Trade Lee Now

[fromthestretch]

To say that a guy that who put up OPS near 900 in a pitchers paradise consistently, is 2nd rate...well that is just wrong.

 

2nd rate among first baseman. Ranking anywhere from 20-9 among qualified 1B in OPS. 200 OPS points off the leaders. That is 2nd rate. You're far too generous if you think that's an elite 1B.

 

Defense matters to bud!

 

defense at 1b doesn't matter that much.

 

bud.

 

Ha ok how so?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_spectrum

[genbar]

uhhhh

[Backtobanks]

I think it's safe to say that D. Lee won't be traded by the Cubs. I think that his status as a respected gentleman and leader of the team will guarantee him staying with the Cubs probably until the end of his career.

[Guest]

Again, my points are misinterpreted. I didn't see Lee was past his prime, I said his abilities and value are on the decline. The question you have to ask is he worth more playing for the Cubs or more in a trade? His trade value and his playing ability are both likely to decline.

 

Certainly how quickly they decline is up for debate. PECOTA forecasts a rather steep decline after 2008. Add in his wrist injury that may have already impacted his power and I start to wonder if Lee is an elite 1b even now. If the answer is no, then trading him now makes a great deal of sense because both his value to the Cubs and his trade value is going to drop quickly. Combine that with the current market for 1b on contending teams and the trade makes a lot more sense.

[rchap24]

Again, my points are misinterpreted. I didn't see Lee was past his prime, I said his abilities and value are on the decline. The question you have to ask is he worth more playing for the Cubs or more in a trade? His trade value and his playing ability are both likely to decline.

 

Certainly how quickly they decline is up for debate. PECOTA forecasts a rather steep decline after 2008. Add in his wrist injury that may have already impacted his power and I start to wonder if Lee is an elite 1b even now. If the answer is no, then trading him now makes a great deal of sense because both his value to the Cubs and his trade value is going to drop quickly. Combine that with the current market for 1b on contending teams and the trade makes a lot more sense.

 

Look at your second post you said "Lee is past prime." the guys is 32 years old and a very selective hitter. With a hitter as good as he is its gonna be tough for him to drop off. Maybe his power will drop off from 2005, but hes a great contact hitter and the best fielding first baseman in baseball.

 

And to qoute Abuck

 

rchap24 wrote:

abuck1220 wrote:

rchap24 wrote:

jersey cubs fan wrote:

Soriano12 wrote:

To say that a guy that who put up OPS near 900 in a pitchers paradise consistently, is 2nd rate...well that is just wrong.

 

 

2nd rate among first baseman. Ranking anywhere from 20-9 among qualified 1B in OPS. 200 OPS points off the leaders. That is 2nd rate. You're far too generous if you think that's an elite 1B.

 

 

Defense matters to bud!

 

 

defense at 1b doesn't matter that much.

 

bud.

 

 

Ha ok how so?

 

 

if it's that important, why is it the place to put fat, unathletic guys who don't have another position? it's clearly the easiest defensive position to play.

 

Tell why then in little league baseball when kids arent that good they stick the worse players in left and right field. Not until highschool to they take right field out of the mix cause they put the strongest arm there. All im saying is its not that easy of a position to play.

[CubColtPacer]

To say that a guy that who put up OPS near 900 in a pitchers paradise consistently, is 2nd rate...well that is just wrong.

 

2nd rate among first baseman. Ranking anywhere from 20-9 among qualified 1B in OPS. 200 OPS points off the leaders. That is 2nd rate. You're far too generous if you think that's an elite 1B.

 

Defense matters to bud!

 

defense at 1b doesn't matter that much.

 

bud.

 

Ha ok how so?

 

if it's that important, why is it the place to put fat, unathletic guys who don't have another position? it's clearly the easiest defensive position to play.

 

First base is definitely the easiest position to play at an average level. Anybody can be stuck there, take throws, and not be terrible there, which is why several would be DH's end up playing at first.

 

However, Lee adds a lot of value defensively over a guy who is just average there. From being one of the best at picking balls out of the dirt, the long stretch that helps the ball get there slightly faster for close plays at first, and the ability to stop balls on either side of him from getting through, especially potential doubles down the line adds up to a pretty good addition of value.

 

So the difference between an average first baseman and a replacement level first baseman defensively is probably the smallest of any of the positions (and therefore just about anybody can play there), but the difference between elite and average can be quite a bit.

[Amazing_Grace]

To say that a guy that who put up OPS near 900 in a pitchers paradise consistently, is 2nd rate...well that is just wrong.

 

2nd rate among first baseman. Ranking anywhere from 20-9 among qualified 1B in OPS. 200 OPS points off the leaders. That is 2nd rate. You're far too generous if you think that's an elite 1B.

 

Defense matters to bud!

 

defense at 1b doesn't matter that much.

 

bud.

 

Ha ok how so?

 

if it's that important, why is it the place to put fat, unathletic guys who don't have another position? it's clearly the easiest defensive position to play.

 

First base is definitely the easiest position to play at an average level. Anybody can be stuck there, take throws, and not be terrible there, which is why several would be DH's end up playing at first.

 

However, Lee adds a lot of value defensively over a guy who is just average there. From being one of the best at picking balls out of the dirt, the long stretch that helps the ball get there slightly faster for close plays at first, and the ability to stop balls on either side of him from getting through, especially potential doubles down the line adds up to a pretty good addition of value.

 

So the difference between an average first baseman and a replacement level first baseman defensively is probably the smallest of any of the positions (and therefore just about anybody can play there), but the difference between elite and average can be quite a bit.

 

Actually, the first baseman is involved in more plays than any position on the field other than catcher (all those throws to first), so his defense impacts a greater percent of plays than traditional "defensive" positions. The reason you see so many bad defensive players at 1b is probably because it doesn't require a lot of speed so it tends to be where big fat guys that can hit but can't run get put.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Actually, the first baseman is involved in more plays than any position on the field other than catcher (all those throws to first), so his defense impacts a greater percent of plays than traditional "defensive" positions. The reason you see so many bad defensive players at 1b is probably because it doesn't require a lot of speed so it tends to be where big fat guys that can hit but can't run get put.

 

First base may be involved in the most plays, but in almost every play his only role is "catch the ball" or "don't catch the ball." Since major leaguers of any caliber catch almost every ball, the difference the first baseman makes on those plays is very small.

[Guest]

BP has Lee as 15 runs above replacement defensively in 2005. What is that about a win and a half? I would say that is significant.