Angel Pagan's Mental Errors

[RyCubsFan]

After Pagan had a big Spring last year, I (like many on here) was hoping that he'd suddenly break out and be like "Beltran," who I believe he compared himself to. I like underdogs...heck, isn't that inherent in being a Cubs fan??

 

I'm beginning to think that Pagan is rather clueless on the field, however. He made three mental errors last night:

 

First, he dropped the ball when he was trying to throw home to get Milledge. He was rushing the throw and lost concentration...is my take on it.

 

Second, he once again forgot the number of outs in the inning. This is the second time he has done this in a matter of weeks. This time...after he made the catch...there were 3 outs, yet he stayed on the field, as if it was the 2nd out. While this mistake didn't cost us, a similar type of mistake could in the future.

 

Third, he took his time to throw to 2nd when Castillo was on first and tagged up. He didn't catch the ball ready to throw, and he started slowly throwing it into the infield. He should have been aware that there was a good chance that Castillo would tag, caught the ball in ready position, and come up firing. This mental error probably allowed Castillo to get into scoring position.

 

Maybe it was just a bad night for Pagan, as it was for other players. He did have a nice hit at the plate. However, he likely cost us a run...maybe 2...last night with his mental mistakes.

 

I'm ready for Pie.

[kente777]

I'm sure Lou is well aware of the blunders last night. He will not tolerate that type of play and will bench Pagan if it continues. I, for one, am ready for the change.

[Soul]

It's not just a bad night. He's just not a real good baseball player, and I believe we've reached the ceiling of his potential.

 

I'd be shocked if we got much more out of Pagan.

[fromthestretch]

Third, he took his time to throw to 2nd when Castillo was on first and tagged up. He didn't catch the ball ready to throw, and he started slowly throwing it into the infield. He should have been aware that there was a good chance that Castillo would tag, caught the ball in ready position, and come up firing. This mental error probably allowed Castillo to get into scoring position.

 

Some of the blame goes to the infielders on this one. They needed to let him know that the runner was tagging.

[kente777]

Third, he took his time to throw to 2nd when Castillo was on first and tagged up. He didn't catch the ball ready to throw, and he started slowly throwing it into the infield. He should have been aware that there was a good chance that Castillo would tag, caught the ball in ready position, and come up firing. This mental error probably allowed Castillo to get into scoring position.

 

Some of the blame goes to the infielders on this one. They needed to let him know that the runner was tagging.

 

I absolutely disagree. If there are less than two outs and runners on base, you get the ball in quickly. That is fundamental baseball -- the kind of stuff you learn in Little League. You don't need the infielders to tell you that.

[E.J.]

It's not just a bad night. He's just not a real good baseball player, and I believe we've reached the ceiling of his potential.

 

I'd be shocked if we got much more out of Pagan.

 

Not only is he not a good ballplayer, but he's also a very dumb ballplayer. He's forgotten how many outs there were at least 3 times this season. That's just unacceptable. He's hit a couple of key homeruns, but that's basically all he's been worth this season. You'd think with his speed that he would be above-average defensively, but he's pretty crappy in the field. He should be used as the 25th man on the team at most.

[kente777]

It's not just a bad night. He's just not a real good baseball player, and I believe we've reached the ceiling of his potential.

 

I'd be shocked if we got much more out of Pagan.

 

Not only is he not a good ballplayer, but he's also a very dumb ballplayer. He's forgotten how many outs there were at least 3 times this season. That's just unacceptable. He's hit a couple of key homeruns, but that's basically all he's been worth this season. You'd think with his speed that he would be above-average defensively, but he's pretty crappy in the field. He should be used as the 25th man on the team at most.

 

Lou seems to be pretty smart about when to sit a player. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a change in the next few days.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Third, he took his time to throw to 2nd when Castillo was on first and tagged up. He didn't catch the ball ready to throw, and he started slowly throwing it into the infield. He should have been aware that there was a good chance that Castillo would tag, caught the ball in ready position, and come up firing. This mental error probably allowed Castillo to get into scoring position.

 

Some of the blame goes to the infielders on this one. They needed to let him know that the runner was tagging.

 

The only way that is on the infield is if they're telling him "no tag".

 

Pagan also looked awful tracking Reyes' triple.

[RyCubsFan]

Third, he took his time to throw to 2nd when Castillo was on first and tagged up. He didn't catch the ball ready to throw, and he started slowly throwing it into the infield. He should have been aware that there was a good chance that Castillo would tag, caught the ball in ready position, and come up firing. This mental error probably allowed Castillo to get into scoring position.

 

Some of the blame goes to the infielders on this one. They needed to let him know that the runner was tagging.

 

The only way that is on the infield is if they're telling him "no tag".

 

Pagan also looked awful tracking Reyes' triple.

 

And the replay showed Derek Lee shouting to the outfield. The only reason he knew at all is that he finally heard DLee.

[Banedon]

Third, he took his time to throw to 2nd when Castillo was on first and tagged up. He didn't catch the ball ready to throw, and he started slowly throwing it into the infield. He should have been aware that there was a good chance that Castillo would tag, caught the ball in ready position, and come up firing. This mental error probably allowed Castillo to get into scoring position.

 

Some of the blame goes to the infielders on this one. They needed to let him know that the runner was tagging.

 

The only way that is on the infield is if they're telling him "no tag".

 

Pagan also looked awful tracking Reyes' triple.

 

There's been at least 3 or 4 times that there's been a ball at the wall or at the base of the wall that he could have gotten to but either hasn't or has gotten there and missed it. He can make the routine plays, but if it requires anything more than that, it's an adventure.

 

I certainly never EVER thought of Pagan in the same sentence with Beltran, that's for sure.

[USSoccer]

Pagan is an acceptable 25th man. He shouldn't be starting games.

[fromthestretch]

Third, he took his time to throw to 2nd when Castillo was on first and tagged up. He didn't catch the ball ready to throw, and he started slowly throwing it into the infield. He should have been aware that there was a good chance that Castillo would tag, caught the ball in ready position, and come up firing. This mental error probably allowed Castillo to get into scoring position.

 

Some of the blame goes to the infielders on this one. They needed to let him know that the runner was tagging.

 

I absolutely disagree. If there are less than two outs and runners on base, you get the ball in quickly. That is fundamental baseball -- the kind of stuff you learn in Little League. You don't need the infielders to tell you that.

 

I said "some of the blame," not all. I never said Pagan wasn't without blame. But as an infielder, if you see the runner hustling back to tag up, you sure as hell should be yelling to the outfield. That's also fundamental baseball. Of course, Pagan should be aware of who was on first, and he should have been ready to throw the ball in quickly.

 

If it's true that Lee was yelling, then the blame does fall squarely on Pagan's shoulders.

[kente777]

Third, he took his time to throw to 2nd when Castillo was on first and tagged up. He didn't catch the ball ready to throw, and he started slowly throwing it into the infield. He should have been aware that there was a good chance that Castillo would tag, caught the ball in ready position, and come up firing. This mental error probably allowed Castillo to get into scoring position.

 

Some of the blame goes to the infielders on this one. They needed to let him know that the runner was tagging.

 

I absolutely disagree. If there are less than two outs and runners on base, you get the ball in quickly. That is fundamental baseball -- the kind of stuff you learn in Little League. You don't need the infielders to tell you that.

 

I said "some of the blame," not all. I never said Pagan wasn't without blame. But as an infielder, if you see the runner hustling back to tag up, you sure as hell should be yelling to the outfield. That's also fundamental baseball. Of course, Pagan should be aware of who was on first, and he should have been ready to throw the ball in quickly.

 

If it's true that Lee was yelling, then the blame does fall squarely on Pagan's shoulders.

 

I respect your opinion, but simply disagree. The infielders have no play at all on this. Even if Lee doesn't shout to Pagan, less than 2 outs, man on base....you get the ball in and you get it in quickly. Again, fundamentals. You know who's on, and you know how many outs there are. Castillo was on and he's fast.....Pagan should have known this. Instead of throwing the ball in quickly to second, regardless of the infielders yelling or not, he decided to lob the ball in. This is a huge mental error and I'm sure he got his butt chewed by Lou.

 

Now if Pagan had gotten the ball in quickly and the infielders were standing around picking their nose, then yeah, I blame them.

[NewUserName]

Since we are on mental blunders of players. Lost in the Soriano injury is the fact that it would have been a close play at third if he didnt get hurt. Again a Cub was risking making the 3rd out at Third. A blunder Pagan has made at least twice this year.

[CubColtPacer]

Since we are on mental blunders of players. Lost in the Soriano injury is the fact that it would have been a close play at third if he didnt get hurt. Again a Cub was risking making the 3rd out at Third. A blunder Pagan has made at least twice this year.

 

I thought it was going to be somewhat close the first time I saw it (and was wondering why Soriano did it) but when I saw the replay I could see that if Soriano runs at full speed all the way and slides into the bag, the throw definitely would have been late.

[RyCubsFan]

Did I mention that Pie had an assist at home plate last night for Iowa??

[RyCubsFan]

Since we are on mental blunders of players. Lost in the Soriano injury is the fact that it would have been a close play at third if he didnt get hurt. Again a Cub was risking making the 3rd out at Third. A blunder Pagan has made at least twice this year.

 

I thought it was going to be somewhat close the first time I saw it (and was wondering why Soriano did it) but when I saw the replay I could see that if Soriano runs at full speed all the way and slides into the bag, the throw definitely would have been late.

 

Soriano would have easily made it had he not pulled up with the injury.

[kente777]

Did I mention that Pie had an assist at home plate last night for Iowa??

 

I think it's about time he get the call. I was really unsure because he has been struggling with Major League pitching, but seeing our pathetic center fielder, I am ready.

 

And hey, while we're at it, let's move Kendall to back up with Soto as starter. He certainly can't do much worse.

[fromthestretch]

Third, he took his time to throw to 2nd when Castillo was on first and tagged up. He didn't catch the ball ready to throw, and he started slowly throwing it into the infield. He should have been aware that there was a good chance that Castillo would tag, caught the ball in ready position, and come up firing. This mental error probably allowed Castillo to get into scoring position.

 

Some of the blame goes to the infielders on this one. They needed to let him know that the runner was tagging.

 

I absolutely disagree. If there are less than two outs and runners on base, you get the ball in quickly. That is fundamental baseball -- the kind of stuff you learn in Little League. You don't need the infielders to tell you that.

 

I said "some of the blame," not all. I never said Pagan wasn't without blame. But as an infielder, if you see the runner hustling back to tag up, you sure as hell should be yelling to the outfield. That's also fundamental baseball. Of course, Pagan should be aware of who was on first, and he should have been ready to throw the ball in quickly.

 

If it's true that Lee was yelling, then the blame does fall squarely on Pagan's shoulders.

 

I respect your opinion, but simply disagree. The infielders have no play at all on this. Even if Lee doesn't shout to Pagan, less than 2 outs, man on base....you get the ball in and you get it in quickly. Again, fundamentals. You know who's on, and you know how many outs there are. Castillo was on and he's fast.....Pagan should have known this. Instead of throwing the ball in quickly to second, regardless of the infielders yelling or not, he decided to lob the ball in. This is a huge mental error and I'm sure he got his butt chewed by Lou.

 

Now if Pagan had gotten the ball in quickly and the infielders were standing around picking their nose, then yeah, I blame them.

 

You basically just repeated what I said (see bolded part).

 

To say the infielders have no play at all on this is wrong. With runners on base, infielders need to let the outfielders know what's going on with the runners, so the outfielder can concentrate on fielding the ball instead of watching two things at once. I'm not denying the fact that he should have been ready to throw as soon as he caught that ball. But maybe, just maybe, if he hears someone yelling about the runner tagging up, he does come up throwing.

 

Also, I wouldn't say he lobbed the ball in. He took his time but fired it in once he realized the runner tagged up. Unfortunately, he realized it too late.

 

I'm not trying to defend Pagan here, because he sure as hell screwed up enough times last night.

[kente777]

Third, he took his time to throw to 2nd when Castillo was on first and tagged up. He didn't catch the ball ready to throw, and he started slowly throwing it into the infield. He should have been aware that there was a good chance that Castillo would tag, caught the ball in ready position, and come up firing. This mental error probably allowed Castillo to get into scoring position.

 

Some of the blame goes to the infielders on this one. They needed to let him know that the runner was tagging.

 

I absolutely disagree. If there are less than two outs and runners on base, you get the ball in quickly. That is fundamental baseball -- the kind of stuff you learn in Little League. You don't need the infielders to tell you that.

 

I said "some of the blame," not all. I never said Pagan wasn't without blame. But as an infielder, if you see the runner hustling back to tag up, you sure as hell should be yelling to the outfield. That's also fundamental baseball. Of course, Pagan should be aware of who was on first, and he should have been ready to throw the ball in quickly.

 

If it's true that Lee was yelling, then the blame does fall squarely on Pagan's shoulders.

 

I respect your opinion, but simply disagree. The infielders have no play at all on this. Even if Lee doesn't shout to Pagan, less than 2 outs, man on base....you get the ball in and you get it in quickly. Again, fundamentals. You know who's on, and you know how many outs there are. Castillo was on and he's fast.....Pagan should have known this. Instead of throwing the ball in quickly to second, regardless of the infielders yelling or not, he decided to lob the ball in. This is a huge mental error and I'm sure he got his butt chewed by Lou.

 

Now if Pagan had gotten the ball in quickly and the infielders were standing around picking their nose, then yeah, I blame them.

 

You basically just repeated what I said (see bolded part).

 

To say the infielders have no play at all on this is wrong. With runners on base, infielders need to let the outfielders know what's going on with the runners, so the outfielder can concentrate on fielding the ball instead of watching two things at once. I'm not denying the fact that he should have been ready to throw as soon as he caught that ball. But maybe, just maybe, if he hears someone yelling about the runner tagging up, he does come up throwing.

 

Also, I wouldn't say he lobbed the ball in. He took his time but fired it in once he realized the runner tagged up. Unfortunately, he realized it too late.

 

I'm not trying to defend Pagan here, because he sure as hell screwed up enough times last night.

 

His intent was to lob it in.

 

And you put the responsibility (albeit part of it) of knowing who's on base to the infielders. I put it squarely on the shoulders of Pagan. In the case last night, it absolutely doesn't matter what the infielders do. Pagan screwed up, not the infielders.

 

So let's say they don't yell anything to Pagan....does that matter? Does it? Who caught the ball? Who's supposed to throw it in? Does a center fielder need the infielders to tell him there are less than two outs with a fast runner on base? If he does, then we have a serious problem....something that maybe the Minors can fix.

 

The only way I blame the infield is if when he threw it in, they weren't ready.

 

I like the way he hustles when he hits a weak ground ball, but his hustle in the field sucks.

 

P.S. This is one of the things that really, really irk me about Major League players today. They are overpaid and much more lazy than in the olden days. I haven't had a chance to listen to Pat and Ron a lot because I live in Florida, but I'm sure Ron would absolutely agree with -- and maybe he's even voiced that.

Edited August 6, 2007 by kente777

[Derwood]

Did I mention that Pie had an assist at home plate last night for Iowa??

 

did I mention that he'd get 4 AB's a week for the Cubs?

[CubColtPacer]

Did I mention that Pie had an assist at home plate last night for Iowa??

 

did I mention that he'd get 4 AB's a week for the Cubs?

 

At this point, Pie only has 3-4 weeks in his minor league season left anyway. I'd like him to be called up even if he does only get a few at-bats a week. One, he can help the team right now just being a defensive replacement, pinch runner, etc. (and it won't hurt him too much because there isn't much minor league season left). Second, if he can survive on the squad through the end of the month, he can be placed on the postseason roster, where he could be very valuable in that role.

[anabiono]

exactly, i mean if it is a choice between pagan and pie

 

gee...i don't know that is really tough...

 

no it isn't...ask pie if he would rather be a defensive replacement up here or stay in the minors...i don't know the kid, but i bet a thousand dollars he responds with, "My bags are already packed!"

Edited August 6, 2007 by anabiono

[fromthestretch]

His intent was to lob it in.

 

And you put the responsibility (albeit part of it) of knowing who's on base to the infielders. I put it squarely on the shoulders of Pagan. In the case last night, it absolutely doesn't matter what the infielders do. Pagan screwed up, not the infielders.

 

So let's say they don't yell anything to Pagan....does that matter? Does it? Who caught the ball? Who's supposed to throw it in? Does a center fielder need the infielders to tell him there are less than two outs with a fast runner on base? If he does, then we have a serious problem....something that maybe the Minors can fix.

 

The only way I blame the infield is if when he threw it in, they weren't ready.

 

I like the way he hustles when he hits a weak ground ball, but his hustle in the field sucks.

 

You're focusing on one thing I said and ignoring everything else. I've said several times that Pagan should have been aware of the situation. Regardless of what Pagan should have done (and I'm not arguing what he should have done), I would feel like I didn't do my job as an infielder if I hadn't been yelling to him about the runner tagging up.

 

In my opinion, there should almost always be someone yelling on just about every play. Runner on first, ground ball to short, someone should be yelling "TWO." Runner on first, double to the gap, outfielder hits the cutoff, someone needs to be yelling to let the relay man know what to do with the ball. Players have mental lapses once in awhile, even at the highest level of play, so having people yelling what to do doesn't hurt.

 

Say you're the runner on third with the bases loaded. The thirdbase coach is most likely going to remind you there are "x" outs and to go on contact. As the runner, you should know this already, but it never hurts to have someone reminding you of the situation. Last night, Pagan should have known there was a fast runner on first, and he should have been prepared to throw quickly. I just think that an infielder has a responsibility to let him know that guy is tagging.

 

Obviously, you disagree. So be it.

[kente777]

but it never hurts to have someone reminding you of the situation. Last night, Pagan should have known there was a fast runner on first, and he should have been prepared to throw quickly. I just think that an infielder has a responsibility to let him know that guy is tagging.

 

Obviously, you disagree. So be it.

 

I agree that it never hurts to be reminded by the infielders. That's what a team does. But we're not talking about reminders....we're talking about blame. All I'm saying is that the infielders did nothing wrong last night...nothing.

 

100 percent of blame goes to Pagan.

 

One thing we can agree on, Pagan screwed up and probably doesn't need to be our center fielder.