Stop pitching Marmol with big leads

[Guest]

Even if it isn't a save situation, it is possible that Lou wants to get Marmol used to nailing down the last three outs of the game. Given that Wood is on a one year deal, even if we don't replace him with Marmol this season it is possible that Marmol will be the closer in 2009. Lou could just be thinking ahead here.

[Soul]

In the extended post game they said he pitched something like 4 innings in the last 2 weeks. That might not be accurate but it was something like that. All I know is it sounds like he is not being abused and was in just to get an inning of work in and keep him fresh.

 

Yet you guys think he's being overworked? Why.

 

It's just a ritual here. Every time Marmol pitches, everybody screams ZOMG HE IS BEING OVERUSED HIS ARM WILL FALL OFF ZOMG ZOMG.

 

It's pretty amusing.

 

Most realize he's going to be needed for the stretch run too, not just in April/May/June. If Marmol wears down, it's not difficult to forsee a full-out collapse of the bullpen, so people get very prickly about his use. Except Lou, that is. Lou is obviously not concerned in the least.

 

My concern is more that this was a great opportunity to give some of the long relievers some work, and that opportunity was missed. Not ideal.

[Colin Wyers]

In the extended post game they said he pitched something like 4 innings in the last 2 weeks. That might not be accurate but it was something like that. All I know is it sounds like he is not being abused and was in just to get an inning of work in and keep him fresh.

 

Yet you guys think he's being overworked? Why.

 

It's just a ritual here. Every time Marmol pitches, everybody screams ZOMG HE IS BEING OVERUSED HIS ARM WILL FALL OFF ZOMG ZOMG.

 

It's pretty amusing.

 

If this isn't a situation you use Chad Fox in, what situation DO you use him in?

 

The bigger issue is that, ever since Marmol became "the setup man," Lou seems to view him as limited to the eighth or ninth inning, rather than using him as a fireman WHENEVER the game is on the line, regardless of the inning.

[minnesotacubsfan]

The second in my "Lou continues to do something exceedingly stupid" series, Marmol pitched today with a five run lead. He pitched two innings in a game last weekend with a six run game, and is on pace to throw 102 innings out of the bullpen - which is way too much. if you want marmol to be useful in september and october - which is the ultimate goal of this team - then stop using marmol in a spot where any pitcher out of the bullpen will do.

 

now sit back and enjoy as lou continues to do things in his stupid way.

 

Friday: Cubs win with Lilly struggling prior to game

Saturday: Cubs come from behind to win, bring Marmol in to shut the door.

 

Cubs up 2-0.

 

Sunday: Ace (big Z) on the mound against a 41 yr old pitcher. Good odds there.

 

Cant say I blame Lou. He is rolling the dice abit, but its a good gamble.

[Sosa21MVP]

The second in my "Lou continues to do something exceedingly stupid" series, Marmol pitched today with a five run lead. He pitched two innings in a game last weekend with a six run game, and is on pace to throw 102 innings out of the bullpen - which is way too much. if you want marmol to be useful in september and october - which is the ultimate goal of this team - then stop using marmol in a spot where any pitcher out of the bullpen will do.

 

now sit back and enjoy as lou continues to do things in his stupid way.

 

Friday: Cubs win with Lilly struggling prior to game

Saturday: Cubs come from behind to win, bring Marmol in to shut the door.

 

Cubs up 2-0.

 

Sunday: Ace (big Z) on the mound against a 41 yr old pitcher. Good odds there.

 

Cant say I blame Lou. He is rolling the dice abit, but its a good gamble.

 

Amen.

[Sammy Sofa]

Hail Satan.

 

Lou is a weird, weird guy.

[tfarks]

Jeebus forbid if Marmol goes down. I actually hope he does something stupid during the summer like stub his toe too hard and go to the DL so he can have an elongated rest before September rolls around. I have to assume he has a stretch of dead arm I just hope it doesn't come at the most inopportune time.

I may just be overly worried due to the Cubs' past with pitcher abuse issues. Maybe Lou will let up when we get a comfortable lead in the division...But Truffle brings up a great point, there's no way he gets to 100 innings, hopefully this is due to being rested and not due to incapability.

[SouthSideRyan]

Re: MN Cubs Fan:

 

Bring in Marmol to shut the door?? Shut one door. It was give up less than 5 runs in 3 outs. That door is already deadbolted and nailed shut. If Marmol hadn't pitched yesterday, I'd be okay with this. This was just stupid.

[TruffleShuffle]

In the extended post game they said he pitched something like 4 innings in the last 2 weeks. That might not be accurate but it was something like that. All I know is it sounds like he is not being abused and was in just to get an inning of work in and keep him fresh.

 

Yet you guys think he's being overworked? Why.

 

It's just a ritual here. Every time Marmol pitches, everybody screams ZOMG HE IS BEING OVERUSED HIS ARM WILL FALL OFF ZOMG ZOMG.

 

It's pretty amusing.

 

(a) 95% of the complaining comes when lou needlessly uses marmol, as was the case in saturday's game

 

(b) he's on pace to throw more innings than any reliever in baseball last season, so to laugh it off is awfully foolish.

[RynoRules]

I was scratching my head over this when he came in in the ninth yesterday, but I think the teeth-grinding is a bit over the top.

 

Our entire bullpen was overused in the month of April because approx. 3/5 of our rotation stunk. If that levels-off it will (hopefully) ultimately cut into Marmol's workload.

 

If he pit ches again today I'll be unhappy with the decision, but I get that Lou is thinking that he won't be needed b/c Z is on the mound.

[minnesotacubsfan]

Re: MN Cubs Fan:

 

Bring in Marmol to shut the door?? Shut one door. It was give up less than 5 runs in 3 outs. That door is already deadbolted and nailed shut. If Marmol hadn't pitched yesterday, I'd be okay with this. This was just stupid.

 

I understand the over-doing of "shutting the door", but these were the D-backs, not the Pirates. Maybe Lou felt that after the 7th inning rally, he wanted to take ZERO chances and still keep Wood for tomorrow? Fox hasn't exactly looked other-worldy lately, and who else was available? Wuertz? the move wasn't ideal, but I certainly don't think it was completely stupid. One thing not to overlook is that the Cubs have a good chance to SWEEP the D-backs now. THATS an accomplishment.

[inari]

Re: MN Cubs Fan:

 

Bring in Marmol to shut the door?? Shut one door. It was give up less than 5 runs in 3 outs. That door is already deadbolted and nailed shut. If Marmol hadn't pitched yesterday, I'd be okay with this. This was just stupid.

 

I understand the over-doing of "shutting the door", but these were the D-backs, not the Pirates. Maybe Lou felt that after the 7th inning rally, he wanted to take ZERO chances and still keep Wood for tomorrow? Fox hasn't exactly looked other-worldy lately, and who else was available? Wuertz? the move wasn't ideal, but I certainly don't think it was completely stupid. One thing not to overlook is that the Cubs have a good chance to SWEEP the D-backs now. THATS an accomplishment.

 

And they'd almost certainly still have the chance to sweep them if Marmol wasn't used yesterday. In fact, they'd have a better chance, as Carlos is probably unavailable today.

[Illini Iceman]

In the extended post game they said he pitched something like 4 innings in the last 2 weeks. That might not be accurate but it was something like that. All I know is it sounds like he is not being abused and was in just to get an inning of work in and keep him fresh.

 

Yet you guys think he's being overworked? Why.

 

It's just a ritual here. Every time Marmol pitches, everybody screams ZOMG HE IS BEING OVERUSED HIS ARM WILL FALL OFF ZOMG ZOMG.

 

It's pretty amusing.

 

(a) 95% of the complaining comes when lou needlessly uses marmol, as was the case in saturday's game

 

(b) he's on pace to throw more innings than any reliever in baseball last season, so to laugh it off is awfully foolish.

 

Actually, even with his scoreless ninth inning Saturday—stretching his scoreless streak to 102/3 innings—he hasn't cracked the National League's top 10 in pitching appearances.

 

"It doesn't bother me," Marmol said of being a workhorse. "I feel great, ready to go. In my situation I feel better pitching [frequently]."

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-080510-carlos-marmol-chicago-cubs,1,4562380.story

 

Does anyone know how he ranks among relievers in IP? I don't know how to look that up and sort just by relievers.

[minnesotacubsfan]

In the extended post game they said he pitched something like 4 innings in the last 2 weeks. That might not be accurate but it was something like that. All I know is it sounds like he is not being abused and was in just to get an inning of work in and keep him fresh.

 

Yet you guys think he's being overworked? Why.

 

It's just a ritual here. Every time Marmol pitches, everybody screams ZOMG HE IS BEING OVERUSED HIS ARM WILL FALL OFF ZOMG ZOMG.

 

It's pretty amusing.

 

(a) 95% of the complaining comes when lou needlessly uses marmol, as was the case in saturday's game

 

(b) he's on pace to throw more innings than any reliever in baseball last season, so to laugh it off is awfully foolish.

 

Actually, even with his scoreless ninth inning Saturday—stretching his scoreless streak to 102/3 innings—he hasn't cracked the National League's top 10 in pitching appearances.

 

"It doesn't bother me," Marmol said of being a workhorse. "I feel great, ready to go. In my situation I feel better pitching [frequently]."

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-080510-carlos-marmol-chicago-cubs,1,4562380.story

 

Does anyone know how he ranks among relievers in IP? I don't know how to look that up and sort just by relievers.

 

 

to add on to that, is there a way of tallying # of pitches by reliever. I can only find that stat across baseball....

[Keener98]

In the extended post game they said he pitched something like 4 innings in the last 2 weeks. That might not be accurate but it was something like that. All I know is it sounds like he is not being abused and was in just to get an inning of work in and keep him fresh.

 

Yet you guys think he's being overworked? Why.

 

It's just a ritual here. Every time Marmol pitches, everybody screams ZOMG HE IS BEING OVERUSED HIS ARM WILL FALL OFF ZOMG ZOMG.

 

It's pretty amusing.

 

(a) 95% of the complaining comes when lou needlessly uses marmol, as was the case in saturday's game

 

(b) he's on pace to throw more innings than any reliever in baseball last season, so to laugh it off is awfully foolish.

 

Actually, even with his scoreless ninth inning Saturday—stretching his scoreless streak to 102/3 innings—he hasn't cracked the National League's top 10 in pitching appearances.

 

"It doesn't bother me," Marmol said of being a workhorse. "I feel great, ready to go. In my situation I feel better pitching [frequently]."

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-080510-carlos-marmol-chicago-cubs,1,4562380.story

 

Does anyone know how he ranks among relievers in IP? I don't know how to look that up and sort just by relievers.

 

Marmol is tied for 4th in innings pitched by a reliever in the NL with 23. Chan Ho Park leads with 25 innings pitched. Hes tied for 5th in the Major leagues.

[Keener98]

In the extended post game they said he pitched something like 4 innings in the last 2 weeks. That might not be accurate but it was something like that. All I know is it sounds like he is not being abused and was in just to get an inning of work in and keep him fresh.

 

Yet you guys think he's being overworked? Why.

 

It's just a ritual here. Every time Marmol pitches, everybody screams ZOMG HE IS BEING OVERUSED HIS ARM WILL FALL OFF ZOMG ZOMG.

 

It's pretty amusing.

 

(a) 95% of the complaining comes when lou needlessly uses marmol, as was the case in saturday's game

 

(b) he's on pace to throw more innings than any reliever in baseball last season, so to laugh it off is awfully foolish.

 

Actually, even with his scoreless ninth inning Saturday—stretching his scoreless streak to 102/3 innings—he hasn't cracked the National League's top 10 in pitching appearances.

 

"It doesn't bother me," Marmol said of being a workhorse. "I feel great, ready to go. In my situation I feel better pitching [frequently]."

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-080510-carlos-marmol-chicago-cubs,1,4562380.story

 

Does anyone know how he ranks among relievers in IP? I don't know how to look that up and sort just by relievers.

 

 

to add on to that, is there a way of tallying # of pitches by reliever. I can only find that stat across baseball....

 

Looks like Carlos has thrown 364 pitches, which would put in 9th in NL relievers, and 11th in the Majors.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/pitching?sort=thirdInnings&split=128&league=mlb&season=2008&seasonType=2&type=pitch3&ageMin=0&ageMax=99&hand=a&pos=all&minip=0

Edited May 11, 2008 by Keener98

[minnesotacubsfan]

In the extended post game they said he pitched something like 4 innings in the last 2 weeks. That might not be accurate but it was something like that. All I know is it sounds like he is not being abused and was in just to get an inning of work in and keep him fresh.

 

Yet you guys think he's being overworked? Why.

 

It's just a ritual here. Every time Marmol pitches, everybody screams ZOMG HE IS BEING OVERUSED HIS ARM WILL FALL OFF ZOMG ZOMG.

 

It's pretty amusing.

 

(a) 95% of the complaining comes when lou needlessly uses marmol, as was the case in saturday's game

 

(b) he's on pace to throw more innings than any reliever in baseball last season, so to laugh it off is awfully foolish.

 

Actually, even with his scoreless ninth inning Saturday—stretching his scoreless streak to 102/3 innings—he hasn't cracked the National League's top 10 in pitching appearances.

 

"It doesn't bother me," Marmol said of being a workhorse. "I feel great, ready to go. In my situation I feel better pitching [frequently]."

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-080510-carlos-marmol-chicago-cubs,1,4562380.story

 

Does anyone know how he ranks among relievers in IP? I don't know how to look that up and sort just by relievers.

 

 

to add on to that, is there a way of tallying # of pitches by reliever. I can only find that stat across baseball....

 

Looks like Carlos has thrown 364 pitches.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/pitching?sort=thirdInnings&split=128&league=mlb&season=2008&seasonType=2&type=pitch3&ageMin=0&ageMax=99&hand=a&pos=all&minip=0

 

 

I got that, i just wanted to compare him to all relievers....

[Keener98]

That link I gave you is comparing him to all relievers.

[minnesotacubsfan]

That link I gave you is comparing him to all relievers.

 

ahh..thanks. I didnt understand that.

[Little Slide Rooter]

The more I think about it, the more the most logical explanaion is that Lou could be grooming Marmol for the rotation. While I hate the idea, Marmol has been a starter in the past, and theres no other reason to put him out when hes plain not needed.

[Exile on Waveland]

The second in my "Lou continues to do something exceedingly stupid" series, Marmol pitched today with a five run lead. He pitched two innings in a game last weekend with a six run game, and is on pace to throw 102 innings out of the bullpen - which is way too much. if you want marmol to be useful in september and october - which is the ultimate goal of this team - then stop using marmol in a spot where any pitcher out of the bullpen will do.

 

now sit back and enjoy as lou continues to do things in his stupid way.

 

Friday: Cubs win with Lilly struggling prior to game

Saturday: Cubs come from behind to win, bring Marmol in to shut the door.

 

Cubs up 2-0.

 

Sunday: Ace (big Z) on the mound against a 41 yr old pitcher. Good odds there.

 

Cant say I blame Lou. He is rolling the dice abit, but its a good gamble.

 

You'd rather gamble that today's game is a blowout against the best team in baseball and Marmol won't be needed than gamble that Fox/Wuertz/Howry could protect a five-run lead in one inning? That's not a good gamble; it is, in fact, an incredibly short-sighted one.

[minnesotacubsfan]

The second in my "Lou continues to do something exceedingly stupid" series, Marmol pitched today with a five run lead. He pitched two innings in a game last weekend with a six run game, and is on pace to throw 102 innings out of the bullpen - which is way too much. if you want marmol to be useful in september and october - which is the ultimate goal of this team - then stop using marmol in a spot where any pitcher out of the bullpen will do.

 

now sit back and enjoy as lou continues to do things in his stupid way.

 

Friday: Cubs win with Lilly struggling prior to game

Saturday: Cubs come from behind to win, bring Marmol in to shut the door.

 

Cubs up 2-0.

 

Sunday: Ace (big Z) on the mound against a 41 yr old pitcher. Good odds there.

 

Cant say I blame Lou. He is rolling the dice abit, but its a good gamble.

 

You'd rather gamble that today's game is a blowout against the best team in baseball and Marmol won't be needed than gamble that Fox/Wuertz/Howry could protect a five-run lead in one inning? That's not a good gamble; it is, in fact, an incredibly short-sighted one.

 

 

all 3 of those pitchers have struggled MIGHTILY, so yea, I'd rather take my chances with Z

[Sammy Sofa]

The second in my "Lou continues to do something exceedingly stupid" series, Marmol pitched today with a five run lead. He pitched two innings in a game last weekend with a six run game, and is on pace to throw 102 innings out of the bullpen - which is way too much. if you want marmol to be useful in september and october - which is the ultimate goal of this team - then stop using marmol in a spot where any pitcher out of the bullpen will do.

 

now sit back and enjoy as lou continues to do things in his stupid way.

 

Friday: Cubs win with Lilly struggling prior to game

Saturday: Cubs come from behind to win, bring Marmol in to shut the door.

 

Cubs up 2-0.

 

Sunday: Ace (big Z) on the mound against a 41 yr old pitcher. Good odds there.

 

Cant say I blame Lou. He is rolling the dice abit, but its a good gamble.

 

You'd rather gamble that today's game is a blowout against the best team in baseball and Marmol won't be needed than gamble that Fox/Wuertz/Howry could protect a five-run lead in one inning? That's not a good gamble; it is, in fact, an incredibly short-sighted one.

 

 

all 3 of those pitchers have struggled MIGHTILY, so yea, I'd rather take my chances with Z

 

"MIGHTILY" to the point that they're likely right now to give up 5+ runs?

 

Come on.

[Careless]

I was scratching my head over this when he came in in the ninth yesterday, but I think the teeth-grinding is a bit over the top.

 

Our entire bullpen was overused in the month of April because approx. 3/5 of our rotation stunk. If that levels-off it will (hopefully) ultimately cut into Marmol's workload.

 

If he pit ches again today I'll be unhappy with the decision, but I get that Lou is thinking that he won't be needed b/c Z is on the mound.

That's a reason for your middle and long relief to be overtaxed, not for your best reliever to be pitching so much.

 

But with all of the changes in relievers and the extra relievers, middle/long relief was never in terrible shape (in terms of being rested)

[SouthSideRyan]

The explanations as to why Marmol was pitched in this game are sounding very much like the excuses given about Dusty when he'd leave Prior/Wood/anyone in for 130 pitches with a huge lead. I wonder if Marmol's going to be called soft when he goes down with an injury