Bonds Hits 755 in 2nd Inning

[Derwood]

the announcers in this game are basically trying and convicting Bonds on the air. so very un-ESPN like

[Mizzou]

Can we get a mod to add an asterisk in the thread title?

[Guest]

It's a shame he couldn't do it in LA - I'd have loved to see the reaction at Dodger Stadium. Ahh well, they hate him nearly as much in San Diego. Amusing that the Padres "Barry-proofed" Petco Park and he ties the record there.

 

And yes, Barry > Babe Ruth.

What do you mean?

 

the huge alley in right center. though right down the line it isn't as bad as the rest of the park with that crazy section of seats that juts out from the foul pole.

 

And the folks who designed the ballpark themselves said that they "Barry-proofed" the park.

[cubbieblue12]

Can we get a mod to add an asterisk in the thread title?

 

 

Seconded.

[NewUserName]

best player ever.

 

 

Zup?

http://img27.picoodle.com/img/img27/9/8/4/f_ruthm_dae597a.jpg

 

1921, age 26:

 

.378 Batting Average, 59 Home Runs, 171 RBI, 177 Runs, .846 Slg. %, .512 OBP, 457 Total Bases, 44 Doubles, 16 Triples, 17 Stolen Bases, 145 BB, 1.359 OPS

 

oh ya, I have a career ERA of 2.28 and WHIP of 1.16 in 148 games started.

 

Stick Barry back in 1921 and, barring a hate-crime, he would put up numbers that would have had him burned at the stake for witchcraft.

 

Back in 1921 he wouldn't have had the cream and the clear to assist his body recovery time, his lounge chair and plasma TV in the clubhouse or his body armor to protect him from inside pitches. Not to mention that the rules of the game back then were much more favorable to pitchers (lower mound, doctoring of baseballs allowed, etc). What Ruth did as a comparison to his peers is mindboggling, much more dominant than even Bonds has been to other current players.

 

 

ruth also used a 50 some ounce bat. That is unthinkable to me.

[Guest]

best player ever.

 

 

Zup?

http://img27.picoodle.com/img/img27/9/8/4/f_ruthm_dae597a.jpg

 

1921, age 26:

 

.378 Batting Average, 59 Home Runs, 171 RBI, 177 Runs, .846 Slg. %, .512 OBP, 457 Total Bases, 44 Doubles, 16 Triples, 17 Stolen Bases, 145 BB, 1.359 OPS

 

oh ya, I have a career ERA of 2.28 and WHIP of 1.16 in 148 games started.

 

Stick Barry back in 1921 and, barring a hate-crime, he would put up numbers that would have had him burned at the stake for witchcraft.

 

Back in 1921 he wouldn't have had the cream and the clear to assist his body recovery time, his lounge chair and plasma TV in the clubhouse or his body armor to protect him from inside pitches. Not to mention that the rules of the game back then were much more favorable to pitchers (lower mound, doctoring of baseballs allowed, etc). What Ruth did as a comparison to his peers is mindboggling, much more dominant than even Bonds has been to other current players.

 

 

ruth also used a 50 some ounce bat. That is unthinkable to me.

Scrub pitchers didn't throw in the 90's back then.

[Guest]

And a good chunk of the population wasn't allowed to play back then.

[Guest]

And a good chunk of the population wasn't allowed to play back then.

That's not even the biggest difference in who could play the game. Consider what life was like back then and there were very large segments of the population that simply didn't have the ability to participate in sports. Today, pretty much anyone that has the athletic ability has the opportunity to play the game.

[erik316wttn]

best player ever.

 

No.

 

I agree with OMC. The best player in baseball history is far and away Babe Ruth.

 

He "lost" 6 years of batting to being a pitcher. Had he been a hitter his whole career, Aaron would never have caught him. Ruth would be at or close to 800.

 

Had he stayed a pitcher, he most likely would have won 300+ games and would be in the Hall of Fame either way.

 

Babe Ruth was dominant at his peak at both hitting AND pitching. And he'd have made the Hall of Fame being either. No other player in history can say that. Not Bonds, not Mays, not Ted Williams, not even Cobb.

 

Babe Ruth is the best baseball player who ever lived. There is no other peer.

[OleMissCub]

Scrub pitchers didn't throw in the 90's back then.

 

There's no way to prove it, but I disagree with the characterization or assumption that pitchers didn't throw as hard.

 

If good high school pitchers across the country (at least where I come from) are able to throw mid 80's and some of the excellent ones can throw 90+ without the help of pitching expertise and great conditioning, then I don't think it's unreasonable to think that a grown man back then couldn't do the same.

 

They obviously threw hard enough to break bones and even kill.

[Guest]

Scrub pitchers didn't throw in the 90's back then.

 

There's no way to prove it, but I disagree with the characterization or assumption that pitchers didn't throw as hard.

 

If good high school pitchers across the country (at least where I come from) are able to throw mid 80's and some of the excellent ones can throw 90+ without the help of pitching expertise and great conditioning, then I don't think it's unreasonable to think that a grown man back then couldn't do the same.

 

They obviously threw hard enough to break bones and even kill.

Disagree all you like.

 

But you're wrong. :D

[erik316wttn]

And a good chunk of the population wasn't allowed to play back then.

That's not even the biggest difference in who could play the game. Consider what life was like back then and there were very large segments of the population that simply didn't have the ability to participate in sports. Today, pretty much anyone that has the athletic ability has the opportunity to play the game.

 

Stadiums were much larger back then, and the ball was like a rock for a time.

 

Ruth outhomered entire teams by himself. Has Barroid ever done that?

[OleMissCub]

And a good chunk of the population wasn't allowed to play back then.

That's not even the biggest difference in who could play the game. Consider what life was like back then and there were very large segments of the population that simply didn't have the ability to participate in sports. Today, pretty much anyone that has the athletic ability has the opportunity to play the game.

 

Again, I have to disagree. Ballplayers came from every walk of life, just like today. Ruth came from what was tantamount to an orphanage in a large city. Cobb came from the backwoods Georgia. Walter Johnson came from a corn farm in Kansas. Honus Wagner came from an immigrant coal mining family from Pittsburgh.

[OleMissCub]

Scrub pitchers didn't throw in the 90's back then.

 

There's no way to prove it, but I disagree with the characterization or assumption that pitchers didn't throw as hard.

 

If good high school pitchers across the country (at least where I come from) are able to throw mid 80's and some of the excellent ones can throw 90+ without the help of pitching expertise and great conditioning, then I don't think it's unreasonable to think that a grown man back then couldn't do the same.

 

They obviously threw hard enough to break bones and even kill.

Disagree all you like.

 

But you're wrong. :D

 

Why? Has the human arm evolved that much that 17 year olds can do stuff today that grown men in peak physical condition couldn't do 80 years ago?

[Guest]

Scrub pitchers didn't throw in the 90's back then.

 

There's no way to prove it, but I disagree with the characterization or assumption that pitchers didn't throw as hard.

 

If good high school pitchers across the country (at least where I come from) are able to throw mid 80's and some of the excellent ones can throw 90+ without the help of pitching expertise and great conditioning, then I don't think it's unreasonable to think that a grown man back then couldn't do the same.

 

They obviously threw hard enough to break bones and even kill.

Disagree all you like.

 

But you're wrong. :D

 

Why? Has the human arm evolved that much that 17 year olds can do stuff today that grown men in peak physical condition couldn't do 80 years ago?

No, the talent pyramid has grown that much.

[Irrelevant Dude]

the announcers in this game are basically trying and convicting Bonds on the air. so very un-ESPN like

I thought that was unusual too, but it was refreshing to hear some logical comments for a change. I'm sure we'll be back to the Barry Bonds love fest on Baseball Tonight though.

[Guest]

And a good chunk of the population wasn't allowed to play back then.

That's not even the biggest difference in who could play the game. Consider what life was like back then and there were very large segments of the population that simply didn't have the ability to participate in sports. Today, pretty much anyone that has the athletic ability has the opportunity to play the game.

 

Stadiums were much larger back then, and the ball was like a rock for a time.

 

Ruth outhomered entire teams by himself. Has Barroid ever done that?

There's no question that Ruth changed the game. And you're underselling Ruth -- excluding his own team he out-homered the entire AL that year.

 

But it didn't take long for other players to start slugging after Ruth paved the way.

[Guest]

And a good chunk of the population wasn't allowed to play back then.

That's not even the biggest difference in who could play the game. Consider what life was like back then and there were very large segments of the population that simply didn't have the ability to participate in sports. Today, pretty much anyone that has the athletic ability has the opportunity to play the game.

 

Again, I have to disagree. Ballplayers came from every walk of life, just like today. Ruth came from what was tantamount to an orphanage in a large city. Cobb came from the backwoods Georgia. Walter Johnson came from a corn farm in Kansas. Honus Wagner came from an immigrant coal mining family from Pittsburgh.

Quoting exceptions doesn't change the fact that life was much different back then and far, far fewer teenagers had the freedom to play baseball than today.

[OleMissCub]

No, the talent pyramid has grown that much.

 

What does that have to do with a human being able to throw a baseball at high velocity?

 

If my teammates in high school could throw 85, why couldn't a grown man 80 years ago?

[Guest]

No, the talent pyramid has grown that much.

 

What does that have to do with a human being able to throw a baseball at high velocity?

 

If my teammates in high school could throw 85, why couldn't a grown man 80 years ago?

1) 85

2) The talent pyramid is EVERYTHING when comparing the skills of players in that era compared to today.

 

On another point: How many of your high school teammates knew how to throw a slider? How many pitchers that faced Ruth knew how? Saying that kids today don't have any special training or knowledge compared to people nearly 100 years ago sounds good, but really isn't true. Not to mention nutrition, training, etc.

[OleMissCub]

There's no question that Ruth changed the game. And you're underselling Ruth -- excluding his own team he out-homered the entire AL that year.

 

But it didn't take long for other players to start slugging after Ruth paved the way.

 

The tighter wound ball that was introduced in 1920 was the main factor for the increase in home runs I think.

[Brian]

Can you imagine if Griffey could have been healthier and if he somehow would have approached 755 at the same time as Bonds. That would have been Sosa/Mac x 100000. And this race would have had a natural "good guy" vs. "bad guy". The only difference is after it was attained there would have been no natural finish line, it would have been who could extend their career the longest.

 

Definitely would have been fun.

[Ender]

If you really don't think pitchers throw harder today you are living in a dream land, there is no question about it. They also throw a lot more breaking stuff, fastball/changeup was the name of the game back in the day, there was nowhere near the amount of nasty sliders etc.

 

Your average hitter in the 50's/60's would be a scrub nowadays assuming you didn't get them the same access to film, weight lifting etc as players get now. the game is very very different.

[Guest]

There's no question that Ruth changed the game. And you're underselling Ruth -- excluding his own team he out-homered the entire AL that year.

 

But it didn't take long for other players to start slugging after Ruth paved the way.

 

The tighter wound ball that was introduced in 1920 was the main factor for the increase in home runs I think.

No doubt that was the prime factor. But it was really not until the very late 1920's that there was any other hitter that consistently topped 25 home runs. I think it is fair to say that Ruth's power took a while to replicate even with the tighter-wound ball.

 

Below is how hitters caught up to the Babe (top 5 in hr in the AL per year posted)

 

1920:

 

Ruth-NYY 54

Sisler-SLB 19

Walker-PHA 17

Felsch-CHW 14

Jackson-CHW 12

Smith-CLE 12

 

1921:

 

Ruth-NYY 59

Meusel-NYY 24

Williams-SLB 24

Walker-PHA 23

Heilmann-DET 19

 

1922:

 

Williams-SLB 39

Walker-PHA 37

Ruth-NYY 35

Heilmann-DET 21

Miller-PHA 21

 

1923:

 

Ruth-NYY 41

Williams-SLB 29

Heilmann-DET 18

Hauser-PHA 17

Speaker-CLE 17

 

1924:

 

Ruth-NYY 46

Hauser-PHA 27

Jacobson-SLB 19

Williams-SLB 18

Boone-BOS 13

 

1925:

 

Meusel-NYY 33

Ruth-NYY 25

Williams-SLB 25

Simmons-PHA 24

Gehrig-NYY 20

 

1926:

 

Ruth-NYY 47

Simmons-PHA 19

Lazzeri-NYY 18

Goslin-WSH 17

Williams-SLB 17

 

1927:

 

Ruth-NYY 60

Gehrig-NYY 47

Lazzeri-NYY 18

Williams-SLB 17

Simmons-PHA 15

 

1928:

 

Ruth-NYY 54

Gehrig-NYY 27

Goslin-WSH 17

Hauser-PHA 16

Simmons-PHA 15

 

1929:

 

Ruth-NYY 46

Gehrig-NYY 35

Simmons-PHA 34

Foxx-PHA 33

Alexander-DET 25

 

1930:

 

Ruth-NYY 49

Gehrig-NYY 41

Foxx-PHA 37

Goslin-TOT 37

Simmons-PHA 36

 

1931:

 

Gehrig-NYY 46

Ruth-NYY 46

Averill-CLE 32

Foxx-PHA 30

Goslin-SLB 24

[OleMissCub]

 

On another point: How many of your high school teammates knew how to throw a slider? How many pitchers that faced Ruth knew how? Saying that kids today don't have any special training or knowledge compared to people nearly 100 years ago sounds good, but really isn't true. Not to mention nutrition, training, etc.

 

Perhaps my highschool team was the exception, given that we won the 5A state champ. 2 years in a row, but we had guys who had a full arsenal of pitches.

 

Besides, pitchers back then threw all kinds of junk up there and were even allowed to doctor the ball with grease, oil, whatever.

 

Look, all I'm saying is that they didn't lob the ball up there. They had to have thrown at least as hard as good high school pitchers today, if not harder. People didn't just walk up to the stadium and say "hey, I wanna be a pitcher." They had minor leagues back then and you had to work your way up. Thus, if you made it to the bigs you had some talent.