The best Cubs lineup

[RegulusBlue]

We all know that you don't lose consistently for 100 years unless you have a plan of wrong action on the table, and we've got it in spades.

 

Here is the best lineup we can muster, one that will actually score runs and not forfeit three consecutive outs every time through the lineup.

 

Murton RF

Theriot SS

Lee 1B

Ramirez 3B

Soriano LF

Barrett C

DeRosa 2B

Pie CF

Pitcher Spot

 

RH PH Please go get somebody

LH PH Floyd

LH PH Ward

 

Never gets to play ever: Izturis, Cedeno

 

This puts all our best threats on the field and gives us the best chance of scoring in any given inning. This does assume that Pie can handle the show (if not, put in Jones I guess...). On base at the top followed by power, and as much OBP as you can fit in a lineup given our roster throughout.

 

Thoughts?

Edited April 21, 2007 by RegulusBlue

[Soriano12]

That lineup will still get owned by the likes of Kyle Loshe and Braden Looper.

[otis89]

RH PH Floyd

LH PH Ward

 

I'm confused by this. Floyd and Ward are both lefties. Do you mean one of them would be the pinch-hitter to face a righty and the other a lefty, or did you get confused and think one of them was a righty?

[RegulusBlue]

RH PH Floyd

LH PH Ward

 

I'm confused by this. Floyd and Ward are both lefties. Do you mean one of them would be the pinch-hitter to face a righty and the other a lefty, or did you get confused and think one of them was a righty?

 

Not so much confused as completely wrong. Floyd is a lefty. Too many beers in lab (don't ask).

 

I'll fix it immediately.

[RegulusBlue]

That lineup will still get owned by the likes of Kyle Loshe and Braden Looper.

 

You may be correct about this, but I'm only dealing in the best lineup that we can produce based on our current roster, not what we could or should have signed this year (ahem... JD Drew.... cough).

[Lockes Eye Scar]

Looks good to me. I'd probably flip Theriot and Murton, but it really doesn't matter that much.

[NewUserName]

Watching Craig Wilson play for Atlanta I was wondering why the Cubs made no move to get him while bringing in Floyd and Ward. I know Wilson is off to a poor start but he can play all OF positions and 1b and bats RHed. Seems to be a lot better fit than Ward.

[CubColtPacer]

Watching Craig Wilson play for Atlanta I was wondering why the Cubs made no move to get him while bringing in Floyd and Ward. I know Wilson is off to a poor start but he can play all OF positions and 1b and bats RHed. Seems to be a lot better fit than Ward.

 

Part of this I think is how late Floyd signed. At the time Ward signed, he was signed as the LH power bat and the key pinch-hitter for the team. When Floyd came available, the club felt that he would be an asset even though he does take away some of Ward's value to the club.

[Rob]

If you're really trying to maximize runs, Theriot probably shouldn't be near the top of the lineup. Modern lineup construction appreciates OBP at the top, but the best theoretical lineups have OBP and power at the top.

 

Just working with what we've got, a lineup against righties would look something like this.

 

1B Lee

LF Floyd

2B Soriano

3B Aramis

C Barrett

RF Jones

CF Pie

Pitcher

SS Theriot

 

That's caring nothing for defense, obviously. Also, you may notice Theriot in the last spot... tangotiger actually found proof of the "second leadoff hitter" theory.

 

I'm just doing this off the top of my head, of course... and relying rather heavily on a few assumptions. Floyd reverting to his pre 2006 form against righties, Pie hitting better against righties than the Big Murt, etc...

 

If those assumptions prove correct, this would be pretty darn close to the most efficient use of those resources from an offensive standpoint.

[Old Style]

If you're really trying to maximize runs, Theriot probably shouldn't be near the top of the lineup. Modern lineup construction appreciates OBP at the top, but the best theoretical lineups have OBP and power at the top.

 

Just working with what we've got, a lineup against righties would look something like this.

 

1B Lee

LF Floyd

2B Soriano

3B Aramis

C Barrett

RF Jones

CF Pie

Pitcher

SS Theriot

 

That's caring nothing for defense, obviously. Also, you may notice Theriot in the last spot... tangotiger actually found proof of the "second leadoff hitter" theory.

 

I'm just doing this off the top of my head, of course... and relying rather heavily on a few assumptions. Floyd reverting to his pre 2006 form against righties, Pie hitting better against righties than the Big Murt, etc...

 

If those assumptions prove correct, this would be pretty darn close to the most efficient use of those resources from an offensive standpoint.

Are you seriously suggesting DLee as a leadoff hitter? You might want to lay off the meth. I like the lineup posted by the thread starter, except I would flip Theriot and Murton.

[JeffH]

The Cubs best lineup would feature Piniella, Perry, and Trammell in it instead of the worthless hitters we have on the active roster.

[David]

If you're really trying to maximize runs, Theriot probably shouldn't be near the top of the lineup. Modern lineup construction appreciates OBP at the top, but the best theoretical lineups have OBP and power at the top.

 

Just working with what we've got, a lineup against righties would look something like this.

 

1B Lee

LF Floyd

2B Soriano

3B Aramis

C Barrett

RF Jones

CF Pie

Pitcher

SS Theriot

 

That's caring nothing for defense, obviously. Also, you may notice Theriot in the last spot... tangotiger actually found proof of the "second leadoff hitter" theory.

 

I'm just doing this off the top of my head, of course... and relying rather heavily on a few assumptions. Floyd reverting to his pre 2006 form against righties, Pie hitting better against righties than the Big Murt, etc...

 

If those assumptions prove correct, this would be pretty darn close to the most efficient use of those resources from an offensive standpoint.

Are you seriously suggesting DLee as a leadoff hitter? You might want to lay off the meth. I like the lineup posted by the thread starter, except I would flip Theriot and Murton.

 

The point is that, in actuality, the best lineups you can put together aren't (necessarily) really what conventional wisdom would suggest. It has been drilled into our heads for the longest time that lineups should be constructed a certain way, hence your response that Rob lay off the meth. That doesn't mean there aren't other, better ways to put together a lineup.

 

There have been more than a few studies on lineup construction that have strongly suggested that there are better ways (such as something similar to Rob's) to fill out a lineup card. It'll be a long time before a manager actually has the balls to put it into practice, though.

 

Personally, though, I don't think lineup construction matters all that much as long as you make sure that your very best hitters get the most at bats and your worst hitters get the least (which is, to a good extent, what Rob's lineup does). Even then, it probably doesn't make that much of a difference.

[TruffleShuffle]

The Cubs best lineup would feature Piniella, Perry, and Trammell in it instead of the worthless hitters we have on the active roster.

 

Perry was a lousy hitter, and Piniella was really not much better than average

[Rob]

If you're really trying to maximize runs, Theriot probably shouldn't be near the top of the lineup. Modern lineup construction appreciates OBP at the top, but the best theoretical lineups have OBP and power at the top.

 

Just working with what we've got, a lineup against righties would look something like this.

 

1B Lee

LF Floyd

2B Soriano

3B Aramis

C Barrett

RF Jones

CF Pie

Pitcher

SS Theriot

 

That's caring nothing for defense, obviously. Also, you may notice Theriot in the last spot... tangotiger actually found proof of the "second leadoff hitter" theory.

 

I'm just doing this off the top of my head, of course... and relying rather heavily on a few assumptions. Floyd reverting to his pre 2006 form against righties, Pie hitting better against righties than the Big Murt, etc...

 

If those assumptions prove correct, this would be pretty darn close to the most efficient use of those resources from an offensive standpoint.

Are you seriously suggesting DLee as a leadoff hitter? You might want to lay off the meth. I like the lineup posted by the thread starter, except I would flip Theriot and Murton.

 

First off, saying "lay off the meth" is extremely inappropriate.

 

It seems blatantly obvious you don't understand why my lineup is constructed the way it is, so here's a scenario to ponder.

 

It's the bottom of the 9th with two down, and you're down by one run. You've been one-hit the entire game. The entire game depends on who you had batting leadoff at the start of the game. Would you rather have DLee or Theriot come up to bat in that situation?

 

The bottom line is that you want your best hitters getting the most PA over the course of the season. There's no reason for a guy like Juan Pierre or even Ryan Theriot to get 30-40 more PA than DLee in any given season. Just because the conventional wisdom says that type of player should bat leadoff doesn't make it true. Conventional wisdom used to say the earth was flat and the center of the universe. Applying the scientific method, that was proven to be horribly wrong... the same way conventional lineup construction is.

 

I don't expect any manager in the league to have the cajones to make the switch. Not because they don't think it will work; it certainly will. They wont make the switch because too many baseball fans hold to archaic beliefs, and the fans do have a significant say in whether their manager sticks around for very long. The first five game losing streak of the year would have local beat writers stirring up the fanbase against the manager.

 

I can walk to my bookshelf and pull out books dedicated to this stuff, with empirical evidence to back it up.

 

You have an ad hominem attack, and what amounts to anecdotal evidence .

 

I feel quite comfortable with my position.

[chuckywang]

If you're really trying to maximize runs, Theriot probably shouldn't be near the top of the lineup. Modern lineup construction appreciates OBP at the top, but the best theoretical lineups have OBP and power at the top.

 

Just working with what we've got, a lineup against righties would look something like this.

 

1B Lee

LF Floyd

2B Soriano

3B Aramis

C Barrett

RF Jones

CF Pie

Pitcher

SS Theriot

 

That's caring nothing for defense, obviously. Also, you may notice Theriot in the last spot... tangotiger actually found proof of the "second leadoff hitter" theory.

 

I'm just doing this off the top of my head, of course... and relying rather heavily on a few assumptions. Floyd reverting to his pre 2006 form against righties, Pie hitting better against righties than the Big Murt, etc...

 

If those assumptions prove correct, this would be pretty darn close to the most efficient use of those resources from an offensive standpoint.

Are you seriously suggesting DLee as a leadoff hitter? You might want to lay off the meth. I like the lineup posted by the thread starter, except I would flip Theriot and Murton.

 

DLee's stats this year are absolutely perfect for a leadoff hitter.