Ideas about Murton

Tracer Bullet · July 30, 2007

as I said--if Murton is good, he will show it and get more time. Piniella has been very open to giving players that produce more time. Lou gave him a chance earlier in the season and he will get his chance down the stretch if he produces.

So if he gets a hit in his PH appearance, he's "earned" a chance to start the next game. If he goes 2/3 with a double and an RBI - maybe he gets another start or two. If he goes 0/4 with 2 Ks - he sucks and it's back to the farm. Doesn't seem like a logical way to run a team.

Not that I think that's really what Lou's doing, but that seems to be what you're suggesting. Murton struggled early, his past performance was ignored and he was banished to AAA. He performed very well there, so he was recalled and put in a PH role, even though the starter isn't performing. Lou's excuses for not starting him this weekend are crap. Seems to me he's either the subject of a lot of trade discussion or Lou doesn't like him much.

Peoriaman · July 30, 2007

as I said--if Murton is good, he will show it and get more time. Piniella has been very open to giving players that produce more time. Lou gave him a chance earlier in the season and he will get his chance down the stretch if he produces.

So if he gets a hit in his PH appearance, he's "earned" a chance to start the next game. If he goes 2/3 with a double and an RBI - maybe he gets another start or two. If he goes 0/4 with 2 Ks - he sucks and it's back to the farm. Doesn't seem like a logical way to run a team.

Not that I think that's really what Lou's doing, but that seems to be what you're suggesting. Murton struggled early, his past performance was ignored and he was banished to AAA. He performed very well there, so he was recalled and put in a PH role, even though the starter isn't performing. Lou's excuses for not starting him this weekend are crap. Seems to me he's either the subject of a lot of trade discussion or Lou doesn't like him much.

Patience. He will get opportunities and if Floyd is really as fragile as you say, he will get opportunities quickly.

Success isn't a straight line for many--if he can really do it, he will get his chance, and soon. In fact, I think he will probably get at least one start this week.

This is the plight of all subs--they need to perform as a sub to get a chance to play more. If he does, he will.

jaxxradio · July 30, 2007

I was told by somebody in the organization that Lou hasn't forgotten the two flyballs that Matt dropped when the team was struggling earlier in the season.

Seriously, Lou needs to get over his problems with Murton and let the kid play or trade him and a prospect to Baltimore for Jay Payton.

Tracer Bullet · July 30, 2007

as I said--if Murton is good, he will show it and get more time. Piniella has been very open to giving players that produce more time. Lou gave him a chance earlier in the season and he will get his chance down the stretch if he produces.

So if he gets a hit in his PH appearance, he's "earned" a chance to start the next game. If he goes 2/3 with a double and an RBI - maybe he gets another start or two. If he goes 0/4 with 2 Ks - he sucks and it's back to the farm. Doesn't seem like a logical way to run a team.

Not that I think that's really what Lou's doing, but that seems to be what you're suggesting. Murton struggled early, his past performance was ignored and he was banished to AAA. He performed very well there, so he was recalled and put in a PH role, even though the starter isn't performing. Lou's excuses for not starting him this weekend are crap. Seems to me he's either the subject of a lot of trade discussion or Lou doesn't like him much.

Patience. He will get opportunities and if Floyd is really as fragile as you say, he will get opportunities quickly.

Success isn't a straight line for many--if he can really do it, he will get his chance, and soon. In fact, I think he will probably get at least one start this week.

This is the plight of all subs--they need to perform as a sub to get a chance to play more. If he does, he will.

First - I didn't say Floyd was fragile. I said he wasn't performing very well.

Second - he really can do it. In fact, he did it last year. He outperformed Floyd in 2006. His 2006 numbers are better than Floyd's current numbers. His performance in AAA this year strongly suggests that he'll outperform Floyd now if given a full time job. 1 start a week is no way to determine if a guy is playing well.

He shouldn't be a sub - he should be starting. His slow start to this season shouldn't have done him in. But it did - so he went to AAA and showed that he still has it. It's earned him a couple PH chances and maybe a start against a LHP (unless Lou comes up with another excuse). When the alternative is what Floyd has given us, there's no reason not to start Murton everyday.

RegulusBlue · July 30, 2007

I've seen this play before.

Murton is getting benched despite being the best option in RF regardless of the dominant arm of the pitcher on the mound. Lou sent him down for struggling early in what at best was a lame attempt to get him 30% of the starts.

Don't forget he was labelled the starting LF, started ONE consecutive games, and sat for 2 days after that. I believe, IIRC, that he started 2 times during the opening seven or eight games. He's never been given a fair shake by Lou, and that's the truth.

Spot starts, pinch hits, and being lifted from games halfway through have devastated his season so far. To argue that somehow he'll rise to the top through PH'ing is ludicrous. I'd say OPSing well over .900 as he did in AAA before this is rising to the top.

Sadly, Lou will give him one start and pinch hit him for two weeks before banishing him again to Iowa. Our holes at C, RF, and CF WILL cost us the playoffs. Book it. We have in house answers to both, but Lou is too damn dumb to figure it out. Just call him Dusty Piniella, although Dusty gave Murton more of a shot than Lou is, despite Murton having a solid history in the MLB now.

Pathetic.

katway · July 30, 2007

Murton's fielding and Floyd's decent play = less playing time for Matt. The fact is that Soriano is set in left and Murton really can't field another outfield position. He simply looks lost in right field. It's a sad state of affairs when Cliff Floyd is a better fielder, but for all of Floyds faults as a fielder, he's not as bad as Morton. It seems that Floyd has given the team hitting production similar to Murton's last year (as well as some quality clutch hitting) and is the better fielder between the two. All things being equal in a penant race, I can understand Lou sticking with Floyd -- same production, slightly better fielder, veteran, clutch hitting.

thats not true

Right field...

Floyd -- Zone rating .875, Fielding pct 1.000

Murton -- Zone rating .826, Fielding pct .875

Floyd is not a great fielder by any measure, but Murton has looked awful in right. I hope he does improve and worked on it at AAA.

katway · July 30, 2007

Murton's fielding and Floyd's decent play = less playing time for Matt. The fact is that Soriano is set in left and Murton really can't field another outfield position. He simply looks lost in right field. It's a sad state of affairs when Cliff Floyd is a better fielder, but for all of Floyds faults as a fielder, he's not as bad as Morton. It seems that Floyd has given the team hitting production similar to Murton's last year (as well as some quality clutch hitting) and is the better fielder between the two. All things being equal in a penant race, I can understand Lou sticking with Floyd -- same production, slightly better fielder, veteran, clutch hitting.

Neither of those statements is true. Floyd's OPS is 55 points lower than Murton's last year (both his OBP and SLG are worse, it's not just one of the 2). I don't get the better OF comment at all. Floyd's range is horrendous. And by all accounts, Murton went down and worked on his fielding in RF and has improved.

Given that Murton was destroying the ball in AAA for a couple months, it makes no sense to keep running Floyd out there (or DeRosa who should be at 2B every game).

The stats are "similar" to Murton's last year and far better this year. Murton wouldn't be in this position if he played better early on.

In the long run Murton is the better player, but he wasn't able to adjust quickly to right field. But, after seeing Murton look lost out in right, it's easy to see why Lou went with Floyd and stuck with him (production "similar" to Murton's last year) as the team continues to play well.

CubColtPacer · July 30, 2007

I've seen this play before.

Murton is getting benched despite being the best option in RF regardless of the dominant arm of the pitcher on the mound. Lou sent him down for struggling early in what at best was a lame attempt to get him 30% of the starts.

Don't forget he was labelled the starting LF, started ONE consecutive games, and sat for 2 days after that. I believe, IIRC, that he started 2 times during the opening seven or eight games. He's never been given a fair shake by Lou, and that's the truth.

Spot starts, pinch hits, and being lifted from games halfway through have devastated his season so far. To argue that somehow he'll rise to the top through PH'ing is ludicrous. I'd say OPSing well over .900 as he did in AAA before this is rising to the top.

Sadly, Lou will give him one start and pinch hit him for two weeks before banishing him again to Iowa. Our holes at C, RF, and CF WILL cost us the playoffs. Book it. We have in house answers to both, but Lou is too damn dumb to figure it out. Just call him Dusty Piniella, although Dusty gave Murton more of a shot than Lou is, despite Murton having a solid history in the MLB now.

Pathetic.

Just little nit-picks:

Murton didn't sit for 2 days after his Opening Day start, but only 1 day.

Murton started 4 out of the first 6 games, not 2 out of the first 7 or 8.

Murton still did play more than Floyd did over the first couple months of the year.

Murton has had stretches where he has performed well in a platoon situation. July 2005 and July 2006, and early September 2005 and to a lesser extent August 2006.

I hope management gives Murton his opportunity, and I hope he takes advantage of it when it happens (because I'm not sure how long it will last if he doesn't).

Derwood · July 30, 2007

as long as we're quoting stats, here's two part time OF's for the Cubs this year:

a) 121 AB, .248/.326/.331/.657, 1 HR, 8 RBI

b) 134 AB, .284/.329/.470/.799, 4 HR, 21 RBI

If you were Lou, which would you choose?

Skyballer · July 30, 2007

as long as we're quoting stats, here's two part time OF's for the Cubs this year:

a) 121 AB, .248/.326/.331/.657, 1 HR, 8 RBI

b) 134 AB, .284/.329/.470/.799, 4 HR, 21 RBI

If you were Lou, which would you choose?

very funny, Floyd should play but not every day,he can't physically handle it and by the way Murton had it figured out at AAA, both offensively and defensively.

Tracer Bullet · July 30, 2007

Murton's fielding and Floyd's decent play = less playing time for Matt. The fact is that Soriano is set in left and Murton really can't field another outfield position. He simply looks lost in right field. It's a sad state of affairs when Cliff Floyd is a better fielder, but for all of Floyds faults as a fielder, he's not as bad as Morton. It seems that Floyd has given the team hitting production similar to Murton's last year (as well as some quality clutch hitting) and is the better fielder between the two. All things being equal in a penant race, I can understand Lou sticking with Floyd -- same production, slightly better fielder, veteran, clutch hitting.

Neither of those statements is true. Floyd's OPS is 55 points lower than Murton's last year (both his OBP and SLG are worse, it's not just one of the 2). I don't get the better OF comment at all. Floyd's range is horrendous. And by all accounts, Murton went down and worked on his fielding in RF and has improved.

Given that Murton was destroying the ball in AAA for a couple months, it makes no sense to keep running Floyd out there (or DeRosa who should be at 2B every game).

The stats are "similar" to Murton's last year and far better this year. Murton wouldn't be in this position if he played better early on.

In the long run Murton is the better player, but he wasn't able to adjust quickly to right field. But, after seeing Murton look lost out in right, it's easy to see why Lou went with Floyd and stuck with him (production "similar" to Murton's last year) as the team continues to play well.

55 points of OPS (.754 v. 809) is quite a difference, but I guess we just disagree on that.

Murton went 1/4 on opening day. Got the next game off, went 1/3 with a walk the next day. Got another day off and went 2/4 the next day. He actually started the next game (the first time this year he started 2 days in a row!), got 2 ABs and got replaced. Got 1 AB in 4 separate games over the next week. Got 2 consecutive starts (2/4 w/ 1 BB in the first game - and 2 RBI; then 0/5) on April 16/17 and didn't start on consecutive days for the rest of April. But when he did (4 more games) he went 2/4, 2/4, 1/3 (1 BB), 0/4. In fact, he started the year 4/11 with a walk and 3 R (idea of a #2 hitter) - that earned him a week off.

He was a terrible PH - 0/7 w/ 1 walk, but in his April starts, he was good: .297, with 3 BBs and a couple doubles in 10 games (4 of which he got pulled from at some point). Was he hitting for a ton of power? No, Floyd's not exactly Ruthian this year. 10 starts in April counts as a fair shot?

And just so we're clear - his .608 OPS in April was not good. But in May, he responded with a .295/.377/.426 line (.803 OPS). He walked a bit more (8 in 61 ABs) and had more power (5 doubles and a HR in 61 ABs). Based on that, he deserved what he got (sent to AAA)?

Tracer Bullet · July 30, 2007

Murton still did play more than Floyd did over the first couple months of the year.

After May, Floyd had 104 ABs (and 9 BBs) and Murton had 105 (and 12 BBs). Technically correct, but I think it's more accurate to say they played about the same amount over the first couple months, don't you?

CubColtPacer · July 30, 2007

Murton still did play more than Floyd did over the first couple months of the year.

After May, Floyd had 104 ABs (and 9 BBs) and Murton had 105 (and 12 BBs). Technically correct, but I think it's more accurate to say they played about the same amount over the first couple months, don't you?

Yeah, it would be. Sorry about the confusion.

Derwood · July 30, 2007

as long as we're quoting stats, here's two part time OF's for the Cubs this year:

a) 121 AB, .248/.326/.331/.657, 1 HR, 8 RBI

b) 134 AB, .284/.329/.470/.799, 4 HR, 21 RBI

If you were Lou, which would you choose?
very funny, Floyd should play but not every day,he can't physically handle it and by the way Murton had it figured out at AAA, both offensively and defensively.

player B isn't Floyd

Tracer Bullet · July 30, 2007

as long as we're quoting stats, here's two part time OF's for the Cubs this year:

a) 121 AB, .248/.326/.331/.657, 1 HR, 8 RBI

b) 134 AB, .284/.329/.470/.799, 4 HR, 21 RBI

If you were Lou, which would you choose?

RBI? Come on man, you're better than that.

If I were Lou, I'd hope there was more information available than 120 or 130 ABs. Because you can make a lot of dumb decisions if you base them on small samples.

So when I found that other information that said:

player A had a .297/.365/.444/.809 line in his first full ML season last year and career MiLB OPS of .851 and a AAA OPS of .921 in 2005 and .977 this year (his last 2 seasons there),

and player B had a .701 OPS in 170 ABs last season and a career OPS of .711 in the minors,

I'd take player A.

Tracer Bullet · July 30, 2007

as long as we're quoting stats, here's two part time OF's for the Cubs this year:

a) 121 AB, .248/.326/.331/.657, 1 HR, 8 RBI

b) 134 AB, .284/.329/.470/.799, 4 HR, 21 RBI

If you were Lou, which would you choose?
very funny, Floyd should play but not every day,he can't physically handle it and by the way Murton had it figured out at AAA, both offensively and defensively.

player B isn't Floyd

Are you really campaigning for Pagan over Murton?

Skyballer · July 30, 2007

as long as we're quoting stats, here's two part time OF's for the Cubs this year:

a) 121 AB, .248/.326/.331/.657, 1 HR, 8 RBI

b) 134 AB, .284/.329/.470/.799, 4 HR, 21 RBI

If you were Lou, which would you choose?
very funny, Floyd should play but not every day,he can't physically handle it and by the way Murton had it figured out at AAA, both offensively and defensively.

player B isn't Floyd

Are you really campaigning for Pagan over Murton?

Could be, don't know why though

Derwood · July 30, 2007

as long as we're quoting stats, here's two part time OF's for the Cubs this year:

a) 121 AB, .248/.326/.331/.657, 1 HR, 8 RBI

b) 134 AB, .284/.329/.470/.799, 4 HR, 21 RBI

If you were Lou, which would you choose?
very funny, Floyd should play but not every day,he can't physically handle it and by the way Murton had it figured out at AAA, both offensively and defensively.

player B isn't Floyd

Are you really campaigning for Pagan over Murton?

no, just playing devil's advocate and maybe trying to explain why LOU would start one over the other. career numbers are good and all, but I think Lou is a "what have you done for me lately" guy, and clearly Pagan has made the better of his AB's this year than Murton has

Tracer Bullet · July 30, 2007

as long as we're quoting stats, here's two part time OF's for the Cubs this year:

a) 121 AB, .248/.326/.331/.657, 1 HR, 8 RBI

b) 134 AB, .284/.329/.470/.799, 4 HR, 21 RBI

If you were Lou, which would you choose?
very funny, Floyd should play but not every day,he can't physically handle it and by the way Murton had it figured out at AAA, both offensively and defensively.

player B isn't Floyd

Are you really campaigning for Pagan over Murton?

no, just playing devil's advocate and maybe trying to explain why LOU would start one over the other. career numbers are good and all, but I think Lou is a "what have you done for me lately" guy, and clearly Pagan has made the better of his AB's this year than Murton has

It certainly seems that Lou is a "what have you done for me lately" guy - though some guys get longer leashes than others. I have to believe Murton kicked Lou's dog or hit on his daughter* or something.

*I don't know if Lou even has a dog, or a daughter for that matter.

Skyballer · July 30, 2007

as long as we're quoting stats, here's two part time OF's for the Cubs this year:

a) 121 AB, .248/.326/.331/.657, 1 HR, 8 RBI

b) 134 AB, .284/.329/.470/.799, 4 HR, 21 RBI

If you were Lou, which would you choose?
very funny, Floyd should play but not every day,he can't physically handle it and by the way Murton had it figured out at AAA, both offensively and defensively.

player B isn't Floyd

Are you really campaigning for Pagan over Murton?

no, just playing devil's advocate and maybe trying to explain why LOU would start one over the other. career numbers are good and all, but I think Lou is a "what have you done for me lately" guy, and clearly Pagan has made the better of his AB's this year than Murton has

It certainly seems that Lou is a "what have you done for me lately" guy - though some guys get longer leashes than others. I have to believe Murton kicked Lou's dog or hit on his daughter* or something.

*I don't know if Lou even has a dog, or a daughter for that matter.

I have been saying this all along. :lol:

jaxxradio · July 30, 2007

He's still ticked off at Murton for dropping two fly balls earlier in the season when the Cubs got off to a crappy start.

Talk about holding a grudge.. jeez, get over it already and play him.

seanimal · July 30, 2007

as long as we're quoting stats, here's two part time OF's for the Cubs this year:

a) 121 AB, .248/.326/.331/.657, 1 HR, 8 RBI

b) 134 AB, .284/.329/.470/.799, 4 HR, 21 RBI

If you were Lou, which would you choose?
very funny, Floyd should play but not every day,he can't physically handle it and by the way Murton had it figured out at AAA, both offensively and defensively.

player B isn't Floyd

Are you really campaigning for Pagan over Murton?

no, just playing devil's advocate and maybe trying to explain why LOU would start one over the other. career numbers are good and all, but I think Lou is a "what have you done for me lately" guy, and clearly Pagan has made the better of his AB's this year than Murton has

Yeah, Lou didn't see Murton last year, though I'm sure he's seen the stats. Pagan has hit better this year with the big league club, but I think it has just as much to do with hitting as it does with those two things Lou identified in that now infamous press conference: baserunning and defense. Pagan is... serviceable on the basepaths with excellent speed and he plays good defense. In Murton's time up with the club this season, he looked awful in those aspects. That's not to say that the choice of Pagan over Murton does justice to what he can do on the field when given regular playing time, but I just don't see Lou as wanting to take the chance of giving Murton that significant time that he needs, for better or for worse.

Skyballer · July 30, 2007

He's still ticked off at Murton for dropping two fly balls earlier in the season when the Cubs got off to a crappy start.

Talk about holding a grudge.. jeez, get over it already and play him.

Some of Lou's decisions are questionable to say the least, but overall I like him.

jaxxradio · July 30, 2007

Don't get me wrong, I like Lou. He's put a fire under this team and for the most part, he does a good job of managing. I just wish he would give this kid a legitimate chance now that the Cubs are playing better.

It makes ZERO sense to have Murton sent down to Triple-A with the sole purpose of working on playing right-field and getting adapted to the subtle changes and then have him rot on the bench when he gets back to the majors.

Peoriaman · July 30, 2007

Rot on the bench? Man, hyperbole galore here. We are trying to win a division and Murton got called up 3 or 4 days ago. You already have him rotting?

Ideas about Murton

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