of the everyday lineup for CC, that simply is not the case.

 

If the Cubs lose in the playoffs without making any moves are you going to feel comfortable not knowing what could have been. Pie and Hill are not anywhere near an Elite Prospect that you simply hold on too. There is no guarantee of winning a WS next year keeping them. You don't know if Lee, Aram, Carlos, Soto or anyone will be healthy. If they get off to a bad start you don't know if you can make up the ground. There are ifs in every single scenario possible. I would much rather go all out on the year that the team is actually playing great, then wait around for another year that simply may not be matched. Remember 2004.

[badnews]

If the Cubs lose in the playoffs without making any moves are you going to feel comfortable not knowing what could have been. Pie and Hill are not anywhere near an Elite Prospect that you simply hold on too. There is no guarantee of winning a WS next year keeping them. You don't know if Lee, Aram, Carlos, Soto or anyone will be healthy. If they get off to a bad start you don't know if you can make up the ground. There are ifs in every single scenario possible. I would much rather go all out on the year that the team is actually playing great, then wait around for another year that simply may not be matched. Remember 2004.

I agree with you. I've been a fan for 54 years and I would love to see the Cubs win it all, but suggestions of giving up Pie and Hill for possibly a 2-month rental with no guarantee of winning the WS seems outrageous.

 

Presumably we'd get at the very least a strong indication of signability before making the deal.

 

I don't think that will happen with the Yankees, Mets, Red Sox, Dodgers, Angels, and Rangers willing to outbid each other.

 

We're one of the big spending teams too.

 

But we're not as desperate as some of those underachieving teams with deep pockets.

 

How do you figure? At what point do you become desperate, when other teams make trades and become better than you? You play every year to win the WS, not to hold of and hope next year is better? I would understand your point if this was Tampa Bay and someone is asking for 2/9 of the everyday lineup for CC, that simply is not the case.

 

If the Cubs lose in the playoffs without making any moves are you going to feel comfortable not knowing what could have been. Pie and Hill are not anywhere near an Elite Prospect that you simply hold on too. There is no guarantee of winning a WS next year keeping them. You don't know if Lee, Aram, Carlos, Soto or anyone will be healthy. If they get off to a bad start you don't know if you can make up the ground. There are ifs in every single scenario possible. I would much rather go all out on the year that the team is actually playing great, then wait around for another year that simply may not be matched. Remember 2004.

 

2004 we did "go for it." The problem with your argument is this: people repeat ad nauseum. Pretty much every year every body wants a "go for it" trade for a guy who isn't really a difference maker and that wipes out the farm system. Hell, we saw it this year with Brian Roberts. Trade everybody for Brian Roberts because it's been a long time since we won the World Series. Brian Roberts is the missing key. Brian Roberts is a 1000 VORP improvement over DeRosa. Brian Roberts is the legitimate leadoff man who will lead us to the promised land. We haven't won a World Series in 100 years so he's worth overpaying tenfold for.

 

I've seen your argument too much to be moved by it. Myself, I think the biggest PLAYOFF difference maker would be a healthy Rich Harden. It's hard to get worked up about any pitcher with a pulse as the 100 year difference maker.

[Guest]

2004 we did "go for it." The problem with your argument is this: people repeat ad nauseum. Pretty much every year every body wants a "go for it" trade for a guy who isn't really a difference maker and that wipes out the farm system. Hell, we saw it this year with Brian Roberts. Trade everybody for Brian Roberts because it's been a long time since we won the World Series. Brian Roberts is the missing key. Brian Roberts is a 1000 VORP improvement over DeRosa. Brian Roberts is the legitimate leadoff man who will lead us to the promised land. We haven't won a World Series in 100 years so he's worth overpaying tenfold for.

 

I've seen your argument too much to be moved by it. Myself, I think the biggest PLAYOFF difference maker would be a healthy Rich Harden. It's hard to get worked up about any pitcher with a pulse as the 100 year difference maker.

 

Hardly anybody wanted to "trade everybody for Brian Roberts". Most people would have liked to get Roberts if, and only if, the Cubs didn't overpay.

[TheDude]

The funny thing about this is that we have a number two pitcher currently in Iowa.

No, the Cubs don't. They have an Ankiel in Iowa whose potential may yield number 2. Not even close to the same thing.

[Tyrant]

Really? He had four starts where he wasn't even that bad. Then, the Cubs decide to wait nine days before starting him again. He did awful and the Cubs sent him down. You don't think that could screw him up? I would think that would hurt his confidence a lot. Sabathia was terrible earlier in the year and you didn't see the Indians freak out.

 

18 walks in 19 innings.

 

And the Indians didn't freak out about Sabathia because he won the Cy Young and he's been good for 1,400+ major-league innings. Hill doesn't get the same leeway, since he didn't learn how to pitch, apparently, until he was 25 years old.

Edited June 5, 2008 by Tyrant

[Transmogrified Tiger]

There was clearly something wrong with Hill, but calling him "an Ankiel" is definitely hyperbole.

[anabiono]

The funny thing about this is that we have a number two pitcher currently in Iowa.

No, the Cubs don't. They have an Ankiel in Iowa whose potential may yield number 2. Not even close to the same thing.

 

thank you...at least i am not the only one who feels this way...

 

don't get me wrong...i like rich hill...but all we truly have seen from him are flashes of promise...nothing sustained...and this year has been god awful...

 

yeah...maybe he will come back soon and be useful...i think everybody here will be happy with that result...but that still doesn't mean that the rotation couldn't use a very nice boost come the deadline...

 

i knew this rotation was solid heading into the season (thinking OPR would be solid) but i also knew that it was our greatest need as well

 

i think i said it before and people jumped all over me here

 

pitching wins championships...period

[jersey cubs fan]

The funny thing about this is that we have a number two pitcher currently in Iowa.

No, the Cubs don't. They have an Ankiel in Iowa whose potential may yield number 2. Not even close to the same thing.

 

thank you...at least i am not the only one who feels this way...

 

don't get me wrong...i like rich hill...but all we truly have seen from him are flashes of promise...nothing sustained...

 

That's just plain old wrong. Nothing sustained? Absurd.

[soapy]

The funny thing about this is that we have a number two pitcher currently in Iowa.

No, the Cubs don't. They have an Ankiel in Iowa whose potential may yield number 2. Not even close to the same thing.

 

thank you...at least i am not the only one who feels this way...

 

don't get me wrong...i like rich hill...but all we truly have seen from him are flashes of promise...nothing sustained...

 

That's just plain old wrong. Nothing sustained? Absurd.

seriously. he was probably the Cubs' best pitcher for about a year and a half.

[anabiono]

The funny thing about this is that we have a number two pitcher currently in Iowa.

No, the Cubs don't. They have an Ankiel in Iowa whose potential may yield number 2. Not even close to the same thing.

 

thank you...at least i am not the only one who feels this way...

 

don't get me wrong...i like rich hill...but all we truly have seen from him are flashes of promise...nothing sustained...

 

That's just plain old wrong. Nothing sustained? Absurd.

seriously. he was probably the Cubs' best pitcher for about a year and a half.

 

he has also always been a very lucky pitcher

 

i don't trust him to be a 2 starter...maybe if he could develop one more pitch or possibly two...then the kid could be nasty...until then he walks a tightrope

[Ding Dong Johnson]

he has also always been a very lucky pitcher

 

i don't trust him to be a 2 starter...maybe if he could develop one more pitch or possibly two...then the kid could be nasty...until then he walks a tightrope

are we all thinking of the same Rich Hill?

[anabiono]

he has also always been a very lucky pitcher

 

i don't trust him to be a 2 starter...maybe if he could develop one more pitch or possibly two...then the kid could be nasty...until then he walks a tightrope

are we all thinking of the same Rich Hill?

 

yes we are...i know he is beloved on here...but...i guess we will just have to agree to disagree

[jersey cubs fan]

he has also always been a very lucky pitcher

 

i don't trust him to be a 2 starter...maybe if he could develop one more pitch or possibly two...then the kid could be nasty...until then he walks a tightrope

are we all thinking of the same Rich Hill?

 

yes we are...i know he is beloved on here...but...i guess we will just have to agree to disagree

 

no.....i.......refuse......to.....agree.....

[Ding Dong Johnson]

he has also always been a very lucky pitcher

 

i don't trust him to be a 2 starter...maybe if he could develop one more pitch or possibly two...then the kid could be nasty...until then he walks a tightrope

are we all thinking of the same Rich Hill?

 

yes we are...i know he is beloved on here...but...i guess we will just have to agree to disagree

he's beloved because he was the best pitcher in the rotation for the last half of 2006 through the end of last year. ignoring that is foolish

[anabiono]

You don't like my ellipsis usage?