Jason Bay available?

[rawaction]

Would the Pirates consider a package of Murton, Marshall, Marmol, and a minor leaguer for Bay?

 

I like Bay as much as the next guy, but that package seems like too much.

 

Take out Marmol and it works.

 

Not for the Pirates it doesn't.

 

Well, then they get to keep Bay.

[NCCubFan]

Would the Pirates consider a package of Murton, Marshall, Marmol, and a minor leaguer for Bay?

 

I like Bay as much as the next guy, but that package seems like too much.

 

Take out Marmol and it works.

 

Not for the Pirates it doesn't.

But they're our AAAA team, so they have to do what we tell them to do. :lol:

[Smack]

Would the Pirates consider a package of Murton, Marshall, Marmol, and a minor leaguer for Bay?

 

I like Bay as much as the next guy, but that package seems like too much.

 

Take out Marmol and it works.

 

Not for the Pirates it doesn't.

 

Well, then they get to keep Bay.

 

Agreed. No way I give up our best reliever - who happens to be making league minimum.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Murton, Marshall, Theriot after they trade Wilson?

[brinoch]

Murton, Marshall, Theriot after they trade Wilson?

 

They do like our crappy infielders.

[rawaction]

Murton, Marshall, Theriot after they trade Wilson?

 

Fans around here like Jack Wilson. He wasn't hitting when they were trying to trade him, but he's raked since. I think they may keep Jack, but they could be very interested in Theriot.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Would the Pirates consider a package of Murton, Marshall, Marmol, and a minor leaguer for Bay?

 

I like Bay as much as the next guy, but that package seems like too much.

 

Take out Marmol and it works.

 

Not for the Pirates it doesn't.

 

Well, then they get to keep Bay.

 

Agreed. No way I give up our best reliever - who happens to be making league minimum.

 

If Bay returns to his career norms, his value is much, much greater than Marmol or any reliever for that matter.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

If Bay returns to his career norms, his value is much, much greater than Marmol or any reliever for that matter.

 

I'd think the odds are much greater that Bay returns to his career norms than Marmol repeats his numbers this season.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

If Bay returns to his career norms, his value is much, much greater than Marmol or any reliever for that matter.

 

I'd think the odds are much greater that Bay returns to his career norms than Marmol repeats his numbers this season.

 

And even if Marmol improves his numbers, if Bay returns to his career numbers, he's more valuable than Marmol.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Bay can play RF. Not a great OF, but shouldn't be a problem. Pirates have pretty glaring needs. I think they will look for 3B, C, and obviously pitching. Cubs can't really help out at 3B and C, but I could see the Pirates being interested in all the close to the majors pitching that the Cubs have.

 

They could have if they wouldn't have given away Scott Moore for 4 lousy starts from Steve Trachsel. I bet Pittsburgh would have found someone like Clay Rapada of interest, too. These types of trades get a pass from the sportswriters when they happen, but it is examples just like this when they come back to look really bad in hindsight. A trade with a team like Pittsburgh, desperate for QUANTITIES of young players with upside, is exactly where you could get some value for a Scott Moore or Clay Rapada. Instead of giving them away for players that will not be here on November 1st.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Bay can play RF. Not a great OF, but shouldn't be a problem. Pirates have pretty glaring needs. I think they will look for 3B, C, and obviously pitching. Cubs can't really help out at 3B and C, but I could see the Pirates being interested in all the close to the majors pitching that the Cubs have.

 

Why would they need a catcher? Ronny Paulino doesn't work? Also, why wouldn't Sanchez move back to 3B and have them take E-Patt?

 

Ever seen Paulino hit when the Cubs aren't the opponent? Well, neither has the Pirates organization. Also, Freddy Sanchez doesn't hit like a 3B. It only makes sense to keep him there if you have Chase Utley or the like at 2B.

 

I do think the Pirates could have interest in Eric Patterson. They have been looking for a leadoff type hitter for a while. EP can play 2B (moving Sanchez to SS) or CF.

 

I'd offer Patterson, Gallagher and Marshall for Bay and a P prospect.

 

Actually, Omar Minaya has some kind of relationship with Ronny Paulino, I'm not sure of the details, but there are already rumors in NY that the Mets will try to trade for him this winter. LoDuca is a free agent and the consensus is there's no way the Mets want him back. Pittsburgh should try to pry away Humber or Pelfrey from the Mets and offer up Paulino and a prospect to try and get him. If Minaya truly has a chubby for Ronny, Pirates should use that to their advantage if they're smart.

[Backtobanks]

Bay can play RF. Not a great OF, but shouldn't be a problem. Pirates have pretty glaring needs. I think they will look for 3B, C, and obviously pitching. Cubs can't really help out at 3B and C, but I could see the Pirates being interested in all the close to the majors pitching that the Cubs have.

 

They could have if they wouldn't have given away Scott Moore for 4 lousy starts from Steve Trachsel. I bet Pittsburgh would have found someone like Clay Rapada of interest, too. These types of trades get a pass from the sportswriters when they happen, but it is examples just like this when they come back to look really bad in hindsight. A trade with a team like Pittsburgh, desperate for QUANTITIES of young players with upside, is exactly where you could get some value for a Scott Moore or Clay Rapada. Instead of giving them away for players that will not be here on November 1st.

 

While I agree that the Trachsel trade was ridiculous, Scott Moore and Clay Rapada would have to be the "throw-ins" in a trade for Jason Bay. Even if Pittsburgh is desperate for QUANTITIES of young players with upside, Moore and Rapada barely fit that description and would have to be packaged with 2 or 3 "can't miss" young players.

[biittner77]

While I agree that the Trachsel trade was ridiculous, Scott Moore and Clay Rapada would have to be the "throw-ins" in a trade for Jason Bay. Even if Pittsburgh is desperate for QUANTITIES of young players with upside, Moore and Rapada barely fit that description and would have to be packaged with 2 or 3 "can't miss" young players.

 

It depends also on why they are trying to trade the player in question. In the case of Jack Wilson they're trying to cut payroll in which case Moore and Rapada would probably have been pretty close to enough.

[Derwood]

Bay can play RF. Not a great OF, but shouldn't be a problem. Pirates have pretty glaring needs. I think they will look for 3B, C, and obviously pitching. Cubs can't really help out at 3B and C, but I could see the Pirates being interested in all the close to the majors pitching that the Cubs have.

 

what is Neil Walker, chopped liver?

[Backtobanks]

While I agree that the Trachsel trade was ridiculous, Scott Moore and Clay Rapada would have to be the "throw-ins" in a trade for Jason Bay. Even if Pittsburgh is desperate for QUANTITIES of young players with upside, Moore and Rapada barely fit that description and would have to be packaged with 2 or 3 "can't miss" young players.

 

It depends also on why they are trying to trade the player in question. In the case of Jack Wilson they're trying to cut payroll in which case Moore and Rapada would probably have been pretty close to enough.

 

I'm talking about a trade for Bay not Jack Wilson. Also, you would have to make a pretty decent offer because I'm sure there would be other teams looking to acquire Bay.

[Jake]

Wow. Where to start....

 

First of all, all of you ragging on Wilso, look at his numbers once the trade deadline past.

 

As for Bay's, or anyone's availibility, we have a new President & GM in place. Anyone's availability today is speculative. Even by the GM & President. They just haven't been on the job long enough to be in a position to talk about shopping anyone.

 

Having said that - we lost 94 games and finished in last place. No one on a team like that is untouchable.

 

As for Bay's off year - there's a problem with his knees. What it is is being kept quiet. I wonder sometimes, if he was healthy, how much better our year would have been. Too many games early in the season when he left men on base and we lost by one or two runs. Which Jason Bay will show up next year - healthy or bad knees. That'll determine a lot of our season (assuming he's not traded, obviously)

 

I think Freddy Sanches and Matt Capps are as close as one will get to untouchable on our team this off season.

 

So, yes, Bay is probably available. But, hopefully, unlike the past, we're not going to trade him just to reduce salary.

 

Neil Walker is the thirdbaseman of the future as of now. Freddy will be at Second base for at least three more years. I hope.

 

Catcher: Look at Paulino's numbers in '06. Can we find that guy again? As for his defense this year - Ouch. And his effort - double ouch. He still has options. OTOH, Ryan Doumit, who can hit the hell out of the ball, is very injury prone. So, maybe, we'll have to find someone there.

 

As for our Pitching: Snell & Gorzo have established themselves this year. Maholm showed he has potential. Everyone else who started for us firmly planeted themselves into the doubtful column with their performances this year, and that includes Zach Duke.

 

Our relief pitching... well, could have been better. Torres was hurt all year and didn't tell anyone and blew about 10 games early in the year. (or so it seemed)

 

Some decent synopsis of the team in print....

 

http://www.post-gazette.com/pirates/statsgeek.asp

 

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07273/821819-63.stm

[rawaction]

If I'm the Pirates, I'd look to trade Bay to the Angels for Ervin Santana and one of their young catchers. I'd trade a couple prospects (nobody major) for Hank Blalock, who they almost got for Oliver Perez last year. I'd sign an OF who has potential to put up decent power numbers, like Mike Cameron, Milton Bradley, or Jose Guillen, if they aren't too expensive.

[Jake]

Murton, Marshall, Theriot after they trade Wilson?

 

I don't think Wilson is going to get traded. First of all, Istzirius's (sp?) option is not going to be picked up.

 

And, as for the flirting with trading Wilson to Detroit, I'd still like to know what was going on there. Supposedly, the Pirates asked for Monroe on top of everything else offered and the Tigers said 'No'. Then, a couple of weeks later the dfa Monroe. So, why was he a sticking point?

 

The reality is that Wilson, while not an all-star, is still a pretty darn good short stop. He hit .296 this year, and he fields the ball very well, generally has a very good glove, decent range and quick hands.

 

He makes around 7 mill per year. Guys who do that much better are going to get 12-13 mil a year.

[rawaction]

Murton, Marshall, Theriot after they trade Wilson?

 

I don't think Wilson is going to get traded. First of all, Istzirius's (sp?) option is not going to be picked up.

 

And, as for the flirting with trading Wilson to Detroit, I'd still like to know what was going on there. Supposedly, the Pirates asked for Monroe on top of everything else offered and the Tigers said 'No'. Then, a couple of weeks later the dfa Monroe. So, why was he a sticking point?

 

The reality is that Wilson, while not an all-star, is still a pretty darn good short stop. He hit .296 this year, and he fields the ball very well, generally has a very good glove, decent range and quick hands.

 

He makes around 7 mill per year. Guys who do that much better are going to get 12-13 mil a year.

 

Jack Wilson is severely overpaid and not very good. This is his 2nd year above average offensively. At 30 next year, there's a decent chance he reverts back to the low 70s OPS+ player he was for the 2 1/2 years before this July. Three of the last 5 years, his OPS+ has been in the 70s. All those years are right around his career numbers, so 2004 and the last few months of 2007 seem like the anomaly.

 

That being said, if I were the Pirates I would keep him in hopes that he has figured something out if the only other option were to pick up some of his contract to play elsewhere. He does have a .350 OBP this year, and is one of the best defensive SS in the league. That's worth something, though not worth $7M/year and not worth paying him to play elsewhere.

[brinoch]

The question for the Pirates regarding Wilson is really whether or not they can do without him. Unless they can find an SS upgrade -- and I doubt they can -- they might as well stay with him, despite his cost.

 

The 3B question really centers on Neil Walker and whether or not he is ready, and, if not, WHEN he will be ready.

[nilodnayr]

Murton, Marshall, Theriot after they trade Wilson?

 

I don't think Wilson is going to get traded. First of all, Istzirius's (sp?) option is not going to be picked up.

 

And, as for the flirting with trading Wilson to Detroit, I'd still like to know what was going on there. Supposedly, the Pirates asked for Monroe on top of everything else offered and the Tigers said 'No'. Then, a couple of weeks later the dfa Monroe. So, why was he a sticking point?

 

The reality is that Wilson, while not an all-star, is still a pretty darn good short stop. He hit .296 this year, and he fields the ball very well, generally has a very good glove, decent range and quick hands.

 

He makes around 7 mill per year. Guys who do that much better are going to get 12-13 mil a year.

 

Depends if you are getting a 2004 or 2007 Jack Wilson, or if you are getting a 2001, 2002, 2003, 2005, or 2006 Jack Wilson. Oddly enough, the majority of his bad years, hes slightly under eBABIP, and his good years hes right around it, so from an eBABIP perspective its not like he got really lucky in his good years. But with so much underperformance of eBABIP, maybe he just falls underneath it. Theres nothing really significantly different in his peripherals from year to year, quite weird.