8-1 without Soriano; 7-5 with Soriano

[haubrich91]

And I thought we would start losing. :P

[BigbadB]

The long list of Latin American players who struggle in cooler weather at the beginning of a baseball season is quite lengthy. Many have started heating it up of late, and I don't see any reason why Soriano would be any different once he comes off the DL.

 

The Cubs won plenty of games last year with Soriano leading off and I'm sure they will win plenty of games this year with Soriano leading off.

 

It's not the most ideal of situations to have one of your worst OBP guys hitting at the top of the order, but let's not pretend we are talking about Neifi Perez here. Soriano makes up for his poor OBP by supplying a healthy SLG.

 

And as the argument has been debated long enough, the answer never changes. Lead off is not a position. It's simply a spot in the order. In a typical game, the lead off hitter might only hit "lead off" one time in an entire game.

 

If I were filling out a line up card, the best hitters on the team would be receiving the most at bats, and the way to get the most at bats is to bat them ahead of the poorer hitters on the team.

 

In other words, I want Soriano at the plate more often than Ryan Theriot. Period.

 

An argument can be made that next year it might be a good idea to put a guy who doesn't do well in cooler weather down in the order, but I think we'll be fine with Soriano once his bat heats up.

 

Soriano seems to feel more comfortable hitting first in the line up. With a much better looking 6-8, Soriano should see more RBI opportunities along with a better bench pinch hitting in the 9 spot.

 

I'm very pleased with how well the Cubs have played without one of the better hitters in the line up for the last few weeks. Nothing would thrill me more than when some of these guys start cooling off, Soriano starts heating it up.

[brinoch]

Indeed, it would be very nice to get some production from Soriano when some of our guys come back to earth.

[tfarks]

The long list of Latin American players who struggle in cooler weather at the beginning of a baseball season is quite lengthy. Many have started heating it up of late, and I don't see any reason why Soriano would be any different once he comes off the DL.

 

The Cubs won plenty of games last year with Soriano leading off and I'm sure they will win plenty of games this year with Soriano leading off.

 

It's not the most ideal of situations to have one of your worst OBP guys hitting at the top of the order, but let's not pretend we are talking about Neifi Perez here. Soriano makes up for his poor OBP by supplying a healthy SLG.

 

And as the argument has been debated long enough, the answer never changes. Lead off is not a position. It's simply a spot in the order. In a typical game, the lead off hitter might only hit "lead off" one time in an entire game.

 

If I were filling out a line up card, the best hitters on the team would be receiving the most at bats, and the way to get the most at bats is to bat them ahead of the poorer hitters on the team.

 

In other words, I want Soriano at the plate more often than Ryan Theriot. Period.

 

An argument can be made that next year it might be a good idea to put a guy who doesn't do well in cooler weather down in the order, but I think we'll be fine with Soriano once his bat heats up.

 

Soriano seems to feel more comfortable hitting first in the line up. With a much better looking 6-8, Soriano should see more RBI opportunities along with a better bench pinch hitting in the 9 spot.

 

I'm very pleased with how well the Cubs have played without one of the better hitters in the line up for the last few weeks. Nothing would thrill me more than when some of these guys start cooling off, Soriano starts heating it up.

 

I agree whole-heartedly. I won't be overly excited when Lou bats Soriano 1st and Theriot 2nd, but that deals more with Theriot than Soriano. Once our offense starts to cool down to a sub-astronomic level and the weather continually warming up Soriano can easily carry this team for a week as we have seen him do before.

I wouldn't be too concerned with the 7-5 record with Soriano in the lineup considering he wasn't the only one struggling then.

[RegulusBlue]

Indeed, it would be very nice to get some production from Soriano when some of our guys come back to earth.

 

I'm skeptical. I do not like what Soriano brings to the table, and he doesn't get on base enough for me. I hope Lou finds his balls and banishes him to be the best 5-7 hitter in the MLB.

[Sammy Sofa]

Indeed, it would be very nice to get some production from Soriano when some of our guys come back to earth.

 

I'm skeptical. I do not like what Soriano brings to the table, and he doesn't get on base enough for me. I hope Lou finds his balls and banishes him to be the best 5-7 hitter in the MLB.

 

I agree.

 

Getting a guy who will hit you 30-40 HR's a year less AB's is exactly what this team needs.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Indeed, it would be very nice to get some production from Soriano when some of our guys come back to earth.

 

I'm skeptical. I do not like what Soriano brings to the table, and he doesn't get on base enough for me. I hope Lou finds his balls and banishes him to be the best 5-7 hitter in the MLB.

 

I agree.

 

Getting a guy who will hit you 30-40 HR's a year less AB's is exactly what this team needs.

 

Better than giving more to a guy who makes an out around 67% of the time he comes up.

[hotshot13422]

Indeed, it would be very nice to get some production from Soriano when some of our guys come back to earth.

 

I'm skeptical. I do not like what Soriano brings to the table, and he doesn't get on base enough for me. I hope Lou finds his balls and banishes him to be the best 5-7 hitter in the MLB.

 

I agree.

 

Getting a guy who will hit you 30-40 HR's a year less AB's is exactly what this team needs.

 

 

 

Better than giving more to a guy who makes an out around 67% of the time he comes up.

 

The difference between making an out 67% and 60% is 20 more times on base over 300 at bats, not that huge of a deal

[Chocolate Milk]

Indeed, it would be very nice to get some production from Soriano when some of our guys come back to earth.

 

I'm skeptical. I do not like what Soriano brings to the table, and he doesn't get on base enough for me. I hope Lou finds his balls and banishes him to be the best 5-7 hitter in the MLB.

 

I agree.

 

Getting a guy who will hit you 30-40 HR's a year less AB's is exactly what this team needs.

 

Better than giving more to a guy who makes an out around 67% of the time he comes up.

Soriano has his warts but let's not try and pretend he's not a very valuable player. Guy put up a 42.1 VORP last year and a 7.6 WARP. Advocating that he get fewer at bats is more than a little silly.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

The difference between making an out 67% and 60% is 20 more times on base over 300 at bats, not that huge of a deal

 

20 extra bases and 20 fewer outs is roughly 10 runs, or roughly one win.

[Soul]

Indeed, it would be very nice to get some production from Soriano when some of our guys come back to earth.

 

I'm skeptical. I do not like what Soriano brings to the table, and he doesn't get on base enough for me. I hope Lou finds his balls and banishes him to be the best 5-7 hitter in the MLB.

 

I agree.

 

Getting a guy who will hit you 30-40 HR's a year less AB's is exactly what this team needs.

 

Better than giving more to a guy who makes an out around 67% of the time he comes up.

Soriano has his warts but let's not try and pretend he's not a very valuable player. Guy put up a 42.1 VORP last year and a 7.6 WARP. Advocating that he get fewer at bats is more than a little silly.

 

Agreed, we're going to need Soriano to get hot at some point because there's no way all these guys keep going at their current clip. Sitting him out wouldn't be wise.

[Tracer Bullet]

Indeed, it would be very nice to get some production from Soriano when some of our guys come back to earth.

 

I'm skeptical. I do not like what Soriano brings to the table, and he doesn't get on base enough for me. I hope Lou finds his balls and banishes him to be the best 5-7 hitter in the MLB.

 

I agree.

 

Getting a guy who will hit you 30-40 HR's a year less AB's is exactly what this team needs.

 

Better than giving more to a guy who makes an out around 67% of the time he comes up.

Soriano has his warts but let's not try and pretend he's not a very valuable player. Guy put up a 42.1 VORP last year and a 7.6 WARP. Advocating that he get fewer at bats is more than a little silly.

 

So you think he should get the most ABs of anyone on the team?

[RegulusBlue]

Indeed, it would be very nice to get some production from Soriano when some of our guys come back to earth.

 

I'm skeptical. I do not like what Soriano brings to the table, and he doesn't get on base enough for me. I hope Lou finds his balls and banishes him to be the best 5-7 hitter in the MLB.

 

I agree.

 

Getting a guy who will hit you 30-40 HR's a year less AB's is exactly what this team needs.

 

Better than giving more to a guy who makes an out around 67% of the time he comes up.

Soriano has his warts but let's not try and pretend he's not a very valuable player. Guy put up a 42.1 VORP last year and a 7.6 WARP. Advocating that he get fewer at bats is more than a little silly.

 

I thought this was easy to understand, but I'll lend a hand to those who stray from the path. Soriano is valuable, but he doesn't get on base at a high rate to merit batting first. His power allows his value to be increased by batting him BEHIND those who do get on base. For instance, putting him behind Lee/Aram/Fuku makes him into an RBI superhero once he starts hitting. Also, he needs to stop this whining act that he needs to bat first. Man up and help the team.

 

As someone already said, 20 ABs isn't that big of a deal, so why not trade that for several more RBIs? I got really tired of seeing solo leadoff homeruns. Why not try to put someone on base ahead of him? I hate him batting leadoff, I like him at 5. Nobody here wants to bench him.

[sneakypower]

I hope Lou finds his balls and banishes him to be the best 5-7 hitter in the MLB.

"oh crap where did i leave my testicles??"

[Abe Frohman]

I understand the RBI arguement, but is Soriano going to hit in the 5 hole? Have we established that he isn't that good with runners on base? Tough choice.

 

What I do know is I like players who have patience at the plate. They take more walks, get better pitches to hit, and the odds go up tremendously that they get mistake pitches. Soriano isn't that guy. Wish he would show more patience....

[Chocolate Milk]

Indeed, it would be very nice to get some production from Soriano when some of our guys come back to earth.

 

I'm skeptical. I do not like what Soriano brings to the table, and he doesn't get on base enough for me. I hope Lou finds his balls and banishes him to be the best 5-7 hitter in the MLB.

 

I agree.

 

Getting a guy who will hit you 30-40 HR's a year less AB's is exactly what this team needs.

 

Better than giving more to a guy who makes an out around 67% of the time he comes up.

Soriano has his warts but let's not try and pretend he's not a very valuable player. Guy put up a 42.1 VORP last year and a 7.6 WARP. Advocating that he get fewer at bats is more than a little silly.

 

So you think he should get the most ABs of anyone on the team?

Where are you getting that from? I'm just saying limiting his at bats is stupid.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Where are you getting that from? I'm just saying limiting his at bats is stupid.

 

When you bat a guy leadoff, you are making sure they get the most PAs of anyone.

[Tracer Bullet]

Indeed, it would be very nice to get some production from Soriano when some of our guys come back to earth.

 

I'm skeptical. I do not like what Soriano brings to the table, and he doesn't get on base enough for me. I hope Lou finds his balls and banishes him to be the best 5-7 hitter in the MLB.

 

I agree.

 

Getting a guy who will hit you 30-40 HR's a year less AB's is exactly what this team needs.

 

Better than giving more to a guy who makes an out around 67% of the time he comes up.

Soriano has his warts but let's not try and pretend he's not a very valuable player. Guy put up a 42.1 VORP last year and a 7.6 WARP. Advocating that he get fewer at bats is more than a little silly.

 

So you think he should get the most ABs of anyone on the team?

Where are you getting that from? I'm just saying limiting his at bats is stupid.

 

The argument started with the suggestion that Soriano be moved from the top spot to lower in the order. You said "advocating that he get fewer at bats is more than a little silly." In the top spot, he'll get the most ABs. Anywhere else, he'll get fewer than he otherwise would. You can connect the logical dots yourself, I think.

[Chocolate Milk]

I thought this was easy to understand, but I'll lend a hand to those who stray from the path.

 

We're all glad you're here to set us straight.

 

Let's face it: The lineup construction is never going to be ideal. Take a gander at the lineup today. Fontenot and Theriot are batting 1-2. It's either going to be Soriano or Theriot/Speedy guy leading off. I'll take Soriano, thanks.

[Chocolate Milk]

Indeed, it would be very nice to get some production from Soriano when some of our guys come back to earth.

 

I'm skeptical. I do not like what Soriano brings to the table, and he doesn't get on base enough for me. I hope Lou finds his balls and banishes him to be the best 5-7 hitter in the MLB.

 

I agree.

 

Getting a guy who will hit you 30-40 HR's a year less AB's is exactly what this team needs.

 

Better than giving more to a guy who makes an out around 67% of the time he comes up.

Soriano has his warts but let's not try and pretend he's not a very valuable player. Guy put up a 42.1 VORP last year and a 7.6 WARP. Advocating that he get fewer at bats is more than a little silly.

 

So you think he should get the most ABs of anyone on the team?

Where are you getting that from? I'm just saying limiting his at bats is stupid.

 

The argument started with the suggestion that Soriano be moved from the top spot to lower in the order. You said "advocating that he get fewer at bats is more than a little silly." In the top spot, he'll get the most ABs. Anywhere else, he'll get fewer than he otherwise would. You can connect the logical dots yourself, I think.

 

Guilty as charged I guess. I didn't really read the entire thread. I was just responding to the "giving more [atbats] to a guy who makes an out around 67% of the time he comes up" which I thought was overly simplistic and selling Soriano short.

 

Regulus did say that he should be batting 5-7 in the lineup, which is absurd.

 

I also don't really mind him leading off.

[frostwyrm]

I want Soriano down in the order because I hate seeing a guy hit so many XBH and have so few RBI's to show for it. Putting him at leadoff would be great if it all it did was get him more at bats, but it devalues his power way too much for my liking.

[BigbadB]

Indeed, it would be very nice to get some production from Soriano when some of our guys come back to earth.

 

I'm skeptical. I do not like what Soriano brings to the table, and he doesn't get on base enough for me. I hope Lou finds his balls and banishes him to be the best 5-7 hitter in the MLB.

 

Getting on base is only part of the equation. In the bigger picture, scoring runs is the most important stat in baseball, because runs win games, hits and walks do not.

 

Last year, Soriano led the team in runs scored and he only played in 135 games. He drove himself in 33 times via the home run. He had 45 doubles and 5 triples. Theriot, Fontenot or Reed Johnson will not provide that kind of production, so why let those guys step to the plate more often than Soriano?

 

If Theriot, Fontenot or Johnson could provide a really good OBP, then I might join the battle to move Soriano down in the order. But, they aren't assured to have an OBP any better than what Soriano provides, therefore it makes much more sense to bat Soriano at the top and allow his bat more opportunities to manufacture runs.

 

I would also argue that if you had better hitters hitting in the 6-8 in the line up, which the Cubs can very easily do with the current roster, Soriano would have a shot at 100 RBI as a lead off hitter. He had 95 in Washington as mostly a lead off hitter with a whole bunch of really crappy hitting teammates.

 

Technically, he scored 102 runs in 131 games and he drove in 81 as a lead off hitter that year. Soriano fits the mold much like Curtis Granderson and Jimmy Rollins. Neither of those guys put up stellar OBP's, but the XBH power generates a lot of runs. Guys who can generate runs with such ease should be occupying line up spots that give them as many opportunities as possible. Period.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Outs are the enemy of runs. When outs get used up, other players have fewer chances to score and drive in runs themselves. How many outs did Soriano use up last season in compiling those numbers, robbing the better hitters behind him of the chance to score and drive in runs?

[Guest]

Where are you getting that from? I'm just saying limiting his at bats is stupid.

 

When you bat a guy leadoff, you are making sure they get the most PAs of anyone.

Not if they miss a month. To make sure he'd get the most at bats of anyone on the team at this point you'd have to bench Lee for an equivalent amount of time. ;)

[Guest]

If you're going to put Soriano at leadoff, it might actually make sense to do the LaRussa/Yost thing and bat Theriot 9th.