What if... Pie/Marshall/??

[StMarksCubs]

Does anyone agree that this team would be better with the following moves:

 

** Call up Pie, send down Cedeno -- Pie is tearing it up in AAA, and we don't really need any more middle infield depth. I think the '07 Cubs are at their best when he is in the lineup, and he's got to adjust to major league pitching at some point.

 

** Send down Ohman, put Marshall in the pen -- I think 3 lefty starters is a bit much, especially when Marshall can't show any consistency. Why not slot him in the pen, where he could be our ONE reliable lefty reliever?

 

** Call up.....? -- Well, here's where I'm a bit lost... Is there anyone right now at AA/AAA that is ready for a bid at the rotation? Clearly, Guzman isn't it...

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Ohman can't be sent down without being exposed to waivers, at which point he becomes a FA but the Cubs would still be on the hook for his contract.

 

While Ohman has his faults, he's too valuable to pay to play elsewhere.

[Keener98]

Does anyone agree that this team would be better with the following moves:

 

** Call up Pie, send down Cedeno -- Pie is tearing it up in AAA, and we don't really need any more middle infield depth. I think the '07 Cubs are at their best when he is in the lineup, and he's got to adjust to major league pitching at some point.

 

** Send down Ohman, put Marshall in the pen -- I think 3 lefty starters is a bit much, especially when Marshall can't show any consistency. Why not slot him in the pen, where he could be our ONE reliable lefty reliever?

 

** Call up.....? -- Well, here's where I'm a bit lost... Is there anyone right now at AA/AAA that is ready for a bid at the rotation? Clearly, Guzman isn't it...

 

 

Why do people keep saying Marshall is inconsistent? Why do people keep trying to remove him from the rotation?

 

Marshalls earned runs in his starts this year:7, 1, 1, 2, 2, 6, 0, 4, 2, 1,1, 2 ,2

 

So would somebody, please explain to me what is inconsistent about that? Because the only thing that looks inconsistent to me, are his 3 outings when he gave up more than 2 runs.

[d_money]

While I don't agree with the move for Pie (he and Cedeno are both impatient at the plate) - moving Hill to the pen rather than Marshall would be the way to go. I'm not sold on Hill. We should've dealt for pitching at the deadline.

[Keener98]

While I don't agree with the move for Pie (he and Cedeno are both impatient at the plate) - moving Hill to the pen rather than Marshall would be the way to go. I'm not sold on Hill. We should've dealt for pitching at the deadline.

 

Hill should stay as well. Besides his last outing, his previous 3 starts were all good starts and he still has respectable numbers. IF anybody was to be removed from the rotation it should be Jason Marquis. Marquis is basically living off his first 2 months of the season, and the 2 months since then have been horrible. However the only way I see anybody getting moved out of the rotation is if somebody gets hurt.

 

As for you disagreeing about Pie because of his impatience, Jones is not any more patient than Felix is. However Felix gives you top notch D in CF, and the likelihood of improving, while we know what we have with Jones, and its nothing spectacular at the plate. Jones D has been horrible of late, and if hes not going to play good D, then there really is no reason for him to be here.

 

Fun Fact Jones has as many HRs as Felix does in the Majors this year in 150 more AB's. Felix only has 13 fewer RBI than Jones, and 12 less runs scored. Why is Jones the better option?

[CubColtPacer]

While I don't agree with the move for Pie (he and Cedeno are both impatient at the plate) - moving Hill to the pen rather than Marshall would be the way to go. I'm not sold on Hill. We should've dealt for pitching at the deadline.

 

Hill should stay as well. Besides his last outing, his previous 3 starts were all good starts and he still has respectable numbers. IF anybody was to be removed from the rotation it should be Jason Marquis. Marquis is basically living off his first 2 months of the season, and the 2 months since then have been horrible. However the only way I see anybody getting moved out of the rotation is if somebody gets hurt.

 

As for you disagreeing about Pie because of his impatience, Jones is not any more patient than Felix is. However Felix gives you top notch D in CF, and the likelihood of improving, while we know what we have with Jones, and its nothing spectacular at the plate. Jones D has been horrible of late, and if hes not going to play good D, then there really is no reason for him to be here.

 

Fun Fact Jones has as many HRs as Felix does in the Majors this year in 150 more AB's. Felix only has 13 fewer RBI than Jones, and 12 less runs scored. Why is Jones the better option?

 

Pie in his first two stints simply couldn't get on base. A .272 OBP is not something that this team needs right now. His K/BB percentage was also not good at all.

 

Jones meanwhile has given the team around .370 OBP since July 1st. His walks are up and his K's are down during that stretch.

 

It's a close call-do you want the defense and the possibility of improving from Pie, or the OBP that Jones has been giving? I'd say to stick with Jones for now-if they were going to let Pie play through his struggles, the time to do that was earlier in the season. At this point, by the time he starts to figure out major league pitching the season will be over. Jones is a better bet to produce over the next month or two, and the Cubs need every single bit of offense that they can get.

[Mephistopheles]

** Call up Pie, send down Cedeno -- Pie is tearing it up in AAA, and we don't really need any more middle infield depth. I think the '07 Cubs are at their best when he is in the lineup, and he's got to adjust to major league pitching at some point.

 

.360/.424/.543 Cedeno in AAA

.361/.403/.565 Pie in AAA

 

Cedeno was playing better than Pie in AAA and just got called up. Calling Pie up would make sense, but not for Cedeno. They're better off dumping Fontenot or Pagan if that happened. Those two are worthless.

[Mephistopheles]

While I don't agree with the move for Pie (he and Cedeno are both impatient at the plate) - moving Hill to the pen rather than Marshall would be the way to go. I'm not sold on Hill. We should've dealt for pitching at the deadline.

 

 

did you just suggest moving hill to the pen? thats just dumb. flat out [expletive].

[Little Slide Rooter]

I wouldnt be shocked if Gallagher was added to the rotation. You saw how good Hill and Marshall were in the first half. Maybe Gallagher could be the same for the second half.

[NCCubFan]

Cedeno was playing better than Pie in AAA and just got called up. Calling Pie up would make sense, but not for Cedeno. They're better off dumping Fontenot or Pagan if that happened. Those two are worthless.

I'd send Pagan down. If they call Pie up they'd have a glut of outfielders. Even better would be to trade Jones.

[cbbryan]

I wouldnt be shocked if Gallagher was added to the rotation. You saw how good Hill and Marshall were in the first half. Maybe Gallagher could be the same for the second half.

 

The only guys in the minors other then GAllagher are possibly Piggy and Holliman. Or O'Malley to a lesser extent.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I'd send Pagan down. If they call Pie up they'd have a glut of outfielders. Even better would be to trade Jones.

 

Pie is a prototypical leadoff guy, and Soriano doesnt want to part with that spot. Too bad though. While Jones' bat is finally heating up, Pie is a far superior outfielder. He'll be back for the September call ups, and not a moment before. Maybe E-Pat to.

[SouthSideRyan]

Pie is not a prototypical leadoff guy, Hill is the 3rd best starter on the team, and Angel Pagan isn't worthless.(.275/.320/.457, PECOTA of 278/.342/.426, nothing crazy on BABIP, decent fielder, decent baserunner)

[anabiono]

while we are on this topic...i need some help clearing up a question...

 

does the 40 man roster go into the playoffs or just the 25 man roster...

 

just because i want pie and soto to be given a chance, especially soto...

 

i really do not understand the reasoning behind possibly having a catching duo of kendall/hill going into the playoffs...

[SouthSideRyan]

while we are on this topic...i need some help clearing up a question...

 

does the 40 man roster go into the playoffs or just the 25 man roster...

 

just because i want pie and soto to be given a chance, especially soto...

 

i really do not understand the reasoning behind possibly having a catching duo of kendall/hill going into the playoffs...

 

Swiped from SOSH

 

3. Post-season roster eligibility

 

The pool of players eligible for the postseason is made up of the 25 players active on August 31, plus any players on the 15-day or 60-day DL on that date. Any of those players can be replaced by another player (who must have been in the organization on August 31) if the eligible player is injured at the time of the postseason series. Therefore, if a team has no players on the DL on August 31, it has very little flexibility in choosing its postseason roster. Also, there was a rule change with the new CBA, whereby now teams can replace an injured player during the middle of a series.

 

Explaining it further, in the organization does not require that a player be on the 40 man, just in the system. Regarding us, we have an abundance of pitchers on the DL, so any pitcher would be free to make a potential playoff roster. There is not a lot of flexibility with the position players, as our only real hope is Blanco being done for the year, which would allow Soto to make the team. The best thing Buck Coats could do for the organization would be to go down with a season ending injury allowing the team to argue a replacement at virtually any position.

[anabiono]

while we are on this topic...i need some help clearing up a question...

 

does the 40 man roster go into the playoffs or just the 25 man roster...

 

just because i want pie and soto to be given a chance, especially soto...

 

i really do not understand the reasoning behind possibly having a catching duo of kendall/hill going into the playoffs...

 

Swiped from SOSH

 

3. Post-season roster eligibility

 

The pool of players eligible for the postseason is made up of the 25 players active on August 31, plus any players on the 15-day or 60-day DL on that date. Any of those players can be replaced by another player (who must have been in the organization on August 31) if the eligible player is injured at the time of the postseason series. Therefore, if a team has no players on the DL on August 31, it has very little flexibility in choosing its postseason roster. Also, there was a rule change with the new CBA, whereby now teams can replace an injured player during the middle of a series.

 

Explaining it further, in the organization does not require that a player be on the 40 man, just in the system. Regarding us, we have an abundance of pitchers on the DL, so any pitcher would be free to make a potential playoff roster. There is not a lot of flexibility with the position players, as our only real hope is Blanco being done for the year, which would allow Soto to make the team. The best thing Buck Coats could do for the organization would be to go down with a season ending injury allowing the team to argue a replacement at virtually any position.

 

well, that is sick and twisted logic...but....i like it!

 

so, more likely than not, pie and soto will not be going to the playoffs if we happen to ride the magic cloud there?

[Guest]

I wouldnt be shocked if Gallagher was added to the rotation. You saw how good Hill and Marshall were in the first half. Maybe Gallagher could be the same for the second half.

 

The only guys in the minors other then GAllagher are possibly Piggy and Holliman. Or O'Malley to a lesser extent.

 

Mateo. And unlike Piggy, Holliman and O'Malley, Mateo is on the 40-man.

 

Of course, the difference between Rich Hill/Sean Marshall in the first half of this season and Sean Gallagher now is that Hill and Marshall were much more advanced and had more experience in the big leagues.

[C.C.]

** Send down Ohman, put Marshall in the pen -- I think 3 lefty starters is a bit much, especially when Marshall can't show any consistency. Why not slot him in the pen, where he could be our ONE reliable lefty reliever?

 

 

 

Why would you put your more reliable starters in the 'pen? Makes no sense.

[Banedon]

ARRRGH!! The whole "Marshall is inconsistent" movement is driving me absolutely insane. He's not inconsistent!!! He's had 2-3 bad outings all season long! And one of those, this last one, was because he had a freaking scratched cornea! I keep using exclamation points because so many people don't want to seem to pay attention.

 

With the exception of the last time through the rotation, starting pitching HAS NOT be a problem with the Cubs.

[Athletics36]

Starting pitching hasn't been a problem for the Cubs? Duh if your starters can't go longer than the 5th inning it creates a serious problem on your bullpen.......

[CubColtPacer]

Starting pitching hasn't been a problem for the Cubs? Duh if your starters can't go longer than the 5th inning it creates a serious problem on your bullpen.......

 

The Cubs starters are 5th out of 16 in starters IP/G in the NL (and with a long outing today they could move into 2nd in that department). That hasn't been a big problem with the Cubs overall getting deep into ballgames. It just happened that Marshall's short outing, Hill's short outing, and Z being taken out earlier then usual happened on the same time through the order.

[Keener98]

ARRRGH!! The whole "Marshall is inconsistent" movement is driving me absolutely insane. He's not inconsistent!!! He's had 2-3 bad outings all season long! And one of those, this last one, was because he had a freaking scratched cornea! I keep using exclamation points because so many people don't want to seem to pay attention.

 

With the exception of the last time through the rotation, starting pitching HAS NOT be a problem with the Cubs.

 

I know what you are saying Banedon. No matter how many times I post his earned runs allowed broken down by games, people still keep saying it, but these same people are completely ignoring Marquis inconsistency. Its rather "inconsistent" wouldnt you say?

[don_kessinger_was_good]

I wish posters would get off Marquis' case. He's been a perfectly acceptable #5 starter, in fact, pretty good for that slot. Check out the league leaders in WHIP. Get back to me once you compile a list of other #5 starters in baseball with a better WHIP than Jason Marquis.

 

Yes, he's inconsistent, and when he's bad, he's BAD. OK. I'll take a 50/50 success rate out of my 5 starter all day long. In the playoffs, you move him to long relief, allowing the Cubs to put an extra bat on the bench and keep one of the extra relievers (likely Eyre) off the post-season roster. No problems.

 

I'm more concerned about the consistent sucktitude of Will Ohman and the occasional implosions of Bobby Howry than I am the work of any of our starters this year. Ohman and Howry combined have literally blown ten games for the Cubs this year. TEN GAMES!!! If even HALF of those games are back, the Cubs would find themselves a gaudy 17 games over 500 right now with the best record in the NL. Think about that for a moment.

 

Jason Marquis is not the biggest problem on the Cubs pitching staff.

[shnsajax]

I wish posters would get off Marquis' case. He's been a perfectly acceptable #5 starter, in fact, pretty good for that slot. Check out the league leaders in WHIP. Get back to me once you compile a list of other #5 starters in baseball with a better WHIP than Jason Marquis.

 

Yes, he's inconsistent, and when he's bad, he's BAD. OK. I'll take a 50/50 success rate out of my 5 starter all day long. In the playoffs, you move him to long relief, allowing the Cubs to put an extra bat on the bench and keep one of the extra relievers (likely Eyre) off the post-season roster. No problems.

 

I'm more concerned about the consistent sucktitude of Will Ohman and the occasional implosions of Bobby Howry than I am the work of any of our starters this year. Ohman and Howry combined have literally blown ten games for the Cubs this year. TEN GAMES!!! If even HALF of those games are back, the Cubs would find themselves a gaudy 17 games over 500 right now with the best record in the NL. Think about that for a moment.

 

Jason Marquis is not the biggest problem on the Cubs pitching staff.

 

I agree that he is not the biggest problem. But people were on Marquis when he signed and predicting he would suck, and everytime he sucks it becomes an "I told you so" type atmosphere.

[Illini Iceman]

I wish posters would get off Marquis' case. He's been a perfectly acceptable #5 starter, in fact, pretty good for that slot. Check out the league leaders in WHIP. Get back to me once you compile a list of other #5 starters in baseball with a better WHIP than Jason Marquis.

 

Yes, he's inconsistent, and when he's bad, he's BAD. OK. I'll take a 50/50 success rate out of my 5 starter all day long. In the playoffs, you move him to long relief, allowing the Cubs to put an extra bat on the bench and keep one of the extra relievers (likely Eyre) off the post-season roster. No problems.

 

I'm more concerned about the consistent sucktitude of Will Ohman and the occasional implosions of Bobby Howry than I am the work of any of our starters this year. Ohman and Howry combined have literally blown ten games for the Cubs this year. TEN GAMES!!! If even HALF of those games are back, the Cubs would find themselves a gaudy 17 games over 500 right now with the best record in the NL. Think about that for a moment.

 

Jason Marquis is not the biggest problem on the Cubs pitching staff.

 

Ohman has appeared in 46 games and Howry in 52 games this year. If one were to assume your ten game estimate that they have blown for the Cubs is correct then that means that they have failed in about 10% of their appearances. How many out of 100 appearances would you assume that the average reliever would blow?

BTW - the ESPN stat site shows Ohman has no blown saves this year and Howry has 4 so maybe you are overstating their impact a bit. It means that there were probably games they sucked in that you blame the loss on them when there is a fair chance the team would have lost anyway.