Matt Murton Discussion/Rant/Opinion Thread

[apete6]

Since everyone's favorite red haired Cub seems to be a polarizing figure on this board, I would like to create this thread so that everyone can vent and argue about Murton here instead of hijacking every single other thread discussing outfields on this team, on other teams, or proposed to be on the Cubs.

 

My thought is that Murton will/should be called up after the trade deadline IF they can't acquire anyone who is significantly better AND more proven than him such as Dunn or Griffey. I think he will be a very solid player who can hit in the .280-.310 range with a .375-ish OBP and 20 HR while being a well below average right fielder and an average-ish left fielder.

 

Some around here consider that awesome, some consider that blasphemy. Whatever opinion you have, please post it here and stop comparing Murton to every outfielder from Tuffy Rhodes to Roberto Clemente in other threads. Thank you...

[A New Era]

Maybe the mods can transer the more than 1000 posts that have been rants about Murton here.

[soapy]

Some around here consider that awesome, some consider that blasphemy. Whatever opinion you have, please post it here and stop comparing Murton to every outfielder from Tuffy Rhodes to Roberto Clemente in other threads. Thank you...

 

I don't think it's people necessarily want to compare Murton to everyone, but when you start talking about acquiring guys like Craig Monroe and Jeff Conine, people are going to bring up Murton.

 

The point being that it's stupid to give up something (anything) to get guys like that when you have a 25 year-old under your control who can match or surpass the production those players will give you.

 

Similarly, Cedeno is/will be brought up every time someone suggests picking up a mediocre SS.

[Derwood]

why has no one considered that maybe, just maybe, there is something about murton that the organization just doesn't like? it's easy to just say "the cubs are idiots for not using him", but is there even a hint of a chance that they know something we don't?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

why has no one considered that maybe, just maybe, there is something about murton that the organization just doesn't like? it's easy to just say "the cubs are idiots for not using him", but is there even a hint of a chance that they know something we don't?

 

Then why use him all last year(with a good deal of success)? It's not as if Murton has been permanently oppressed, he performed in an extended period last year, and this year he got banished for a poor month.

[Derwood]

why has no one considered that maybe, just maybe, there is something about murton that the organization just doesn't like? it's easy to just say "the cubs are idiots for not using him", but is there even a hint of a chance that they know something we don't?

 

Then why use him all last year(with a good deal of success)? It's not as if Murton has been permanently oppressed, he performed in an extended period last year, and this year he got banished for a poor month.

 

i'm just posing the possibility that there is more to it than "a poor month".

[Transmogrified Tiger]

why has no one considered that maybe, just maybe, there is something about murton that the organization just doesn't like? it's easy to just say "the cubs are idiots for not using him", but is there even a hint of a chance that they know something we don't?

 

Then why use him all last year(with a good deal of success)? It's not as if Murton has been permanently oppressed, he performed in an extended period last year, and this year he got banished for a poor month.

 

i'm just posing the possibility that there is more to it than "a poor month".

 

So between last year and his demotion he developed some type of problem?

[Derwood]

i'm saying maybe he's lazy. maybe he has an attitude problem. maybe he had a run in with Lou. there's any number of things we don't know about that could be the reason for him being banished to AAA. i think it's easy to write off the organization as stupid, but there's probably a reason they are paid to make baseball decisions and we're sitting at home typing on a message board

[jersey cubs fan]

why has no one considered that maybe, just maybe, there is something about murton that the organization just doesn't like? it's easy to just say "the cubs are idiots for not using him", but is there even a hint of a chance that they know something we don't?

 

And they had something agianst Rich Hill too. I don't really think that's a valid consideration to make. If there's something about Murton they just don't like, that's their own damn problem.

[soapy]

why has no one considered that maybe, just maybe, there is something about murton that the organization just doesn't like? it's easy to just say "the cubs are idiots for not using him", but is there even a hint of a chance that they know something we don't?

 

Then why use him all last year(with a good deal of success)? It's not as if Murton has been permanently oppressed, he performed in an extended period last year, and this year he got banished for a poor month.

 

i'm just posing the possibility that there is more to it than "a poor month".

certainly it's 'possible', but how likely is it? it's not like he's not producing at AAA right now. considering the cubs past, i'm inclined to lean toward mis-management rather than some mysterious problem nobody seems to know about.

[CubinNY]

i'm saying maybe he's lazy. maybe he has an attitude problem. maybe he had a run in with Lou. there's any number of things we don't know about that could be the reason for him being banished to AAA. i think it's easy to write off the organization as stupid, but there's probably a reason they are paid to make baseball decisions and we're sitting at home typing on a message board

All the reasons you listed above are stupid reasons to "banish him to AAA. If the Cubs did those things they are stupid.

 

I cannot put it any more simple than that.

Edited July 24, 2007 by CubinNY

[jersey cubs fan]

i'm saying maybe he's lazy. maybe he has an attitude problem. maybe he had a run in with Lou. there's any number of things we don't know about that could be the reason for him being banished to AAA. i think it's easy to write off the organization as stupid, but there's probably a reason they are paid to make baseball decisions and we're sitting at home typing on a message board

 

Or maybe they are just a poorly run organization with poor decision making capabilities.

[Derwood]

all i'm saying is that Matt Murton could be great, could be just fine, or could be Jason DuBois redux. AAA numbers are great, and can be predictive to a point, but you could make a long list of guys who did great in AAA and never made it in the bigs

[Transmogrified Tiger]

all i'm saying is that Matt Murton could be great, could be just fine, or could be Jason DuBois redux. AAA numbers are great, and can be predictive to a point, but you could make a long list of guys who did great in AAA and never made it in the bigs

 

Except he's already produced in the big leagues over nearly a full season.

[CubinNY]

all i'm saying is that Matt Murton could be great, could be just fine, or could be Jason DuBois redux. AAA numbers are great, and can be predictive to a point, but you could make a long list of guys who did great in AAA and never made it in the bigs

 

To me what you have posted there is the biggest cause of the problems when people call someone a "Murton lover" or whatever (not that you are one of them).

 

Murton is not going to be a superstar. He's not going to be great. But what he will do, if past performance is any predictor of future performance, is get on base, hit a few HRs, and hit for good average. These are all things the Cubs need. He might not be better than Floyd, but he probably will be healthier and he's cheap so the Cubs can look to spend money elsewhere.

 

I don't think anyone thinks the Cubs are holding down a potental star, but I think they are making poor decisions. Those poor decisions started way back in the offseason.

Edited July 24, 2007 by CubinNY

[soapy]

all i'm saying is that Matt Murton could be great, could be just fine, or could be Jason DuBois redux. AAA numbers are great, and can be predictive to a point, but you could make a long list of guys who did great in AAA and never made it in the bigs

 

Except he's already produced in the big leagues over nearly a full season.

 

exactly. further, what is there to lose by (at least) putting him in RF against lefties? not to mention the fact that floyd can't stay healthy enough to play everyday anyway.

[UMFan83]

Adding to this discussion, I want to see how people think Matt Murton would project over a full season at the peak of his career.

 

I'd say .310/.400/.485

[Derwood]

all i'm saying is that Matt Murton could be great, could be just fine, or could be Jason DuBois redux. AAA numbers are great, and can be predictive to a point, but you could make a long list of guys who did great in AAA and never made it in the bigs

 

To me what you have posted there is the biggest cause of the problems when people call someone a "Murton lover" or whatever (not that you are one of them).

 

Murton is not going to be a superstar. He's not going to be great. But what he will do, if past performance is any predictor of future performance, is get on base, hit a few HRs, and hit for good average. These are all things the Cubs need. He might not be better than Floyd, but he probably will be healthier and he's cheap so the Cubs can look to spend money elsewhere.

 

I don't think anyone thinks the Cubs are holding down a potental star, but I think they are making poor decisions. Those poor decisions started way back in the offseason.

 

he would be fine if the team was getting power from more than two spots in the order. If Lee had 18 HR right now, then fine, stick him out there. But people can't say a) we really need more power and b) how dare we don't play Murton in RF

[CubinNY]

all i'm saying is that Matt Murton could be great, could be just fine, or could be Jason DuBois redux. AAA numbers are great, and can be predictive to a point, but you could make a long list of guys who did great in AAA and never made it in the bigs

 

To me what you have posted there is the biggest cause of the problems when people call someone a "Murton lover" or whatever (not that you are one of them).

 

Murton is not going to be a superstar. He's not going to be great. But what he will do, if past performance is any predictor of future performance, is get on base, hit a few HRs, and hit for good average. These are all things the Cubs need. He might not be better than Floyd, but he probably will be healthier and he's cheap so the Cubs can look to spend money elsewhere.

 

I don't think anyone thinks the Cubs are holding down a potental star, but I think they are making poor decisions. Those poor decisions started way back in the offseason.

 

he would be fine if the team was getting power from more than two spots in the order. If Lee had 18 HR right now, then fine, stick him out there. But people can't say a) we really need more power and b) how dare we don't play Murton in RF

They're getting nothing from RF right now in terms of power.

[Soriano12]

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/6260/murtonyv4.jpg

[soapy]

all i'm saying is that Matt Murton could be great, could be just fine, or could be Jason DuBois redux. AAA numbers are great, and can be predictive to a point, but you could make a long list of guys who did great in AAA and never made it in the bigs

 

To me what you have posted there is the biggest cause of the problems when people call someone a "Murton lover" or whatever (not that you are one of them).

 

Murton is not going to be a superstar. He's not going to be great. But what he will do, if past performance is any predictor of future performance, is get on base, hit a few HRs, and hit for good average. These are all things the Cubs need. He might not be better than Floyd, but he probably will be healthier and he's cheap so the Cubs can look to spend money elsewhere.

 

I don't think anyone thinks the Cubs are holding down a potental star, but I think they are making poor decisions. Those poor decisions started way back in the offseason.

 

he would be fine if the team was getting power from more than two spots in the order. If Lee had 18 HR right now, then fine, stick him out there. But people can't say a) we really need more power and b) how dare we don't play Murton in RF

you're acting like people are making a choice between murton and griffey or something! the choice is murton or pagan/floyd/jones/some other mediocre RFer who can't hit.

 

of course the cubs should attempt to find someone who can outproduce murton (from a SLG standpoint) if they can. but for now, he's the best option that they control. why not have him in there vs. LHP, at an absolute minimum?

 

Wouldn't you rather have Murton's bat in there against LHP instead of Floyd, Pagan or Fontenot? That's essentially the choice being made here.

Edited July 24, 2007 by soapy

[Ding Dong Johnson]

i'm saying maybe he's lazy. maybe he has an attitude problem. maybe he had a run in with Lou.

 

that goes completely against everything that's been said about him since he's joined the Cubs org

[Soul]

I just think we are desperate for power, Murton doesn't provide it. Lou's gambling on Floyd providing it; I think it's a significant gamble and we need to make a move to get more power from somewhere. I can't get too upset over Murton for these reasons. He should be a good kid somewhere down the line, but right now he's not going to fill the dire need.

 

It's Wrigley in the 2nd half. Wind starts blowing out, and the team that muscles up the most usually wins. We start getting into bashing contests with only Lee & ARam powering our train, we're probably going to derail.

[jersey cubs fan]

he would be fine if the team was getting power from more than two spots in the order. If Lee had 18 HR right now, then fine, stick him out there. But people can't say a) we really need more power and b) how dare we don't play Murton in RF

 

Power isn't the only need. Have people forgotten the OBP issues? OBP has been the biggest problem for years, and they still lag behind there, due mostly to the lack of walks. In the NL, they are 8th in SLG and 10th in OBP. And OBP is the more important of the two factors in OPS.

 

We need more productivity, and Murton can be productive. He already has been at the major league level, and the entirety of his professional career he is likely to be over the next few years.

 

Adding to this discussion, I want to see how people think Matt Murton would project over a full season at the peak of his career.

 

I'd say .310/.400/.485

 

At his peak, that's probably fair. Although he could be a bit higher in SLG. I think he's a guy who would exceed the 900 level in OPS, if things came together.

[soapy]

I just think we are desperate for power, Murton doesn't provide it. Lou's gambling on Floyd providing it; I think it's a significant gamble and we need to make a move to get more power from somewhere. I can't get too upset over Murton for these reasons. He should be a good kid somewhere down the line, but right now he's not going to fill the dire need.

 

It's Wrigley in the 2nd half. Wind starts blowing out, and the team that muscles up the most usually wins. We start getting into bashing contests with only Lee & ARam powering our train, we're probably going to derail.

but don't you think murton is a better bet to provide that missing power vs. a LHP than Floyd, Pagan or Fontenot? none is likely too, but murton at least gives you the best chance.