Can Theriot actually be adequate?

[CubbieBum]

No my argument isn't he will get more line drive hits. My argument is whoever the batter is in front of great hitters will see better pitches and with better pitches they will have a better chance to get the type of hits they get. Theriot doesn't hit homeruns so he gets the other type of hits which inlcudes line drive hits.

 

 

 

 

Pie is a .215 hitter with a .271 OBP right now. Does he have loads of potential to be a heck of a lot better than that obviously he does. But potential is potential. Just because some one produces in the minors doesn't mean he will in the bigs. You don't throw a guy who has played little into leadoff unless they proved in that little time they may be able to handle it. Pie hasn't done that yet. Heck his big knock is he doesn't keep his patience. Theriot batted .266 last year and right now thats is better than Pie has shown he is capable of doing. Theriot isn't a good leadoff option but we don't have a better one other than maybe Derosa but I prefer speed at the top.

[Sammy Sofa]

Theriot isn't a good leadoff option but we don't have a better one other than maybe Derosa but I prefer speed at the top.

 

Speed is almost totally irrelevant. You want guys who can get on base and/or score. DeRosa, Fukudome, Soriano and Murton (if he was up) all make infinitely better options in the 1-2 slots. There's zero reason for a hitter as inadequate as Theriot to ever hit anything besides 7-8.

[CubbieBum]

Theriot isn't a good leadoff option but we don't have a better one other than maybe Derosa but I prefer speed at the top.

 

Speed is almost totally irrelevant. You want guys who can get on base and/or score. DeRosa, Fukudome, Soriano and Murton (if he was up) all make infinitely better options in the 1-2 slots. There's zero reason for a hitter as inadequate as Theriot to ever hit anything besides 7-8.

 

Well you can't put Fukudome at 1 or 2 when he hasn't proven anything yet. 5 is the spot for him right now. And Soriano is better at 2 but not 1. You waist Sori at 1. His OBP is really no better than Theriot. Sori swings away a lot but has great power so he needs to be at the 2 or 3.

[Sammy Sofa]

Just stop it. Stop. I'm sick of this garbage defense of a garbage player who belongs on the garbage pile with garbage like Neifi Perez. Theriot has proven nothing except he's barely a baseball player. Soriano has actually proven he's infinitely more valuable in the leadoff role because he scores runs. That's what you want your top of the order hitters to do. Theriot is worthless. WORTHLESS. It's been posted over and over and over again wih excellent and well reasoned arguments as to how bad Theriot is...at this point, some people are just refusing to see it. He's yet another Neifi.

[Rob]

No my argument isn't he will get more line drive hits. My argument is whoever the batter is in front of great hitters will see better pitches and with better pitches they will have a better chance to get the type of hits they get. Theriot doesn't hit homeruns so he gets the other type of hits which inlcudes line drive hits.

 

Pretty much everybody gets out at the same rates on flyballs (at least the ones that stay in the park) ... and with very few exceptions (read: Ichiro), most everybody gets out around the same rate on grounders. When you're talking about a guy getting more hits, the only way to do that (besides lots of seeing-eye grounders and broken-bat bloop singles... the kind of hits that how juicy the ball was don't matter on), you're talking about a guy hitting more line drives.

 

If you want anybody to believe that Theriot will get more hits because of the lineup protection, you have to prove that lineup protection has an effect on LD%. If you can't prove it, you don't have much of a case.

 

 

 

Pie is a .215 hitter with a .271 OBP right now. Does he have loads of potential to be a heck of a lot better than that obviously he does. But potential is potential. Just because some one produces in the minors doesn't mean he will in the bigs. You don't throw a guy who has played little into leadoff unless they proved in that little time they may be able to handle it. Pie hasn't done that yet. Heck his big knock is he doesn't keep his patience. Theriot batted .266 last year and right now thats is better than Pie has shown he is capable of doing. Theriot isn't a good leadoff option but we don't have a better one other than maybe Derosa but I prefer speed at the top.

 

Pie is a .215 hitter with a .271 OBP right now in limited PA at the big league level. What did he hit at AAA?

 

.362/.410/.563

 

But since you want to compare players based solely on their MLB numbers, lets go ahead and take a look at his MLEs (courtesy of baseball prospectus).

 

317/.365/.504 in 250 PA.

 

That line is adjusting his AAA line to the major league level. It is a rather harsh translation, and it is based on years and years of evidence of exactly how much offensive value players lose when making the transition. This translation, while not beyond refute, is beyond your ability to argue.

 

What this translation allows us to do is reverse engineer how many hits and walks he had based on his PA and AB, then we combine that with his bad showing in limited playing time at the major league level to get a composite line of last season, and we have a player who hit .272/.322 (BA and OBP) last season, had he been playing in the majors from Day 1.

 

Raw doubles/triples/home runs totals are harder to pull from his MLE's, so we wont even attempt to. But each and every single person knows exactly how punchless Theriot is, while observing that Pie actually has decent pop.

 

So we have the choice of a player who hit .262/.326 last season (with no power), or one who hit .272/.322 (with good power).

 

Hopefully that finally ends the Pie/Theriot debate as to whom the better hitter is. It isn't even a contest.

 

As to the rest of your post...

 

1.) I have never suggested Pie belongs in the leadoff spot... just that Theriot belongs as far away from it as possible.

 

2.) Speed is a secondary skill, not a primary one. It will never make your eighth best hitter suited to get the most plate appearances. If there's a huge discrepancy, it might be enough to get him the seventh most plate appearances. But don't allow yourself to get pigeonholed into the idea of the speedy leadoff hitter. It's a myth, and it doesn't help ballclubs.

[CubbieBum]

Just stop it. Stop. I'm sick of this garbage defense of a garbage player who belongs on the garbage pile with garbage like Neifi Perez. Theriot has proven nothing except he's barely a baseball player. Soriano has actually proven he's infinitely more valuable in the leadoff role because he scores runs. That's what you want your top of the order hitters to do. Theriot is worthless. WORTHLESS. It's been posted over and over and over again wih excellent and well reasoned arguments as to how bad Theriot is...at this point, some people are just refusing to see it. He's yet another Neifi.

 

Yeah Theriot is another Neifi except he plays all out and doesn't make stupid boneheaded mistakes. And Theriot scored 80 runs last year. If he batted leadoff all year he would score 110. Thats not worthless. Theriot isn't great by any stretch of the imagination but he has okay. You can't have a Sori or anything close to it at every position.

[Sammy Sofa]

Just stop it. Stop. I'm sick of this garbage defense of a garbage player who belongs on the garbage pile with garbage like Neifi Perez. Theriot has proven nothing except he's barely a baseball player. Soriano has actually proven he's infinitely more valuable in the leadoff role because he scores runs. That's what you want your top of the order hitters to do. Theriot is worthless. WORTHLESS. It's been posted over and over and over again wih excellent and well reasoned arguments as to how bad Theriot is...at this point, some people are just refusing to see it. He's yet another Neifi.

 

Yeah Theriot is another Neifi except he plays all out and doesn't make stupid boneheaded mistakes. And Theriot scored 80 runs last year. If he batted leadoff all year he would score 110. Thats not worthless. Theriot isn't great by any stretch of the imagination but he has okay. You can't have a Sori or anything close to it at every position.

 

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

What would you put an "OK" player in the slot that sees the most AB's?

 

"Plays all out" means zilch. And please explain how Theriot is "mistake-free" and Neifi was making them left and right in such stark contrast? THEY'RE BOTH AWFUL BASEBALL PLAYERS WHO SHOULD NOT START.

[Rob]

Just stop it. Stop. I'm sick of this garbage defense of a garbage player who belongs on the garbage pile with garbage like Neifi Perez. Theriot has proven nothing except he's barely a baseball player. Soriano has actually proven he's infinitely more valuable in the leadoff role because he scores runs. That's what you want your top of the order hitters to do. Theriot is worthless. WORTHLESS. It's been posted over and over and over again wih excellent and well reasoned arguments as to how bad Theriot is...at this point, some people are just refusing to see it. He's yet another Neifi.

 

Yeah Theriot is another Neifi except he plays all out and doesn't make stupid boneheaded mistakes. And Theriot scored 80 runs last year. If he batted leadoff all year he would score 110. Thats not worthless. Theriot isn't great by any stretch of the imagination but he has okay. You can't have a Sori or anything close to it at every position.

 

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

What would you put an "OK" player in the slot that sees the most AB's?

 

"Plays all out" means zilch. And please explain how Theriot is "mistake-free" and Neifi was making them left and right in such stark contrast? THEY'RE BOTH AWFUL BASEBALL PLAYERS WHO SHOULD NOT START.

 

Please don't give him an excuse to argue with you and ignore my post. I think I'd really like to see his response to it.

[CubbieBum]

Just stop it. Stop. I'm sick of this garbage defense of a garbage player who belongs on the garbage pile with garbage like Neifi Perez. Theriot has proven nothing except he's barely a baseball player. Soriano has actually proven he's infinitely more valuable in the leadoff role because he scores runs. That's what you want your top of the order hitters to do. Theriot is worthless. WORTHLESS. It's been posted over and over and over again wih excellent and well reasoned arguments as to how bad Theriot is...at this point, some people are just refusing to see it. He's yet another Neifi.

 

Yeah Theriot is another Neifi except he plays all out and doesn't make stupid boneheaded mistakes. And Theriot scored 80 runs last year. If he batted leadoff all year he would score 110. Thats not worthless. Theriot isn't great by any stretch of the imagination but he has okay. You can't have a Sori or anything close to it at every position.

 

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

What would you put an "OK" player in the slot that sees the most AB's?

 

"Plays all out" means zilch. And please explain how Theriot is "mistake-free" and Neifi was making them left and right in such stark contrast? THEY'RE BOTH AWFUL BASEBALL PLAYERS WHO SHOULD NOT START.

 

 

Who should bat lead off instead??? Yet to see you suggest one. We just don't have a better option.

[Vanilla Ice]

Just stop it. Stop. I'm sick of this garbage defense of a garbage player who belongs on the garbage pile with garbage like Neifi Perez. Theriot has proven nothing except he's barely a baseball player. Soriano has actually proven he's infinitely more valuable in the leadoff role because he scores runs. That's what you want your top of the order hitters to do. Theriot is worthless. WORTHLESS. It's been posted over and over and over again wih excellent and well reasoned arguments as to how bad Theriot is...at this point, some people are just refusing to see it. He's yet another Neifi.

 

Yeah Theriot is another Neifi except he plays all out and doesn't make stupid boneheaded mistakes. And Theriot scored 80 runs last year. If he batted leadoff all year he would score 110. Thats not worthless. Theriot isn't great by any stretch of the imagination but he has okay. You can't have a Sori or anything close to it at every position.

 

Scoring a lot of runs does not make you a good baseball player.

[Andy]

Just stop it. Stop. I'm sick of this garbage defense of a garbage player who belongs on the garbage pile with garbage like Neifi Perez. Theriot has proven nothing except he's barely a baseball player. Soriano has actually proven he's infinitely more valuable in the leadoff role because he scores runs. That's what you want your top of the order hitters to do. Theriot is worthless. WORTHLESS. It's been posted over and over and over again wih excellent and well reasoned arguments as to how bad Theriot is...at this point, some people are just refusing to see it. He's yet another Neifi.

 

Yeah Theriot is another Neifi except he plays all out and doesn't make stupid boneheaded mistakes. And Theriot scored 80 runs last year. If he batted leadoff all year he would score 110. Thats not worthless. Theriot isn't great by any stretch of the imagination but he has okay. You can't have a Sori or anything close to it at every position.

 

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

What would you put an "OK" player in the slot that sees the most AB's?

 

"Plays all out" means zilch. And please explain how Theriot is "mistake-free" and Neifi was making them left and right in such stark contrast? THEY'RE BOTH AWFUL BASEBALL PLAYERS WHO SHOULD NOT START.

 

 

Who should bat lead off instead??? Yet to see you suggest one. We just don't have a better option.

DeRosa. Fukudome. Soriano. Any hitter on this 25-man roster, save perhaps Pie (keep the pressure off him) and Fontenot is a better option than Theriot.

[anabiono]

Just stop it. Stop. I'm sick of this garbage defense of a garbage player who belongs on the garbage pile with garbage like Neifi Perez. Theriot has proven nothing except he's barely a baseball player. Soriano has actually proven he's infinitely more valuable in the leadoff role because he scores runs. That's what you want your top of the order hitters to do. Theriot is worthless. WORTHLESS. It's been posted over and over and over again wih excellent and well reasoned arguments as to how bad Theriot is...at this point, some people are just refusing to see it. He's yet another Neifi.

 

Yeah Theriot is another Neifi except he plays all out and doesn't make stupid boneheaded mistakes. And Theriot scored 80 runs last year. If he batted leadoff all year he would score 110. Thats not worthless. Theriot isn't great by any stretch of the imagination but he has okay. You can't have a Sori or anything close to it at every position.

 

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

What would you put an "OK" player in the slot that sees the most AB's?

 

"Plays all out" means zilch. And please explain how Theriot is "mistake-free" and Neifi was making them left and right in such stark contrast? THEY'RE BOTH AWFUL BASEBALL PLAYERS WHO SHOULD NOT START.

 

 

Who should bat lead off instead??? Yet to see you suggest one. We just don't have a better option.

 

holy crap!!!

 

yes we do

 

koske

 

simple

 

done done and doner

[Rob]

I saw that dodge-job coming. Excellent, irrefutable argument... I don't know why I expected a reply.

[CubbieBum]

Just stop it. Stop. I'm sick of this garbage defense of a garbage player who belongs on the garbage pile with garbage like Neifi Perez. Theriot has proven nothing except he's barely a baseball player. Soriano has actually proven he's infinitely more valuable in the leadoff role because he scores runs. That's what you want your top of the order hitters to do. Theriot is worthless. WORTHLESS. It's been posted over and over and over again wih excellent and well reasoned arguments as to how bad Theriot is...at this point, some people are just refusing to see it. He's yet another Neifi.

 

Yeah Theriot is another Neifi except he plays all out and doesn't make stupid boneheaded mistakes. And Theriot scored 80 runs last year. If he batted leadoff all year he would score 110. Thats not worthless. Theriot isn't great by any stretch of the imagination but he has okay. You can't have a Sori or anything close to it at every position.

 

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

What would you put an "OK" player in the slot that sees the most AB's?

 

"Plays all out" means zilch. And please explain how Theriot is "mistake-free" and Neifi was making them left and right in such stark contrast? THEY'RE BOTH AWFUL BASEBALL PLAYERS WHO SHOULD NOT START.

 

 

Who should bat lead off instead??? Yet to see you suggest one. We just don't have a better option.

DeRosa. Fukudome. Soriano. Any hitter on this 25-man roster, save perhaps Pie (keep the pressure off him) and Fontenot is a better option than Theriot.

 

Fukudome needs to prove he can play in the bigs for a couple weeks first but here and a month or so I could see him being there. Derosa I slightly prefer over Theriot. Soriano is wasted in lead off. You want to use his power in 2 or 3 slot. And how Fontenot better than Theriot. His stats last year are comparable to Theriot's and he batted in good situations a lot last year rather than just playing a whole game.

 

Maybe we should have kept Floyd. He had a great OBP last year :roll: .

[CubbieBum]

Just stop it. Stop. I'm sick of this garbage defense of a garbage player who belongs on the garbage pile with garbage like Neifi Perez. Theriot has proven nothing except he's barely a baseball player. Soriano has actually proven he's infinitely more valuable in the leadoff role because he scores runs. That's what you want your top of the order hitters to do. Theriot is worthless. WORTHLESS. It's been posted over and over and over again wih excellent and well reasoned arguments as to how bad Theriot is...at this point, some people are just refusing to see it. He's yet another Neifi.

 

Yeah Theriot is another Neifi except he plays all out and doesn't make stupid boneheaded mistakes. And Theriot scored 80 runs last year. If he batted leadoff all year he would score 110. Thats not worthless. Theriot isn't great by any stretch of the imagination but he has okay. You can't have a Sori or anything close to it at every position.

 

Scoring a lot of runs does not make you a good baseball player.

 

I agree I said that because of what he said in the post I quoted. I bolded it for you.

[Rob]

Just stop it. Stop. I'm sick of this garbage defense of a garbage player who belongs on the garbage pile with garbage like Neifi Perez. Theriot has proven nothing except he's barely a baseball player. Soriano has actually proven he's infinitely more valuable in the leadoff role because he scores runs. That's what you want your top of the order hitters to do. Theriot is worthless. WORTHLESS. It's been posted over and over and over again wih excellent and well reasoned arguments as to how bad Theriot is...at this point, some people are just refusing to see it. He's yet another Neifi.

 

Yeah Theriot is another Neifi except he plays all out and doesn't make stupid boneheaded mistakes. And Theriot scored 80 runs last year. If he batted leadoff all year he would score 110. Thats not worthless. Theriot isn't great by any stretch of the imagination but he has okay. You can't have a Sori or anything close to it at every position.

 

Scoring a lot of runs does not make you a good baseball player.

 

I agree I said that because of what he said in the post I quoted. I bolded it for you.

 

In case you missed it the first time, I'll bold what I have to say.

 

No my argument isn't he will get more line drive hits. My argument is whoever the batter is in front of great hitters will see better pitches and with better pitches they will have a better chance to get the type of hits they get. Theriot doesn't hit homeruns so he gets the other type of hits which inlcudes line drive hits.

 

Pretty much everybody gets out at the same rates on flyballs (at least the ones that stay in the park) ... and with very few exceptions (read: Ichiro), most everybody gets out around the same rate on grounders. When you're talking about a guy getting more hits, the only way to do that (besides lots of seeing-eye grounders and broken-bat bloop singles... the kind of hits that how juicy the ball was don't matter on), you're talking about a guy hitting more line drives.

 

If you want anybody to believe that Theriot will get more hits because of the lineup protection, you have to prove that lineup protection has an effect on LD%. If you can't prove it, you don't have much of a case.

 

 

 

Pie is a .215 hitter with a .271 OBP right now. Does he have loads of potential to be a heck of a lot better than that obviously he does. But potential is potential. Just because some one produces in the minors doesn't mean he will in the bigs. You don't throw a guy who has played little into leadoff unless they proved in that little time they may be able to handle it. Pie hasn't done that yet. Heck his big knock is he doesn't keep his patience. Theriot batted .266 last year and right now thats is better than Pie has shown he is capable of doing. Theriot isn't a good leadoff option but we don't have a better one other than maybe Derosa but I prefer speed at the top.

 

Pie is a .215 hitter with a .271 OBP right now in limited PA at the big league level. What did he hit at AAA?

 

.362/.410/.563

 

But since you want to compare players based solely on their MLB numbers, lets go ahead and take a look at his MLEs (courtesy of baseball prospectus).

 

317/.365/.504 in 250 PA.

 

That line is adjusting his AAA line to the major league level. It is a rather harsh translation, and it is based on years and years of evidence of exactly how much offensive value players lose when making the transition. This translation, while not beyond refute, is beyond your ability to argue.

 

What this translation allows us to do is reverse engineer how many hits and walks he had based on his PA and AB, then we combine that with his bad showing in limited playing time at the major league level to get a composite line of last season, and we have a player who hit .272/.322 (BA and OBP) last season, had he been playing in the majors from Day 1.

 

Raw doubles/triples/home runs totals are harder to pull from his MLE's, so we wont even attempt to. But each and every single person knows exactly how punchless Theriot is, while observing that Pie actually has decent pop.

 

So we have the choice of a player who hit .262/.326 last season (with no power), or one who hit .272/.322 (with good power).

 

Hopefully that finally ends the Pie/Theriot debate as to whom the better hitter is. It isn't even a contest.

 

As to the rest of your post...

 

1.) I have never suggested Pie belongs in the leadoff spot... just that Theriot belongs as far away from it as possible.

 

2.) Speed is a secondary skill, not a primary one. It will never make your eighth best hitter suited to get the most plate appearances. If there's a huge discrepancy, it might be enough to get him the seventh most plate appearances. But don't allow yourself to get pigeonholed into the idea of the speedy leadoff hitter. It's a myth, and it doesn't help ballclubs.

 

Don't mock others for their reading comprehension when you're just cherry picking arguments.

[CubbieBum]

When have I mocked someone? I've argued. They are two different things. And until Pie proves it at the big league level I'm not calling him a better hitter. There are a long list of people who do great in minors but never can do it in the bigs.

[anabiono]

When have I mocked someone? I've argued. They are two different things. And until Pie proves it at the big league level I'm not calling him a better hitter. There are a long list of people who do great in minors but never can do it in the bigs.

 

lol, so you would rather have theriot suck at lead off instead of fukudome doing the same thing till he becomes adjusted?!??

 

really!??!

[Rob]

When have I mocked someone? I've argued. They are two different things. And until Pie proves it at the big league level I'm not calling him a better hitter. There are a long list of people who do great in minors but never can do it in the bigs.

 

Forgive me if I read too much into your bolding. It seemed somewhat conceited.

 

At any rate, I'd sincerely love to hear why you think you know more than the people who designed the translations.

 

It'd be one thing if you were just saying you're more comfortable that you know what Theriot is capable of. But to argue that he's actually a better hitter is simply letting yourself be so risk-averse as to cloud your judgement.

 

Give Pie the everyday job at the beginning of the season, and it would take a huge collapse to even make them comparable hitters. Maybe a 10-15% chance of that happening? Ryan Theriot simply is not a major-league caliber hitter...

[ConstableRabbit]

Why even respond to such posts with any fervor at all? It seems like whenever someone posts here who doesn't know what they're talking about (e.g. uses non-rate or other essentially useless stats to back up a point) 50 people jump at the chance to "educate" those who simply don't want to learn. Then there's a lot of frustration when the individual who knows very little about the kind of baseball we talk about does not understand our methodologies. Why not save your breath?

[Rob]

Why even respond to such posts with any fervor at all? It seems like whenever someone posts here who doesn't know what they're talking about (e.g. uses non-rate or other essentially useless stats to back up a point) 50 people jump at the chance to "educate" those who simply don't want to learn. Then there's a lot of frustration when the individual who knows very little about the kind of baseball we talk about does not understand our methodologies. Why not save your breath?

 

Well in this particular case, it finally occurred to me that I could combine his AAA MLEs with his actual MLB stat line. And after I had done so, I couldn't help but laugh at the fact that he performed almost exactly as well as Theriot in AVG/OBP last year, and obviously beats him badly in SLG... and yet some people still think Theriot is somehow better.

 

I mean, really...

 

Pie - .272/.322

Theriot - .266/.326

 

That's pretty neat. And I don't recall anybody else trying to combine Pie's disparate performances into one stat line. So of course I feel the need to brag, and to be acknowledged for discovering this little tidbit.

[Andy]

I acknowledge your discovery of that tidbit, Rob.

 

:twisted:

[Rob]

I acknowledge your discovery of that tidbit, Rob.

 

:twisted:

 

That's all I ever wanted.

 

:yahoo:

 

(we need a hug emoticon)

[CubbieBum]

When have I mocked someone? I've argued. They are two different things. And until Pie proves it at the big league level I'm not calling him a better hitter. There are a long list of people who do great in minors but never can do it in the bigs.

 

Forgive me if I read too much into your bolding. It seemed somewhat conceited.

 

At any rate, I'd sincerely love to hear why you think you know more than the people who designed the translations.

 

It'd be one thing if you were just saying you're more comfortable that you know what Theriot is capable of. But to argue that he's actually a better hitter is simply letting yourself be so risk-averse as to cloud your judgement.

 

Give Pie the everyday job at the beginning of the season, and it would take a huge collapse to even make them comparable hitters. Maybe a 10-15% chance of that happening? Ryan Theriot simply is not a major-league caliber hitter...

 

Why do you think you know more than me. I mean that kind of comes hand and hand with arguments. You think you are right (hence know more ) and I the same. Who's wrong, who knows like in 99% of the debates on message boards you can't prove one another wrong you can just argue and state you position.

 

I don't want Pie to start the season in lead off. If he struggles out of the gates as many hitters do his confidence could disappear. You don't want to put too much on a young player too soon. You can ruin him. Look at Patterson. If we had done what we should have done right off the bat and made him bat 7th and make him learn disapline he may have been a good player.

 

And the only reason I bolded that part was because someone responded to my saying Theriot scored 80 runs last year by saying runs don't matter. I bolded so he knew the only reason I brought up Theriot's runs was because someone had said Soriano was better because he could score.

 

I will clarify one last time because we are beating a dead horse on this with neither of us willing to back done. I don't think theriot is a great or good player. I think he is average and the best option we got right now. That may very well change if Pie can do half as well as he did in minors last year or even if Fukudome shows he has great patience and can hit in MLB. The thread said can Theriot be "adequate." Adequate to be is average and that is what he is.

[TruffleShuffle]

Adequate to be is average and that is what he is.

 

no, he is definitely below average. "average" would mean that the number of starting shortstops who are better than him is roughly equal to the number of starting shortstops who are worse than him. i suspect you'll be hard pressed to come up with more than 5 starting shortstops who are worse than theriot.