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Posted
wow, the initial reaction is that a deal of a young 2B that is better the eric patterson, a young OF with speed and good tools, and a hard throwing middle reliever is ridiculous.

 

I still have no idea why people here value Dunn so much. MLB professionals obviously don't. That deal is so overly in the favor of the Reds its ridiculous. It is the equivalent of Patterson, Murton and Wuertz. Is that a deal that the board members here would be in favor of? I know I wouldn't be. Dunn is overvalued, has a bad attitude and a huge ego. I would rather DeRosa start everday in RF then have Dunn on this team. I doubt the difference in power would be a huge difference on this team when compared to the other parts of DeRosa's offense that are better then Dunn (see strikeout records)

 

I get what you're saying about MLB guys seemingly not valuing Dunn as much as us, but i'd still do that proposed trade.

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Posted
wow, the initial reaction is that a deal of a young 2B that is better the eric patterson, a young OF with speed and good tools, and a hard throwing middle reliever is ridiculous.

Oh, somebody gets it.

 

I just don't think, right or wrong, that Dunn's value is as high as people think it is. I just don't see teams offering top prospects for Dunn.

Posted
Apparently the "hot" rumor in Atlanta this afternoon was Dunn going to the Crew for Weeks, Gwynn, and Wise.

 

Now mind you, this is only a rumor, and this isn't like the Jacque deal. I've heard Dunn deals before that didn't go down, but just some food for thought.

 

The main value in that trade is weeks and the reds already have Phillips breaking out. Gwynn is a 4th OF and Wise is a fine 6th inning guy, but I don't get it.

 

Hurry Jim, call Krivisky right now and offer him Pagan, Ohman, and DeRosa.

 

Eh, we would find a place for Weeks and Phillips to play. I don't know where, but we would. I don't care what he is hitting htis year, Weeks has a boat load of potential and I would love to have him.

 

If you think you can do better, lets hear an offer.

 

I have an idea...play one of them at third!!!

 

I wonder what E.E. did in previous life that was so bad that God made him be in the Reds organization.

Now THAT'S a good question.

 

I have no idea what the hell we are doing with him. It's like we are trying to mess him up. Part of me hopes we trade him for his own good, even though he is my favorite Red.

 

Although that didn't work out too well for Wily Mo.

 

In regards to the trade proposal, it just doesnt make sense to me. I would think they would be going after young starters....or 17 relievers.

There was just no room for Wily Mo.

 

We've been giving some of Edwin's playing time to Ryan Freel and Norris Hopper. Doesn't make any sense.

 

Yeah, but unfortunately then Krivsky turned around and traded Kearns. Who was yet another player that was handled horribly. Ugh, that organization disgusts me.

 

You should make a big sign and take it to a game. Have it read "Norris Freakin' Hopper?!?!?"

 

We'll see how the screw up Bailey, Bruce, and Votto next...can't wait.

Posted (edited)
wow, the initial reaction is that a deal of a young 2B that is better the eric patterson, a young OF with speed and good tools, and a hard throwing middle reliever is ridiculous.

 

I still have no idea why people here value Dunn so much. MLB professionals obviously don't. That deal is so overly in the favor of the Reds its ridiculous. It is the equivalent of Patterson, Murton and Wuertz. Is that a deal that the board members here would be in favor of? I know I wouldn't be. Dunn is overvalued, has a bad attitude and a huge ego. I would rather DeRosa start everday in RF then have Dunn on this team. I doubt the difference in power would be a huge difference on this team when compared to the other parts of DeRosa's offense that are better then Dunn (see strikeout records)

 

You are somehow wrong on both sides. Dunn is about a billion times more valuable than you're giving him credit for. Murton, EPatt, Wuertz >> Weeks, Gwynn, Wise. And if we were able to get him for an equivalency of Weeks, Gwynn, Wise(think EPatt, Pagan, Petrick) we should fall over ourselves to do it.

You overrate you're own prospects. I wouldn't deal Weeks by himself for those 3 guys.

Edited by reds44
Posted
Apparently the "hot" rumor in Atlanta this afternoon was Dunn going to the Crew for Weeks, Gwynn, and Wise.

 

Now mind you, this is only a rumor, and this isn't like the Jacque deal. I've heard Dunn deals before that didn't go down, but just some food for thought.

 

The main value in that trade is weeks and the reds already have Phillips breaking out. Gwynn is a 4th OF and Wise is a fine 6th inning guy, but I don't get it.

 

Hurry Jim, call Krivisky right now and offer him Pagan, Ohman, and DeRosa.

 

Eh, we would find a place for Weeks and Phillips to play. I don't know where, but we would. I don't care what he is hitting htis year, Weeks has a boat load of potential and I would love to have him.

 

If you think you can do better, lets hear an offer.

 

I have an idea...play one of them at third!!!

 

I wonder what E.E. did in previous life that was so bad that God made him be in the Reds organization.

Now THAT'S a good question.

 

I have no idea what the hell we are doing with him. It's like we are trying to mess him up. Part of me hopes we trade him for his own good, even though he is my favorite Red.

 

Although that didn't work out too well for Wily Mo.

 

In regards to the trade proposal, it just doesnt make sense to me. I would think they would be going after young starters....or 17 relievers.

There was just no room for Wily Mo.

 

We've been giving some of Edwin's playing time to Ryan Freel and Norris Hopper. Doesn't make any sense.

 

Yeah, but unfortunately then Krivsky turned around and traded Kearns. Who was yet another player that was handled horribly. Ugh, that organization disgusts me.

 

You should make a big sign and take it to a game. Have it read "Norris Freakin' Hopper?!?!?"

 

We'll see how the screw up Bailey, Bruce, and Votto next...can't wait.

You must have missed it, he already screwed up Bailey. He's gotten rocked his first two starts back in AAA. He was never ready to begin with, and shouldn't have been called up.

 

I'm sure he won't like Votto and Bruce because "they aren't scrappy and strike out too much".

Old-Timey Member
Posted
wow, the initial reaction is that a deal of a young 2B that is better the eric patterson, a young OF with speed and good tools, and a hard throwing middle reliever is ridiculous.

 

I still have no idea why people here value Dunn so much. MLB professionals obviously don't. That deal is so overly in the favor of the Reds its ridiculous. It is the equivalent of Patterson, Murton and Wuertz. Is that a deal that the board members here would be in favor of? I know I wouldn't be. Dunn is overvalued, has a bad attitude and a huge ego. I would rather DeRosa start everday in RF then have Dunn on this team. I doubt the difference in power would be a huge difference on this team when compared to the other parts of DeRosa's offense that are better then Dunn (see strikeout records)

 

We value him because he'd be the most productive outfielder we've had since Sammy Sosa circa 2003. Patterson, Murton, and Wuertz? Sold and signed.

Posted
wow, the initial reaction is that a deal of a young 2B that is better the eric patterson, a young OF with speed and good tools, and a hard throwing middle reliever is ridiculous.

 

I still have no idea why people here value Dunn so much. MLB professionals obviously don't. That deal is so overly in the favor of the Reds its ridiculous. It is the equivalent of Patterson, Murton and Wuertz. Is that a deal that the board members here would be in favor of? I know I wouldn't be. Dunn is overvalued, has a bad attitude and a huge ego. I would rather DeRosa start everday in RF then have Dunn on this team. I doubt the difference in power would be a huge difference on this team when compared to the other parts of DeRosa's offense that are better then Dunn (see strikeout records)

 

You are somehow wrong on both sides. Dunn is about a billion times more valuable than you're giving him credit for. Murton, EPatt, Wuertz >> Weeks, Gwynn, Wise. And if we were able to get him for an equivalency of Weeks, Gwynn, Wise(think EPatt, Pagan, Petrick) we should fall over ourselves to do it.

You overrate you're own prospects. I wouldn't deal Weeks by himself for those 3 guys.

 

You're overrating Weeks by quite a bit.

Posted

Dunn has a bad attitude and a huge ego?

 

That's news to me. Everything I see and hear is that he is a great teammate.

Posted
wow, the initial reaction is that a deal of a young 2B that is better the eric patterson, a young OF with speed and good tools, and a hard throwing middle reliever is ridiculous.

 

I still have no idea why people here value Dunn so much. MLB professionals obviously don't. That deal is so overly in the favor of the Reds its ridiculous. It is the equivalent of Patterson, Murton and Wuertz. Is that a deal that the board members here would be in favor of? I know I wouldn't be. Dunn is overvalued, has a bad attitude and a huge ego. I would rather DeRosa start everday in RF then have Dunn on this team. I doubt the difference in power would be a huge difference on this team when compared to the other parts of DeRosa's offense that are better then Dunn (see strikeout records)

 

derosa better than dunn? this board has brought me quite a few laughs the last week or so, but that maybe the best knee-slapper of them all.

 

seriously though, it's amazing how just about every sentence you just wrote is completely and totally wrong.

Posted
wow, the initial reaction is that a deal of a young 2B that is better the eric patterson, a young OF with speed and good tools, and a hard throwing middle reliever is ridiculous.

 

I still have no idea why people here value Dunn so much. MLB professionals obviously don't. That deal is so overly in the favor of the Reds its ridiculous. It is the equivalent of Patterson, Murton and Wuertz. Is that a deal that the board members here would be in favor of? I know I wouldn't be. Dunn is overvalued, has a bad attitude and a huge ego. I would rather DeRosa start everday in RF then have Dunn on this team. I doubt the difference in power would be a huge difference on this team when compared to the other parts of DeRosa's offense that are better then Dunn (see strikeout records)

 

You are somehow wrong on both sides. Dunn is about a billion times more valuable than you're giving him credit for. Murton, EPatt, Wuertz >> Weeks, Gwynn, Wise. And if we were able to get him for an equivalency of Weeks, Gwynn, Wise(think EPatt, Pagan, Petrick) we should fall over ourselves to do it.

You overrate you're own prospects.

 

Then so does BP, here are their MORPs over the next 5 years

Patterson =71.45M

Pagan=25.475

Petrick=NA (Wuertz is 11.1M)

 

Weeks=49.9M

Wise=3M

Gwynn=NA (but hes a 4th OF, no better than Pagan)

Posted
wow, the initial reaction is that a deal of a young 2B that is better the eric patterson, a young OF with speed and good tools, and a hard throwing middle reliever is ridiculous.

 

I still have no idea why people here value Dunn so much. MLB professionals obviously don't. That deal is so overly in the favor of the Reds its ridiculous. It is the equivalent of Patterson, Murton and Wuertz. Is that a deal that the board members here would be in favor of? I know I wouldn't be. Dunn is overvalued, has a bad attitude and a huge ego. I would rather DeRosa start everday in RF then have Dunn on this team. I doubt the difference in power would be a huge difference on this team when compared to the other parts of DeRosa's offense that are better then Dunn (see strikeout records)

 

You are somehow wrong on both sides. Dunn is about a billion times more valuable than you're giving him credit for. Murton, EPatt, Wuertz >> Weeks, Gwynn, Wise. And if we were able to get him for an equivalency of Weeks, Gwynn, Wise(think EPatt, Pagan, Petrick) we should fall over ourselves to do it.

You overrate you're own prospects. I wouldn't deal Weeks by himself for those 3 guys.

 

You're overrating Weeks by quite a bit.

No I'm not.

 

Pagan is a 5th outfielder. Weurtz is a nice little MR who basically washes with Wise. Patterson is another little MIF who will probably never be more then a reserve.

 

Weeks, on the other hand, has big upside with a quick bat. He has some pop, and he can steal bases. He had a good year last year and is goin through some growing pains this year. He has the upside to be an all-star, meanwhile the 3 guys you mentioned have the upside of a 5th outfielder, a MR, and a utility infielder.

 

Weeks, Wise, and Gwynn and Wuertz, Patterson, and Pagan aren't even comparable. You overrate your own guys, as many fans do.

Posted
wow, the initial reaction is that a deal of a young 2B that is better the eric patterson, a young OF with speed and good tools, and a hard throwing middle reliever is ridiculous.

 

I still have no idea why people here value Dunn so much. MLB professionals obviously don't. That deal is so overly in the favor of the Reds its ridiculous. It is the equivalent of Patterson, Murton and Wuertz. Is that a deal that the board members here would be in favor of? I know I wouldn't be. Dunn is overvalued, has a bad attitude and a huge ego. I would rather DeRosa start everday in RF then have Dunn on this team. I doubt the difference in power would be a huge difference on this team when compared to the other parts of DeRosa's offense that are better then Dunn (see strikeout records)

 

You are somehow wrong on both sides. Dunn is about a billion times more valuable than you're giving him credit for. Murton, EPatt, Wuertz >> Weeks, Gwynn, Wise. And if we were able to get him for an equivalency of Weeks, Gwynn, Wise(think EPatt, Pagan, Petrick) we should fall over ourselves to do it.

You overrate you're own prospects.

 

Then so does BP, here are their MORPs over the next 5 years

Patterson =71.45M

Pagan=25.475

Petrick=NA (Wuertz is 11.1M)

 

Weeks=49.9M

Wise=3M

Gwynn=NA (but hes a 4th OF, no better than Pagan)

What the hell is MORP?

 

Money above replacement player?

Posted
wow, the initial reaction is that a deal of a young 2B that is better the eric patterson, a young OF with speed and good tools, and a hard throwing middle reliever is ridiculous.

 

I still have no idea why people here value Dunn so much. MLB professionals obviously don't. That deal is so overly in the favor of the Reds its ridiculous. It is the equivalent of Patterson, Murton and Wuertz. Is that a deal that the board members here would be in favor of? I know I wouldn't be. Dunn is overvalued, has a bad attitude and a huge ego. I would rather DeRosa start everday in RF then have Dunn on this team. I doubt the difference in power would be a huge difference on this team when compared to the other parts of DeRosa's offense that are better then Dunn (see strikeout records)

 

You are somehow wrong on both sides. Dunn is about a billion times more valuable than you're giving him credit for. Murton, EPatt, Wuertz >> Weeks, Gwynn, Wise. And if we were able to get him for an equivalency of Weeks, Gwynn, Wise(think EPatt, Pagan, Petrick) we should fall over ourselves to do it.

You overrate you're own prospects. I wouldn't deal Weeks by himself for those 3 guys.

 

You're overrating Weeks by quite a bit.

No I'm not.

 

Pagan is a 5th outfielder. Weurtz is a nice little MR who basically washes with Wise. Patterson is another little MIF who will probably never be more then a reserve.

 

Weeks, on the other hand, has big upside with a quick bat. He has some pop, and he can steal bases. He had a good year last year and is goin through some growing pains this year. He has the upside to be an all-star, meanwhile the 3 guys you mentioned have the upside of a 5th outfielder, a MR, and a utility infielder.

 

Weeks, Wise, and Gwynn and Wuertz, Patterson, and Pagan aren't even comparable. You overrate your own guys, as many fans do.

 

I have to disagree with you on Patterson. There's no doubt that he can become a very solid and dependable starting 2B in the very near future. There's no way that his peak will be a reserve middle IF.

Posted
Apparently the "hot" rumor in Atlanta this afternoon was Dunn going to the Crew for Weeks, Gwynn, and Wise.

 

Now mind you, this is only a rumor, and this isn't like the Jacque deal. I've heard Dunn deals before that didn't go down, but just some food for thought.

 

The main value in that trade is weeks and the reds already have Phillips breaking out. Gwynn is a 4th OF and Wise is a fine 6th inning guy, but I don't get it.

 

Hurry Jim, call Krivisky right now and offer him Pagan, Ohman, and DeRosa.

 

Eh, we would find a place for Weeks and Phillips to play. I don't know where, but we would. I don't care what he is hitting htis year, Weeks has a boat load of potential and I would love to have him.

 

If you think you can do better, lets hear an offer.

 

I have an idea...play one of them at third!!!

 

I wonder what E.E. did in previous life that was so bad that God made him be in the Reds organization.

Now THAT'S a good question.

 

I have no idea what the hell we are doing with him. It's like we are trying to mess him up. Part of me hopes we trade him for his own good, even though he is my favorite Red.

 

Although that didn't work out too well for Wily Mo.

 

In regards to the trade proposal, it just doesnt make sense to me. I would think they would be going after young starters....or 17 relievers.

There was just no room for Wily Mo.

 

We've been giving some of Edwin's playing time to Ryan Freel and Norris Hopper. Doesn't make any sense.

 

Yeah, but unfortunately then Krivsky turned around and traded Kearns. Who was yet another player that was handled horribly. Ugh, that organization disgusts me.

 

You should make a big sign and take it to a game. Have it read "Norris Freakin' Hopper?!?!?"

 

We'll see how the screw up Bailey, Bruce, and Votto next...can't wait.

You must have missed it, he already screwed up Bailey. He's gotten rocked his first two starts back in AAA. He was never ready to begin with, and shouldn't have been called up.

 

I'm sure he won't like Votto and Bruce because "they aren't scrappy and strike out too much".

 

Ohh, I've noticed on Bailey, but I just think that is a bad couple of starts. I would have done the same to keep him throwing in games over the ASB.

 

Now there for sure is a case to be made that he should have never been called up to begin with. While he was pitching decently this year before the call up, he definitely wasn't at his best. The smart baseball move is to put a guy like that in a posititon to succeed (especially when your season is basically over), not throw him to the wolves. And the smart business decision is to not start his service time clock.

 

Its kinda funny how a team winds up with so many players who are so ideologically opposed to what the management values. Especially when the management is a bunch of idiots. Man when they signed Eric Milton I nearly peed myself. Yeah, hes the answer in the Great American Smallpark!!!!!

Posted
Patterson has the upside of a middle infielder while Weeks is destined to be an All-Star with pop? If you say so.

Did I say Weeks is destined to be an all star?

 

At age 22, Weeks posted a 1090 OPS in the PCL.

At age 24, Patterson has an .826 OPS in the PCL.

 

Think about that.

Posted
Patterson has the upside of a middle infielder while Weeks is destined to be an All-Star with pop? If you say so.

 

if you just say stuff it automatically makes it true.

Posted
Patterson has the upside of a middle infielder while Weeks is destined to be an All-Star with pop? If you say so.

Did I say Weeks is destined to be an all star?

 

At age 22, Weeks posted a 1090 OPS in the PCL.

At age 24, Patterson has an .826 OPS in the PCL.

 

Think about that.

 

Weeks was there for 200 ABs. He also is the proud owner of a .773 OPS in a full season of AA. He went BABIP-crazy last year(.359 BABIP, 20% LD) for his only success(a whopping .766 OPS) in 1100 MLB plate appearances. What looks like the fluke out of his time in the upper minors and MLB?

Posted
wow, the initial reaction is that a deal of a young 2B that is better the eric patterson, a young OF with speed and good tools, and a hard throwing middle reliever is ridiculous.

 

I still have no idea why people here value Dunn so much. MLB professionals obviously don't. That deal is so overly in the favor of the Reds its ridiculous. It is the equivalent of Patterson, Murton and Wuertz. Is that a deal that the board members here would be in favor of? I know I wouldn't be. Dunn is overvalued, has a bad attitude and a huge ego. I would rather DeRosa start everday in RF then have Dunn on this team. I doubt the difference in power would be a huge difference on this team when compared to the other parts of DeRosa's offense that are better then Dunn (see strikeout records)

 

You are somehow wrong on both sides. Dunn is about a billion times more valuable than you're giving him credit for. Murton, EPatt, Wuertz >> Weeks, Gwynn, Wise. And if we were able to get him for an equivalency of Weeks, Gwynn, Wise(think EPatt, Pagan, Petrick) we should fall over ourselves to do it.

You overrate you're own prospects. I wouldn't deal Weeks by himself for those 3 guys.

 

You're overrating Weeks by quite a bit.

No I'm not.

 

Pagan is a 5th outfielder. Weurtz is a nice little MR who basically washes with Wise. Patterson is another little MIF who will probably never be more then a reserve.

 

Weeks, on the other hand, has big upside with a quick bat. He has some pop, and he can steal bases. He had a good year last year and is goin through some growing pains this year. He has the upside to be an all-star, meanwhile the 3 guys you mentioned have the upside of a 5th outfielder, a MR, and a utility infielder.

 

Weeks, Wise, and Gwynn and Wuertz, Patterson, and Pagan aren't even comparable. You overrate your own guys, as many fans do.

 

I'd say Weeks and Patterson have fairly equivalent upsides, but Wise and Wuertz? Wuertz's upside is decent closer, Wise's is a 7th inning guy. Pagan's bat is better than Gwynn's. Of course Weeks and Patterson are the main parts of the deal so how you view them is going to determine which package you think is better (although Wuertz should factor in as well).

Posted
wow, the initial reaction is that a deal of a young 2B that is better the eric patterson, a young OF with speed and good tools, and a hard throwing middle reliever is ridiculous.

 

I still have no idea why people here value Dunn so much. MLB professionals obviously don't. That deal is so overly in the favor of the Reds its ridiculous. It is the equivalent of Patterson, Murton and Wuertz. Is that a deal that the board members here would be in favor of? I know I wouldn't be. Dunn is overvalued, has a bad attitude and a huge ego. I would rather DeRosa start everday in RF then have Dunn on this team. I doubt the difference in power would be a huge difference on this team when compared to the other parts of DeRosa's offense that are better then Dunn (see strikeout records)

 

You are somehow wrong on both sides. Dunn is about a billion times more valuable than you're giving him credit for. Murton, EPatt, Wuertz >> Weeks, Gwynn, Wise. And if we were able to get him for an equivalency of Weeks, Gwynn, Wise(think EPatt, Pagan, Petrick) we should fall over ourselves to do it.

You overrate you're own prospects.

 

Then so does BP, here are their MORPs over the next 5 years

Patterson =71.45M

Pagan=25.475

Petrick=NA (Wuertz is 11.1M)

 

Weeks=49.9M

Wise=3M

Gwynn=NA (but hes a 4th OF, no better than Pagan)

What the hell is MORP?

 

Money above replacement player?

 

Marginal Value Above Replacement Player

 

1200000*(WARP^1.5) + 380000

Posted
Patterson has the upside of a middle infielder while Weeks is destined to be an All-Star with pop? If you say so.

Did I say Weeks is destined to be an all star?

 

At age 22, Weeks posted a 1090 OPS in the PCL.

At age 24, Patterson has an .826 OPS in the PCL.

 

Think about that.

 

Weeks was there for 200 ABs. He also is the proud owner of a .773 OPS in a full season of AA. He went BABIP-crazy last year(.359 BABIP, 20% LD) for his only success in 1100 MLB plate appearances.

Oh how awful of Weeks. How dare he get promoted to the majors.

 

So the one bad season at AA offsets his AAA and A ball numbers? The only level he didn't hit in the minors was AA.

 

Patterson was "the proud owner" of a .738 OPS in a full season at AA at age 23 (Weeks was 21 when he played in AA).

 

Hey, Brandon Phillips had a minor league OPS of .757, he's not any good either.

Posted (edited)

Let the Brewers have Dunn, for that deal, it'll make it that much easier for Hendry to go after Griffey - to make room for Gwynn in Cincy's OF (RF).

 

 

:wink:

Edited by CubsBears29
Posted

Pagan and Gwynn are both fairly valueless commodities.

 

as much talent as weeks may or may not have, i can't imagine his value is terribly high after the wrist surgey and subsequent lack of production.

Old-Timey Member
Posted

Dunn to the Brewers is not something I would be very happy to see. Make no doubt about it, Dunn is a great offensive commodity, and the fact that the brewers might get him for so little makes me cringe even more.

 

Hart, Fielder, Braun, Hardy, Dunn? Ugh......

Posted (edited)

For crying out loud, if this isn't the most tired and beaten drum in the history of this board. Adam Dunn fetish, wow.

 

For the umpteenth time:

 

1. Dunn is an enormous defensive liability, he can only play LF and 1B--and neither very well.

 

2. Alfonso Soriano and Derrek Lee are going nowhere. Neither is changing positions.

 

3. Therefore, there is zero chance the Cubs would want Adam Dunn, irregardless of what value he may or may not have as a hitter. None. Zip.

 

How about some realistic options for once? A CF or a RF. A catcher. A middle infielder. Those are the Cubs' genuine needs.

 

As for the Dunn/Brewers scenario, I like to think long-term. If the Brewers want to give away young, cheap, talent for 2 months of Adam Dunn's bat, so be it. Because there's no way they'll be able to afford him in free agency. If they sent Weeks and another young player to Cincy in this make-believe deal, Milwaukee would likely regret it for many years. So yes, I support this trade initiative.

 

[For those that may not know, it is no secret that Adam Dunn wants to play for Houston, and the Astros will have a ton of money to spend this offseason if they choose to. Lance Berkman has played RF before--were I to guess, the Astros would keep Lee in LF, move Berkman to RF, and install Dunn at 1B. That would be three nice bats to rebuild their team around.]

Edited by don_kessinger_was_good

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