Will Carroll - Pie on the trading block

[RynoRules]

To deal Pie would be a mistake even if we got a big name player. I long for the day that the Cubs hold onto a player like Pie let him work out his flaws and become a great player for us not someone else.

 

you say that as if the Cubs have had hitters go elsewhere and blossom into great hitters since...oh, let's say anytime in the past 20-25 years.

 

Joe Carter wasn't to shabby now was he, I believe he has a couple rings on his finger! I wasn't talking about just hitters I was talking about any player, pitcher, batter and ballgirl for that matter.

 

Joe Carter was pretty terrible.

 

No he wasn't: http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/cartejo01.shtml

[CubColtPacer]

To deal Pie would be a mistake even if we got a big name player. I long for the day that the Cubs hold onto a player like Pie let him work out his flaws and become a great player for us not someone else.

 

you say that as if the Cubs have had hitters go elsewhere and blossom into great hitters since...oh, let's say anytime in the past 20-25 years.

 

Joe Carter wasn't to shabby now was he, I believe he has a couple rings on his finger! I wasn't talking about just hitters I was talking about any player, pitcher, batter and ballgirl for that matter.

 

Well, if you're talking about anybody, they held on to Zambrano through his struggles and let him blossom into a great pitcher just a few years ago now. Rich Hill was also kept and has turned into a good pitcher.

[Backtobanks]

Carroll, I don't think this means much. Cubs are a money contender, so you here there names with big values. Griffey? Dunn? Johan Santana? Torii Hunter? Dontrelle? Teix? I imagine Carroll has heard a few big names with talk about whether the Cubs might not be a fit. And then, whenever Cubs name comes up, inevitably Pie's name has to enter the conversation. Nobody's going to trade a big name (other than perhaps old Griffey) to Cubs without Pie being involved.

 

That wouldn't mean the Cubs are "shopping" Pie. Just that his name tends to come up. Simply because you can't discuss Cubs trading for a big gun without considering Pie's inclusion.

 

Take Pie out of the discussion, and write the Cubs off in terms of any big name pickups that are less than 38 years old.

 

 

Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner. Everyone knows that Hendry is busy shopping for "something" and the first person everyone wants in return is Pie. I doubt very much that Hendry is "shopping" Pie, especially for the like of Laird or some over-the-hill two month rental.

[cubfan1955]

To deal Pie would be a mistake even if we got a big name player. I long for the day that the Cubs hold onto a player like Pie let him work out his flaws and become a great player for us not someone else.

 

you say that as if the Cubs have had hitters go elsewhere and blossom into great hitters since...oh, let's say anytime in the past 20-25 years.

 

Joe Carter wasn't to shabby now was he, I believe he has a couple rings on his finger! I wasn't talking about just hitters I was talking about any player, pitcher, batter and ballgirl for that matter.

 

Joe Carter was pretty terrible.

 

No he wasn't: http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/cartejo01.shtml

He was a horrible announcer though! :lol:

[Tracer Bullet]

To deal Pie would be a mistake even if we got a big name player. I long for the day that the Cubs hold onto a player like Pie let him work out his flaws and become a great player for us not someone else.

 

you say that as if the Cubs have had hitters go elsewhere and blossom into great hitters since...oh, let's say anytime in the past 20-25 years.

 

Joe Carter wasn't to shabby now was he, I believe he has a couple rings on his finger! I wasn't talking about just hitters I was talking about any player, pitcher, batter and ballgirl for that matter.

 

Joe Carter was pretty terrible.

 

Sarcasm?

[don_kessinger_was_good]

To deal Pie would be a mistake even if we got a big name player. I long for the day that the Cubs hold onto a player like Pie let him work out his flaws and become a great player for us not someone else.

 

What position players have the Cubs given up on that became great for someone else? Maybe I am forgetting someone that is obvious, but the last young position player I can remember being traded by the Cubs who then went on to have a good career is Joe Carter. That trade worked out fine for us.

 

Rafael Palmeiro says "hiya."

[cubfan1955]

The Cubs should not consider trading Pie for some such brittle player as (Griffey) or one dimensional player (Dunn). Maybe Miguel Cabrera but any mention of Pie should knock Jim off of his feet. Pie has a chance, though not a sure thing, to be a very exciting player for years to come.

[TarzanJoeWallis]

To deal Pie would be a mistake even if we got a big name player. I long for the day that the Cubs hold onto a player like Pie let him work out his flaws and become a great player for us not someone else.

 

What position players have the Cubs given up on that became great for someone else? Maybe I am forgetting someone that is obvious, but the last young position player I can remember being traded by the Cubs who then went on to have a good career is Joe Carter. That trade worked out fine for us.

 

Rafael Palmeiro says "hiya."

 

Oh yes. I thought there was someone I might be forgetting. He certainly qualifies. That trade didn't turn out as well as the Carter trade, but it did help lead us to the NLCS.

[inari]

To deal Pie would be a mistake even if we got a big name player. I long for the day that the Cubs hold onto a player like Pie let him work out his flaws and become a great player for us not someone else.

 

you say that as if the Cubs have had hitters go elsewhere and blossom into great hitters since...oh, let's say anytime in the past 20-25 years.

 

Joe Carter wasn't to shabby now was he, I believe he has a couple rings on his finger! I wasn't talking about just hitters I was talking about any player, pitcher, batter and ballgirl for that matter.

 

Joe Carter was pretty terrible.

 

Sarcasm?

 

Terrible might be too much, but he certainly wasn't as good as people make him out to be. He was mediocre for just about all of his career.

[davearm]

To deal Pie would be a mistake even if we got a big name player. I long for the day that the Cubs hold onto a player like Pie let him work out his flaws and become a great player for us not someone else.

 

you say that as if the Cubs have had hitters go elsewhere and blossom into great hitters since...oh, let's say anytime in the past 20-25 years.

 

Joe Carter wasn't to shabby now was he, I believe he has a couple rings on his finger! I wasn't talking about just hitters I was talking about any player, pitcher, batter and ballgirl for that matter.

 

Joe Carter was pretty terrible.

 

Sarcasm?

Joe Carter is a guy that the stathead acronym crowd thinks is vastly overrated. His OPS+, WARP3, RATE etc. measures are all uninspiring.

 

Carter played in an era where hitting 30 HRs and driving in 100 runs was enough to be considered a great player. Those standards are changing (or have changed), and Carter doesn't measure up nearly as well on the newer sabermetric scales.

[jjgman21]

Carter and Palmiero don't even apply to this discussion. neither were guys that needed time to work through their struggles. both were very good players that were traded away for other than performance related reasons, Carter to get the Cy Young award winning pitcher that got us to the playoffs, and Palmiero to get him away from the star's wife.

 

and even so, how many Hee Sops and Bobby Hills and David Keltons and Brian Dopiraks do we have to have before you let go of what happened 20-25 years ago, or at the very least to stop implying it is some sort of pattern that is always repeating itself.

[seanimal]

To deal Pie would be a mistake even if we got a big name player. I long for the day that the Cubs hold onto a player like Pie let him work out his flaws and become a great player for us not someone else.

 

you say that as if the Cubs have had hitters go elsewhere and blossom into great hitters since...oh, let's say anytime in the past 20-25 years.

 

Joe Carter wasn't to shabby now was he, I believe he has a couple rings on his finger! I wasn't talking about just hitters I was talking about any player, pitcher, batter and ballgirl for that matter.

 

Joe Carter was pretty terrible.

 

No he wasn't: http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/cartejo01.shtml

 

I hadn't realized that having a baseball reference page made a baseball player not terrible.

[muntjack]

I'm aware that other teams could offer better packages, but at this late hour, I'd have to think that an offer of

 

Marshall

Pie

Murton

Marmol

 

For

 

M. Cabrera

 

would have to be seriously considered by the marlins. You've got a young guy who's hit near .300 with discipline, a top shelf CF prospect, A young SP who has had success at this level, and one of the best bullpen arms in baseball. All of them are cheap.

[seanimal]

I'm aware that other teams could offer better packages, but at this late hour, I'd have to think that an offer of

 

Marshall

Pie

Murton

Marmol

 

For

 

M. Cabrera

 

would have to be seriously considered by the marlins. You've got a young guy who's hit near .300 with discipline, a top shelf CF prospect, A young SP who has had success at this level, and one of the best bullpen arms in baseball. All of them are cheap.

 

I'd rather give up Hill than Marshall at this point.

 

Does Cabrera still have one more year of arbitration or is he a FA after this season?

[nilodnayr]

To deal Pie would be a mistake even if we got a big name player. I long for the day that the Cubs hold onto a player like Pie let him work out his flaws and become a great player for us not someone else.

 

you say that as if the Cubs have had hitters go elsewhere and blossom into great hitters since...oh, let's say anytime in the past 20-25 years.

 

Joe Carter wasn't to shabby now was he, I believe he has a couple rings on his finger! I wasn't talking about just hitters I was talking about any player, pitcher, batter and ballgirl for that matter.

 

Joe Carter was pretty terrible.

 

No he wasn't: http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/cartejo01.shtml

 

I hadn't realized that having a baseball reference page made a baseball player not terrible.

 

He wasn't terrible, but he wasn't that good. People remember one swing of his and think he was a God.

[RynoRules]

To deal Pie would be a mistake even if we got a big name player. I long for the day that the Cubs hold onto a player like Pie let him work out his flaws and become a great player for us not someone else.

 

you say that as if the Cubs have had hitters go elsewhere and blossom into great hitters since...oh, let's say anytime in the past 20-25 years.

 

Joe Carter wasn't to shabby now was he, I believe he has a couple rings on his finger! I wasn't talking about just hitters I was talking about any player, pitcher, batter and ballgirl for that matter.

 

Joe Carter was pretty terrible.

 

Sarcasm?

 

Terrible might be too much, but he certainly wasn't as good as people make him out to be. He was mediocre for just about all of his career.

 

Yeah, "terrible" would be a bit much. This is terrible:

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/perezne01.shtml

 

 

And which people would you be refering to? I didn't see anyone in here alleging that he was anything but a tradeable commodity who would have been productive had he remained a Cub.

Edited July 30, 2007 by RynoRules

[Iceblink]

I think the Cabrera talk is unrealistic...unless they think he's eating his way out of anywhere but 1B, and that'd be a red flag.

 

I'm more afraid they'd try to package Pie and others for Willis. That would suck.

[RynoRules]

To deal Pie would be a mistake even if we got a big name player. I long for the day that the Cubs hold onto a player like Pie let him work out his flaws and become a great player for us not someone else.

 

you say that as if the Cubs have had hitters go elsewhere and blossom into great hitters since...oh, let's say anytime in the past 20-25 years.

 

Joe Carter wasn't to shabby now was he, I believe he has a couple rings on his finger! I wasn't talking about just hitters I was talking about any player, pitcher, batter and ballgirl for that matter.

 

Joe Carter was pretty terrible.

 

No he wasn't: http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/cartejo01.shtml

 

I hadn't realized that having a baseball reference page made a baseball player not terrible.

 

And I hadn't realized that you are blind and cannot see the link. Makes me wonder how you read the rest of the posts here. Temporary vision?

[seanimal]

To deal Pie would be a mistake even if we got a big name player. I long for the day that the Cubs hold onto a player like Pie let him work out his flaws and become a great player for us not someone else.

 

you say that as if the Cubs have had hitters go elsewhere and blossom into great hitters since...oh, let's say anytime in the past 20-25 years.

 

Joe Carter wasn't to shabby now was he, I believe he has a couple rings on his finger! I wasn't talking about just hitters I was talking about any player, pitcher, batter and ballgirl for that matter.

 

Joe Carter was pretty terrible.

 

No he wasn't: http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/cartejo01.shtml

 

I hadn't realized that having a baseball reference page made a baseball player not terrible.

 

And I hadn't realized that you are blind and cannot see the link. Makes me wonder how you read the rest of the posts here. Temporary vision?

 

I was commenting on the fact that you simply offered up a link without any possible discussion as to why Joe Carter would or wouldn't be "terrible". If I was 'blind' and couldn't 'see the link', how would I know that it was a baseball reference page? Work on your insults guy.

[muntjack]

I think the Cabrera talk is unrealistic...unless they think he's eating his way out of anywhere but 1B, and that'd be a red flag.

 

I'm more afraid they'd try to package Pie and others for Willis. That would suck.

 

Perhaps you're right, but that's a pretty good deal for both teams, imo. Cabrera is going to end up with half of the Marlins payroll before long, and to get 3 good, young, cheap MLB players and Felix Pie is a pretty good haul.

[jjgman21]

To deal Pie would be a mistake even if we got a big name player. I long for the day that the Cubs hold onto a player like Pie let him work out his flaws and become a great player for us not someone else.

 

you say that as if the Cubs have had hitters go elsewhere and blossom into great hitters since...oh, let's say anytime in the past 20-25 years.

 

Joe Carter wasn't to shabby now was he, I believe he has a couple rings on his finger! I wasn't talking about just hitters I was talking about any player, pitcher, batter and ballgirl for that matter.

 

Joe Carter was pretty terrible.

 

No he wasn't: http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/cartejo01.shtml

 

I hadn't realized that having a baseball reference page made a baseball player not terrible.

 

And I hadn't realized that you are blind and cannot see the link. Makes me wonder how you read the rest of the posts here. Temporary vision?

 

he was a pretty productive player for a number of years, but considering he was a corner OF/1B/DH in an era where position still had some meaning, his numbers weren't spectacular. certainly not a star caliber player that you should have woe for for two decades because he got away.

 

after he hung on for way to long, his career 104+ as a corner OF/1B/DH makes him terrible.

[RynoRules]

To deal Pie would be a mistake even if we got a big name player. I long for the day that the Cubs hold onto a player like Pie let him work out his flaws and become a great player for us not someone else.

 

you say that as if the Cubs have had hitters go elsewhere and blossom into great hitters since...oh, let's say anytime in the past 20-25 years.

 

Joe Carter wasn't to shabby now was he, I believe he has a couple rings on his finger! I wasn't talking about just hitters I was talking about any player, pitcher, batter and ballgirl for that matter.

 

Joe Carter was pretty terrible.

 

No he wasn't: http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/cartejo01.shtml

 

I hadn't realized that having a baseball reference page made a baseball player not terrible.

 

And I hadn't realized that you are blind and cannot see the link. Makes me wonder how you read the rest of the posts here. Temporary vision?

 

I was commenting on the fact that you simply offered up a link without any possible discussion as to why Joe Carter would or wouldn't be "terrible". If I was 'blind' and couldn't 'see the link', how would I know that it was a baseball reference page? Work on your insults guy.

 

I wasn't being literal, I was simply commenting on the fact that that his stats speak for themselves. Apparently you are not able to understand them. Or perhaps you do not understand or know the definition of "terrible". Shall I post something for you on that also?

[illiniguy]

Clicking on the neifi link makes me very happy. That guy has made over $18million dollars in his career. God Bless America.

[seanimal]

To deal Pie would be a mistake even if we got a big name player. I long for the day that the Cubs hold onto a player like Pie let him work out his flaws and become a great player for us not someone else.

 

you say that as if the Cubs have had hitters go elsewhere and blossom into great hitters since...oh, let's say anytime in the past 20-25 years.

 

Joe Carter wasn't to shabby now was he, I believe he has a couple rings on his finger! I wasn't talking about just hitters I was talking about any player, pitcher, batter and ballgirl for that matter.

 

Joe Carter was pretty terrible.

 

No he wasn't: http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/cartejo01.shtml

 

I hadn't realized that having a baseball reference page made a baseball player not terrible.

 

And I hadn't realized that you are blind and cannot see the link. Makes me wonder how you read the rest of the posts here. Temporary vision?

 

I was commenting on the fact that you simply offered up a link without any possible discussion as to why Joe Carter would or wouldn't be "terrible". If I was 'blind' and couldn't 'see the link', how would I know that it was a baseball reference page? Work on your insults guy.

 

I wasn't being literal, I was simply commenting on the fact that that his stats speak for themselves. Apparently you are not able to understand them. Or perhaps you do not understand or know the definition of "terrible". Shall I post something for you on that also?

 

Well then, please explain to me how a career .306 OBP isn't terrible. Aside from his inordinately high RBI total (poor measure of a hitter's worth) and decent amount of HR's, what exactly was Joe Carter good at?

 

Someone who 'lets the stats speak for themselves' probably has no idea what they're talking about.

[Banedon]

Come on guys. Arguing over who's more blind is pretty silly.