Ty Cobb, etc. (split from Arod thread)

[OleMissCub]

The mistake I think you're making is when you consider Cobb's equal opportunity violence as unique and proof he's not a violent racist.

 

I would contend that almost every violent racist is first, a violent person. In my experience, those people are often in physical altercations because they're hateful people. So they probably have a long resume of fights and violence, and sometimes only a small percentage is against people of a different ethnicity. However, that doesn't mean they're not violent racists.

 

I think we're talking semantics here. Yes, he was violent. Yes, he was racist. So I suppose that would make him a violent racist on occassion.

 

So sure, Cobb beat down a few whities in his day. Congratulations? But that doesn't mitigate the fact he was racist and that propelled him into several documented (and probably a few undocumented) cases against blacks.

 

Whities?

[OleMissCub]

do you think it's fair that the first thing people think about when you mention Mike Tyson is his out-of-the-ring craziness?

 

I get the example you are trying to make, but Cobb was a loose cannon with a horrible and violent disposition on occassion, just a plain old hick douche....Tyson is an uncontrollable lunatic.

 

Another difference is their status in a purely sports context. Tyson isn't even in the top 50 in a list of top boxers ever, whilst Cobb is generally always regarded in the top 5.

[imb]

The mistake I think you're making is when you consider Cobb's equal opportunity violence as unique and proof he's not a violent racist.

 

I would contend that almost every violent racist is first, a violent person. In my experience, those people are often in physical altercations because they're hateful people. So they probably have a long resume of fights and violence, and sometimes only a small percentage is against people of a different ethnicity. However, that doesn't mean they're not violent racists.

 

I think we're talking semantics here. Yes, he was violent. Yes, he was racist. So I suppose that would make him a violent racist on occassion.

 

So sure, Cobb beat down a few whities in his day. Congratulations? But that doesn't mitigate the fact he was racist and that propelled him into several documented (and probably a few undocumented) cases against blacks.

 

Whities?

 

White people.

[OleMissCub]

 

White people.

 

Oh ok. So that's what it meant. I thought he was saying that Cobb beat up on Yankee pitching legends.

[Derwood]

do you think it's fair that the first thing people think about when you mention Mike Tyson is his out-of-the-ring craziness?

 

I get the example you are trying to make, but Cobb was a loose cannon with a horrible and violent disposition on occassion, just a plain old hick douche....Tyson is an uncontrollable lunatic.

 

Another difference is their status in a purely sports context. Tyson isn't even in the top 50 in a list of top boxers ever, whilst Cobb is generally always regarded in the top 5.

 

 

Tyson isn't in the list of top 50 boxers ever? Seriously?

 

BTW, my comparison with George Wallace was only in the context of the end of their careers (suddenly opening up to non whites). Wallace is probably a worse person overall, as he "became" a racist in order to win votes.

[fibro]

do you think it's fair that the first thing people think about when you mention Mike Tyson is his out-of-the-ring craziness?

 

I get the example you are trying to make, but Cobb was a loose cannon with a horrible and violent disposition on occassion, just a plain old hick douche....Tyson is an uncontrollable lunatic.

 

Another difference is their status in a purely sports context. Tyson isn't even in the top 50 in a list of top boxers ever, whilst Cobb is generally always regarded in the top 5.

 

 

Tyson isn't in the list of top 50 boxers ever? Seriously?

 

BTW, my comparison with George Wallace was only in the context of the end of their careers (suddenly opening up to non whites). Wallace is probably a worse person overall, as he "became" a racist in order to win votes.

 

http://shoutfan.com/2007/05/15/the-top-50-boxers-of-all-time/

 

Tyson is number 50 on this list so he seems borderline top 50. I certainly do not know enough about the history of boxing to comment one way or another.

[OleMissCub]

 

Tyson isn't in the list of top 50 boxers ever? Seriously?

 

Not normally. Definitely not as unanimous a top 5 selection as Cobb usually is.

 

BTW, my comparison with George Wallace was only in the context of the end of their careers (suddenly opening up to non whites). Wallace is probably a worse person overall, as he "became" a racist in order to win votes.

 

Well, Wallace's racism effected hundreds of thousands of blacks. Cobb's racism just effected those he personally encountered.

[snoodmonger]

The mistake I think you're making is when you consider Cobb's equal opportunity violence as unique and proof he's not a violent racist.

 

I would contend that almost every violent racist is first, a violent person. In my experience, those people are often in physical altercations because they're hateful people. So they probably have a long resume of fights and violence, and sometimes only a small percentage is against people of a different ethnicity. However, that doesn't mean they're not violent racists.

 

I think we're talking semantics here. Yes, he was violent. Yes, he was racist. So I suppose that would make him a violent racist on occassion.

Actually, it would be better to say he was violently racist. Probably more accurate.

 

So sure, Cobb beat down a few whities in his day. Congratulations? But that doesn't mitigate the fact he was racist and that propelled him into several documented (and probably a few undocumented) cases against blacks.

 

Whities?

 

Yes, whities.

[OleMissCub]

 

Actually, it would be better to say he was violently racist. Probably more accurate.

 

I'm going to disagree with that term only because that implies that his racist views led him toward acts of violence or that his brand of racism was a particularly violent one. Like I said before, the incidents in those cases were caused by racist attitudes to start off with, but his decision to physically attack them was not as a result of his racism, they were a result of his uncontrollable violent temper in certain situations. James Earl Ray or Klan members that lynched blacks or killed civil rights workers were violently racist. Those were actions that weren't committed in a spur of the moment rage.

 

The only time I can recall a story of him planning on hurting someone was after the death of his good friend Ray Chapman at the hands of a Carl Mays fastball. Mays was known as the premier headhunter of his day and didn't show much remorse at the death of Chapman. The first game that the Tigers played the Yankees after Chapman's death, Cobb wrote a note before the game and handed it to the batboy to go give to Mays in the Yankee clubhouse. The note read "If it was within my power, I would have inscribed on Chapman's tombstone these words: Here lies the victim of arrogance, viciousness and greed."

 

In a 1942 interview, Mays described what happened next:

 

"The first time he came to bat I decked him good," Carl recalled.

 

"The dirt really flew when he hit the ground and he came up wild with rage. He had a terrible temper and was always scrapping with somebody. If it wasn't the umpires or the other players he would scrap with his own teammates.

 

"But I made a mistake in [putting] him in that frame of mind. It nearly cost me my baseball career. I had to come in with the next pitch, in order to get even on the count, and he dragged a bunt down the first base line. I ran over, fielded the ball and turned to toss it to first base. But I never completed the play.

 

"Just as I was about to toss an underhand lob I was slammed into from behind and knocked sprawling on the foul line. At the same time I felt one of Cobb's spikes rip into the calf of my left leg while his other tore my pants from the belt line right down to the back of my knee. Cobb had run fight over me.

 

"I lay there stunned for a moment and then rolled over onto the infield grass and sat up. When I got courage enough to look at my leg, it was just a bloody mess. I remember wondering if I would ever run again.

 

"And when I looked up at Cobb, there he was, standing with both feet on top of the first-base bag. His chin was sticking out like a witch's and his eyes were nearly popping out of his head. I never before had seen any person with such a look of wild hatred in his eyes.

 

"What present-day fans don't know about Cobb is that he was like a big cat. If you turned your back to him he would strike--be off and running to the next base. You never could take your eyes off him. He was extremely fast and was running at full speed after having taken only one step.

 

"The mistake I had made was in getting in his way on the baseline. The baseline was his--according to him--and he just ran right over me after knocking me to the ground. I carry the scar of that spiking to this day. It is more than six inches long. The doctor, incidentally, did a wonderful repair job and I only missed a couple of pitching turns."

 

Mays' scar in 1942:

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27876&d=1187807322

[Derwood]

i'm afraid this isn't an argument you're going to win, OMC

[OleMissCub]

i'm afraid this isn't an argument you're going to win, OMC

 

You would know.

[Derwood]

i'm afraid this isn't an argument you're going to win, OMC

 

You would know.

 

i meant that it seems to be OMC vs. Every Member of NSBB Plus the GoogleBot on this one

[OleMissCub]

i'm afraid this isn't an argument you're going to win, OMC

 

You would know.

 

i meant that it seems to be OMC vs. Every Member of NSBB Plus the GoogleBot on this one

 

I think the YahooBot agrees with me....get it? Hardy har.

[Derwood]

i'm afraid this isn't an argument you're going to win, OMC

 

You would know.

 

i meant that it seems to be OMC vs. Every Member of NSBB Plus the GoogleBot on this one

 

I think the YahooBot agrees with me....get it? Hardy har.

 

i'm not saying you should stop pleading your case, just that you're getting ganged up on here

[Roast]

For the record - I agree with OMC. Of course, that probably just strengthens everyone elses disagreement.

[Garwilly]

I am in OMC's corner. Whatever thats worth.

[ConstableRabbit]

I am too.

[snoodmonger]

James Earl Ray or Klan members that lynched blacks or killed civil rights workers were violently racist. Those were actions that weren't committed in a spur of the moment rage.

 

You have really high standards for the term violently racist. I, for one, am comfortable saying a man who tried to choke a black man to death for being too familiar with him is violently racist.

[OleMissCub]

James Earl Ray or Klan members that lynched blacks or killed civil rights workers were violently racist. Those were actions that weren't committed in a spur of the moment rage.

 

You have really high standards for the term violently racist. I, for one, am comfortable saying a man who tried to choke a black man to death for being too familiar with him is violently racist.

 

I'm comfortable saying the guy was just violent in general. We're talking about a guy here who beat up his roommate on a roadtrip when after a game the roommate got to the bathtub before he did.

 

On a related note, I was at a sports store in Denver yesterday and bought an Ernie Banks and Ty Cobb bobblehead.

[Sammy Sofa]

"Ty Cobb" is definitely one of Soundgarden's worst songs, and was a very clear sign that their end was right around the corner.

[swordsman]

James Earl Ray or Klan members that lynched blacks or killed civil rights workers were violently racist. Those were actions that weren't committed in a spur of the moment rage.

 

You have really high standards for the term violently racist. I, for one, am comfortable saying a man who tried to choke a black man to death for being too familiar with him is violently racist.

 

I'm comfortable saying the guy was just violent in general. We're talking about a guy here who beat up his roommate on a roadtrip when after a game the roommate got to the bathtub before he did.

 

On a related note, I was at a sports store in Denver yesterday and bought an Ernie Banks and Ty Cobb bobblehead.

 

*Cut to inside OMC's suitcase in the plane on the way home. The Ty Cobb Bobblehead beats the crap out of the Ernie Banks Bobblehead for being too agreeable.

[OleMissCub]

James Earl Ray or Klan members that lynched blacks or killed civil rights workers were violently racist. Those were actions that weren't committed in a spur of the moment rage.

 

You have really high standards for the term violently racist. I, for one, am comfortable saying a man who tried to choke a black man to death for being too familiar with him is violently racist.

 

I'm comfortable saying the guy was just violent in general. We're talking about a guy here who beat up his roommate on a roadtrip when after a game the roommate got to the bathtub before he did.

 

On a related note, I was at a sports store in Denver yesterday and bought an Ernie Banks and Ty Cobb bobblehead.

 

*Cut to inside OMC's suitcase in the plane on the way home. The Ty Cobb Bobblehead beats the crap out of the Ernie Banks Bobblehead for being too agreeable.

 

LOL, thats pretty funny.

 

....Cobb was actually a fan of Banks'. At the time of his death, his favorite players were mantle, campy, and mays.

[OleMissCub]

 

*Cut to inside OMC's suitcase in the plane on the way home. The Ty Cobb Bobblehead beats the crap out of the Ernie Banks Bobblehead for being too agreeable.

 

Well hell, it's funny you say that because I think Ernie beat up Tyrus. I get home today and open my suitcase and Ty's bobble head had come off!

[imb]

i'm literally lmao

[rocket]

i'm literally lmao

 

so what are you going to do now that you have no ass?