More Murton to SD whispers

[David]

cool another thread thats going to last 100 pages without very substantial trade talk........

 

Dear Lord, who cares how long a thread is? Especially when they end up inflated due to people poitnlessly commenting on how long the thread is?

 

I feel bad for all the people who bravely come to these threads, even if multiple thread pages apparently crashes their computer or slashes their tires or gives them cancer.

 

 

I've been thinking this but not saying it for a while now. Who really cares how long a thread is?

[nilodnayr]

 

I didn't put Pie 8th because I'd rather him not hit in front of the pitcher. I'd like to give him some protection so pitchers won't be able to just throw him junk. I'd be fine flipping DeRo and Soto.

 

Even if DeRosa hits as well as he did last year, hes still not anywhere near one of our better hitters. Our best hitters should be getting the most at bats, hence our best hitters should be at the top of the order.

 

I agree about protecting Pie, but he has to earn in ST. Its more important to get as many runners on base for Lee, Ramirez, and whoever the #5 is than it is to protect Pie. Bottom line is right now he is not one of our better hitters. He could become one, but right now he isn't. Derosa right now has a 3 year split of .288/.359 which is pretty much identical to what he put up last year outside of a higher OBP last season. Our top two hitters in the lineup need to create as many run scoring chances as possible for our "best hitters" Lee and Ramirez. Derosa, Murton, and Fukudome give us that.

 

By protection I meant batting him 7th, NOT 2nd.

[Wolfgangbucks]

cool another thread thats going to last 100 pages without very substantial trade talk........

 

Dear Lord, who cares how long a thread is? Especially when they end up inflated due to people pointlessly commenting on how long the thread is?

 

I feel bad for all the people who bravely come to these threads, even if multiple thread pages apparently crashes their computer or slashes their tires or gives them cancer.

 

I had to have a tooth filled the other day for the first time in years. I believe my tooth decay is a result of the Brian Roberts thread.

[Soul]

cool another thread thats going to last 100 pages without very substantial trade talk........

 

Dear Lord, who cares how long a thread is? Especially when they end up inflated due to people pointlessly commenting on how long the thread is?

 

I feel bad for all the people who bravely come to these threads, even if multiple thread pages apparently crashes their computer or slashes their tires or gives them cancer.

 

I had to have a tooth filled the other day for the first time in years. I believe my tooth decay is a result of the Brian Roberts thread.

 

Get all your teeth replaced with implants. It will save you a lot of trouble.

[badnews]

I agree, this board is getting to be a pain in the ass because of all the vacuous, "clever" observations on the Brian Roberts topic. I come here to read baseball posts, not people repeating the same crap that wasn't clever two weeks ago over and over again that's not even baseball related.

 

In short, if you've ever posted in the Brian Roberts topic "Wow, this topic is long!" "This topic is a monster that will eat everything in its path!" "This topic will not die!" "This topic is like a slasher killer that won't die!" "I love this topic!" "This is the BEST. TOPIC. EVER," then you are sheep and I hate you.

 

I hope every topic that goes over 5 pages can be free of these dip**** observations and just focus on the baseball, I wasn't this put out when it was just the original garbage heap topic, but now people need to include it everywhere. I think these are the same people who went around screaming "All Your Base Is Belong To Us" incessantly in 2001. We can tell when topics are long and pointless, nobody needs 50 duplicate idiot posts pointing that out.

 

Sorry if that's rude, but it's juvenile crap like this that's made other message boards off-limits, I'd like not to see it happen here.

 

Anyway, back to BASEBALL, I'm not a fan of putting Pie anywhere near the top of the lineup just to try and mask the fact that he's probably not going to be especially good one way or the other. Batting 7th seems fine for Pie, if you look at Alex Gordon's splits, batting 7th didn't hurt him, Kouzmanoff progressed well at the back of the lineup for San Diego throughout the season, etc.

[brinoch]

Anyway, back to BASEBALL, I'm not a fan of putting Pie anywhere near the top of the lineup just to try and mask the fact that he's probably not going to be especially good one way or the other. Batting 7th seems fine for Pie, if you look at Alex Gordon's splits, batting 7th didn't hurt him, Kouzmanoff progressed well at the back of the lineup for San Diego throughout the season, etc.

 

I think Pie will be fine. He was 22 last year and posted a .973 OPS in AAA. Sure, he struggled at the MLB level. Not every prospect is Pujols. Here's what I would do with Pie: let him play. Let him learn. Don't platoon him. He's hit at every level, while being young for his level. He does need to work on his plate discipline and taking walks, but he's shown the capacity to improve. Bat him 7th and let him learn.

[badnews]

His strikeout rate, K/BB ratio, and the fact that he hasn't shown breakout power like a Chris Young or Adam Jones worries me though. The first two more than the last one. Guys like that always worry me, it's the reason I thought the A's could've done a little better than Carlos Gonzalez in the Haren trade. I don't have much faith in him but would love to be proven wrong.

 

The 7th spot does seem ideal. A lot of questionable rooks have cut their teeth and progressed well from the #7 spot. The pressure's off down there, and you're not right ahead of the pitcher (unless we're doing like the Cardinals last year).

[cubbyvirus00]

I agree, this board is getting to be a pain in the ass because of all the vacuous, "clever" observations on the Brian Roberts topic. I come here to read baseball posts, not people repeating the same crap that wasn't clever two weeks ago over and over again that's not even baseball related.

 

In short, if you've ever posted in the Brian Roberts topic "Wow, this topic is long!" "This topic is a monster that will eat everything in its path!" "This topic will not die!" "This topic is like a slasher killer that won't die!" "I love this topic!" "This is the BEST. TOPIC. EVER," then you are sheep and I hate you.

 

I hope every topic that goes over 5 pages can be free of these dip**** observations and just focus on the baseball, I wasn't this put out when it was just the original garbage heap topic, but now people need to include it everywhere. I think these are the same people who went around screaming "All Your Base Is Belong To Us" incessantly in 2001. We can tell when topics are long and pointless, nobody needs 50 duplicate idiot posts pointing that out.

 

Sorry if that's rude, but it's juvenile crap like this that's made other message boards off-limits, I'd like not to see it happen here.

 

Anyway, back to BASEBALL, I'm not a fan of putting Pie anywhere near the top of the lineup just to try and mask the fact that he's probably not going to be especially good one way or the other. Batting 7th seems fine for Pie, if you look at Alex Gordon's splits, batting 7th didn't hurt him, Kouzmanoff progressed well at the back of the lineup for San Diego throughout the season, etc.

 

 

Overreaction much???? I stated this topic was long, and not relevant, because there are ZERO facts that the Padres/Cubs are considering this. So people are gonna rant and rave about Pie now, instead of discussing a trade or substantial trade rumors. Some of us visit threads just to look at the news and see whats going on. So when a thread is 150 pages with 149 being garbage and arguments on what prospect is better for what team.......it ruins the fact for some of us that don't wanna be on NSBB for 30 min.

[BigbadB]

Overreaction much???? I stated this topic was long, and not relevant, because there are ZERO facts that the Padres/Cubs are considering this. So people are gonna rant and rave about Pie now, instead of discussing a trade or substantial trade rumors. Some of us visit threads just to look at the news and see whats going on. So when a thread is 150 pages with 149 being garbage and arguments on what prospect is better for what team.......it ruins the fact for some of us that don't wanna be on NSBB for 30 min.

 

Here are the facts:

 

Murton is on the trade block

The Cubs have other close to major league ready prospects that are blocked

The Cubs are trying to improve the offense

Hendry isn't afraid to trade some of these young kids if it will improve the team

The Cubs have a tremendous hole at SS

Hendry has shown his interest in Greene in the past

The Padres are looking for LF help

Khalil Greene rejected a long term deal in SD because he wants to be out east.

Khalil Greene will be playing for a big contract in the next couple of years, and playing in Wrigley increases his chances of doing just that over playing in San Diego.

The Padres are a small market team and prefer cheaper talent if they can get it.

Hendry and Towers have worked deals in the past.

 

Is it really that silly to discuss a potential deal between the Padres and Cubs that could potentially help both teams? Is it really that farfetched? It makes tremendous sense to at least discuss what would be necessary for each team to walk away happy with a deal.

 

Is it likely to happen? Probably not. Should everyone at NSBB just give up on discussions that are likely not going to happen? Maybe. But, I personally enjoy discussing deals that could make this team better.

 

Should the title be changed so as not to inconvenience a few people who don't want to read a baseball discussion? Maybe. But, lately I've only had about 30 minutes worth of time to browse the forums and that's been more than enough time to read through just about everything I want to see.

 

And of the 30 minutes I have had time to browse, I've found it much more annoying having to filter through the "here we go with another 135 page thread" posts rather than actual "potential baseball transaction discussions", which is what this forum is for.

[Sammy Sofa]

I agree, this board is getting to be a pain in the ass because of all the vacuous, "clever" observations on the Brian Roberts topic. I come here to read baseball posts, not people repeating the same crap that wasn't clever two weeks ago over and over again that's not even baseball related.

 

In short, if you've ever posted in the Brian Roberts topic "Wow, this topic is long!" "This topic is a monster that will eat everything in its path!" "This topic will not die!" "This topic is like a slasher killer that won't die!" "I love this topic!" "This is the BEST. TOPIC. EVER," then you are sheep and I hate you.

 

I hope every topic that goes over 5 pages can be free of these dip**** observations and just focus on the baseball, I wasn't this put out when it was just the original garbage heap topic, but now people need to include it everywhere. I think these are the same people who went around screaming "All Your Base Is Belong To Us" incessantly in 2001. We can tell when topics are long and pointless, nobody needs 50 duplicate idiot posts pointing that out.

 

Sorry if that's rude, but it's juvenile crap like this that's made other message boards off-limits, I'd like not to see it happen here.

 

Anyway, back to BASEBALL, I'm not a fan of putting Pie anywhere near the top of the lineup just to try and mask the fact that he's probably not going to be especially good one way or the other. Batting 7th seems fine for Pie, if you look at Alex Gordon's splits, batting 7th didn't hurt him, Kouzmanoff progressed well at the back of the lineup for San Diego throughout the season, etc.

 

 

Overreaction much???? I stated this topic was long, and not relevant, because there are ZERO facts that the Padres/Cubs are considering this. So people are gonna rant and rave about Pie now, instead of discussing a trade or substantial trade rumors. Some of us visit threads just to look at the news and see whats going on. So when a thread is 150 pages with 149 being garbage and arguments on what prospect is better for what team.......it ruins the fact for some of us that don't wanna be on NSBB for 30 min.

 

So, in your frustration over a "cluttered" thread....you're going to clutter it up some more?

[dew1679666265]

Anyway, back to BASEBALL, I'm not a fan of putting Pie anywhere near the top of the lineup just to try and mask the fact that he's probably not going to be especially good one way or the other. Batting 7th seems fine for Pie, if you look at Alex Gordon's splits, batting 7th didn't hurt him, Kouzmanoff progressed well at the back of the lineup for San Diego throughout the season, etc.

 

I think Pie will be fine. He was 22 last year and posted a .973 OPS in AAA. Sure, he struggled at the MLB level. Not every prospect is Pujols. Here's what I would do with Pie: let him play. Let him learn. Don't platoon him. He's hit at every level, while being young for his level. He does need to work on his plate discipline and taking walks, but he's shown the capacity to improve. Bat him 7th and let him learn.

 

I agree with everything you said except for not platooning him. Felix has learned to hit at every level against rightys, but has never hit lefties worth crap.

 

I'd be alright with just letting him play no matter the pitcher, but it could also help alleviate some pressure from him to not have to face pitchers he's historically never been able to hit.

 

I wouldn't give Murton for Byrd just to get him a platoon partner, but I think having one could help both Felix and the offensive production.

[pitchcs]

Anyway, back to BASEBALL, I'm not a fan of putting Pie anywhere near the top of the lineup just to try and mask the fact that he's probably not going to be especially good one way or the other. Batting 7th seems fine for Pie, if you look at Alex Gordon's splits, batting 7th didn't hurt him, Kouzmanoff progressed well at the back of the lineup for San Diego throughout the season, etc.

 

I think Pie will be fine. He was 22 last year and posted a .973 OPS in AAA. Sure, he struggled at the MLB level. Not every prospect is Pujols. Here's what I would do with Pie: let him play. Let him learn. Don't platoon him. He's hit at every level, while being young for his level. He does need to work on his plate discipline and taking walks, but he's shown the capacity to improve. Bat him 7th and let him learn.

 

I agree with everything you said except for not platooning him. Felix has learned to hit at every level against rightys, but has never hit lefties worth crap.

 

I'd be alright with just letting him play no matter the pitcher, but it could also help alleviate some pressure from him to not have to face pitchers he's historically never been able to hit.

 

I wouldn't give Murton for Byrd just to get him a platoon partner, but I think having one could help both Felix and the offensive production.

 

 

Totally agree dew. If we were not a contender then I would let him play against LH & RH. But since we are, there's no reason not to platoon him, at least for the 1st half of the season.

[javy knows my name]

getting on base does matter. It drives me nuts when people say it doesn't. Again, look at the red sox lineup. Those guys take pitches & get on base. They work counts & get into the opponent's bullpen. It forces the other team to throw strikes which creates better hitters as they eventually see better pitches to hit earlier in the count. Putting Khalil Greene's 3-1 strikeout to walk ratio, .250 average & sub .300 OBP onto this team that is already dreadfully full of these guys (including our overpriced leadoff hitter) makes no sense. We were swept out of the playoffs for a reason...because we did not get on base so that our better hitters mattered when they came up. Khalil Greene does have power although he's only shown it for one year & this team already has enough power hitters. What it needs is more speed, more patient hitters & better placed hitters in the lineup. A closer as well as another 1-3 starter is needed but first things first. This team used to be built by putting together a slowpitch softball hitting lineup. That doesn't work in the major leagues anymore.

I'm thanking my lucky stars you don't run our team.

Edited January 27, 2008 by Castro's Spray Chart

[Soul]

Anyway, back to BASEBALL, I'm not a fan of putting Pie anywhere near the top of the lineup just to try and mask the fact that he's probably not going to be especially good one way or the other. Batting 7th seems fine for Pie, if you look at Alex Gordon's splits, batting 7th didn't hurt him, Kouzmanoff progressed well at the back of the lineup for San Diego throughout the season, etc.

 

I think Pie will be fine. He was 22 last year and posted a .973 OPS in AAA. Sure, he struggled at the MLB level. Not every prospect is Pujols. Here's what I would do with Pie: let him play. Let him learn. Don't platoon him. He's hit at every level, while being young for his level. He does need to work on his plate discipline and taking walks, but he's shown the capacity to improve. Bat him 7th and let him learn.

 

I agree with everything you said except for not platooning him. Felix has learned to hit at every level against rightys, but has never hit lefties worth crap.

 

I'd be alright with just letting him play no matter the pitcher, but it could also help alleviate some pressure from him to not have to face pitchers he's historically never been able to hit.

 

I wouldn't give Murton for Byrd just to get him a platoon partner, but I think having one could help both Felix and the offensive production.

 

 

Totally agree dew. If we were not a contender then I would let him play against LH & RH. But since we are, there's no reason not to platoon him, at least for the 1st half of the season.

 

Yeah if we're going to play Pie full-time and let him learn, then I wonder how long he would be kept in if he doesn't produce anything. I'd rather put him in situations where he's more likely to succeed to build his confidence.

[Guest]

Go scan the Red Sox roster & look at their obp stats. They showed the rest how it is done .

 

Jason Varitek: .367 OBP, 122 K's

Kevin Youkilis: .390 OBP, 105 K's

J.D. Drew: .373 OBP, 100 K's

David Ortiz: .445 OBP, 103 K's

 

Just to add to your list:

 

Manny Ramirez has averaged 112 strikeouts per year from 1995 through last year and has only had less than 100 K's in three years. He also had a average OBP over .400 and an average OPS over 1.000.

[javy knows my name]

Go scan the Red Sox roster & look at their obp stats. They showed the rest how it is done .

 

Jason Varitek: .367 OBP, 122 K's

Kevin Youkilis: .390 OBP, 105 K's

J.D. Drew: .373 OBP, 100 K's

David Ortiz: .445 OBP, 103 K's

 

Just to add to your list:

 

Manny Ramirez has averaged 112 strikeouts per year from 1995 through last year and has only had less than 100 K's in three years. He also had a average OBP over .400 and an average OPS over 1.000.

Yeah, he's good. Is the state of the Hall of Fame voting such that they could keep him out for his k's and overall jerkness and ignore those numbers? I'll bet Woody Paige could, but would likely reconsider if he ever ended up playing for the Rockies