Shake up the lineup?

[Lefty]

If Pie sticks, and he represents a defensive upgrade in the important "middle," might it be time to start Theriot at SS and save Izturis for spot duty? The Cubs offense at short this year R-nez-esque.

[CubColtPacer]

Maybe so, but it's pretty obvious that the Cubs don't think very much of Theriot at SS at all. He isn't exactly great defensively in the OF, but he has spent a decent amount of time in both LF and RF, along with 3B and 2B. Even with Izturis and Cedeno playing terribly offensively and being double switched out several times, and with Theriot coming in to every single game, Theriot still hasn't logged an inning at SS the entire season. That tells you that he's not even likely an option there for anything but an emergency situation.

[biittner77]

It seems like Theriot at 2nd with DeRosa at SS is a more likely scenario. That being said I doubt they consider that a long term solution.

[NomarSammy]

I think you want to be careful when you are talking about shortstop. I agree Izzy has been less than stellar so far, but I would hang with him. Let's not forget the DP he started with the bases loaded last night--who knows how many runs that saved. I just think with the line-up we have right now it is more than justified to try and keep SS a defensive--oriented position

[Yestheydo]

That's right; they love the guy so we're stuck with him.

[Banedon]

I think you want to be careful when you are talking about shortstop. I agree Izzy has been less than stellar so far, but I would hang with him. Let's not forget the DP he started with the bases loaded last night--who knows how many runs that saved. I just think with the line-up we have right now it is more than justified to try and keep SS a defensive--oriented position

 

So Izzy saved the game from being a 4 run loss, and it was only a 2 run loss instead? Well yippy skippy.

 

How about we get a guy that maybe doesn't make that play, but puts up 3RBI to make up for it instead? I'll take offensive production over a couple of snazzy plays thanks.

[YearofDaCubs]

I think you want to be careful when you are talking about shortstop. I agree Izzy has been less than stellar so far, but I would hang with him. Let's not forget the DP he started with the bases loaded last night--who knows how many runs that saved. I just think with the line-up we have right now it is more than justified to try and keep SS a defensive--oriented position

Let's not forget that throw that probably cost us the game either. I'm not a fan of his at all and I'd rather see other options over him.

[TheDude]

I think you want to be careful when you are talking about shortstop. I agree Izzy has been less than stellar so far, but I would hang with him. Let's not forget the DP he started with the bases loaded last night--who knows how many runs that saved. I just think with the line-up we have right now it is more than justified to try and keep SS a defensive--oriented position

 

Izturis is the reason the Cubs lost the game last night. Sure the double-play saved runs, but it his was lazy fielding that allowed Diaz to be called safe in the critical inning that the Braves took back the lead.

 

Had Izturis not taken his sweet time on that play, it would have been the third out, Cubs 6-5. The Braves scored 3 runs after Izturis blew the third out.

[NomarSammy]

Well, who is that guy going to be..................... By your logic Theriot had two chances to produce runs and he came up with nothing last night--so is he your guy???. I agree we want clutch hitting and good defense, but tha game is not easy to play and it is hard to get everything you want on a team so you have to try and maintain balence on both offense and defense

[Banedon]

Well, who is that guy going to be..................... By your logic Theriot had two chances to produce runs and he came up with nothing last night--so is he your guy???. I agree we want clutch hitting and good defense, but tha game is not easy to play and it is hard to get everything you want on a team so you have to try and maintain balence on both offense and defense

 

Well if we're using one game to judge players like Theriot, I choose the 3 error game to judge Izturis.

[YearofDaCubs]

Well, who is that guy going to be..................... By your logic Theriot had two chances to produce runs and he came up with nothing last night--so is he your guy???. I agree we want clutch hitting and good defense, but tha game is not easy to play and it is hard to get everything you want on a team so you have to try and maintain balence on both offense and defense

It's worth a shot starting Theriot at SS. He has experience there in the minors. Izturis hasn't been exactly great at his position. He has a weak arm and it's showing.

[Abe Frohman]

I don't think the fact that Theriot hasn't been given a shot at SS says anything other than the Cubs are content with Izturis overall. Cesar is going to make good plays - but you have to ask yourself if the team would be better overall with Theriot at SS.

 

Who knows? I'd like to find out, though. Personally, I think this team has been flat at the top of the order with Soriano leading off and Theriot, Jones, and Murton bouncing around in the 2 spot. I think it is proven so far that the production is better with Theriot batting 2nd - so why change that?

 

We have seen Soriano hitting with 0-2, 1-2 counts in the leadoff spot all year. He isn't swinging the bat yet. I think it is time to recognize that Soriano is not going to be on base very often, and that means we can't expect many RBI opportunities for our very solid 3 & 4 hitters.

 

Stop screwing around and put guys in the 1 & 2 holes who understand plate discipline and how to situationally hit. Soriano belongs in a run producing role, like #5 in the order.

 

SS Theriot

RF Murton

1B Lee

3B Ramirez

LF Floyd

2B Soriano

CA Barrett

CF Pie

 

or

 

CF Pie

SS Theriot

1B Lee

3B Ramirez

LF Floyd

2B Soriano

CA Barrett

RF Murton

[anabiono]

right well...

 

the cubs are 5-9 right now

 

yippee...it is early in the season...i know this probably won't happen, but i hope lou proves me wrong...

 

since it is early in the season, why not mess with everything for a few games and see what works best...put the riot in at SS...when soriano comes back...keep pie, if only for a trial period, and then have soriano bat in either the 3, 4, or 5 hole...why the hell not?

 

just a few games...might as well try it while the season is young

 

please lou...

[abuck1220]

Well, who is that guy going to be..................... By your logic Theriot had two chances to produce runs and he came up with nothing last night--so is he your guy???. I agree we want clutch hitting and good defense, but tha game is not easy to play and it is hard to get everything you want on a team so you have to try and maintain balence on both offense and defense

 

who are you agreeing with? personally, i don't give two craps about clutch hitting, and i only care slightly more about defense.

[ToupeeOnFire]

Just going by personal observation, I see nothing that suggests Izturis is a great (or even good) defensive shortstop. Average, maybe. If I were to compare him to Cub SS's of recent vintage (and what a sorry lot that is), I would definitely say that he is not as good as Neifi or AGonz was. Now he's only played 33 games at short for the Cubs and I certainly haven't seen all of them -- the defensive metrics might tell a different story -- but I am just not seeing it. He may have been an ace fielder before getting Tommy John, but for a guy who is supposed to knock in runs with his glove (ha!), he's not even close to being as good as advertised.

 

Which leaves you with what exactly, his bat?

 

Just a horrible trade by Jim Hendry that looks every bit as bad in retrospect as it did at the time he made it.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Well, who is that guy going to be..................... By your logic Theriot had two chances to produce runs and he came up with nothing last night--so is he your guy???. I agree we want clutch hitting and good defense, but tha game is not easy to play and it is hard to get everything you want on a team so you have to try and maintain balence on both offense and defense

 

who are you agreeing with? personally, i don't give two craps about clutch hitting, and i only care slightly more about defense.

 

What about scrap and grit and heart and fire and intensity?

[CubinNY]

Well, who is that guy going to be..................... By your logic Theriot had two chances to produce runs and he came up with nothing last night--so is he your guy???. I agree we want clutch hitting and good defense, but tha game is not easy to play and it is hard to get everything you want on a team so you have to try and maintain balence on both offense and defense

 

who are you agreeing with? personally, i don't give two craps about clutch hitting, and i only care slightly more about defense.

 

What about scrap and grit and heart and fire and intensity?

Scrap = .75 crap

Grit = .5 crap

Fire and intesity = .25 crap each

 

All told, less than two craps.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Well, who is that guy going to be..................... By your logic Theriot had two chances to produce runs and he came up with nothing last night--so is he your guy???. I agree we want clutch hitting and good defense, but tha game is not easy to play and it is hard to get everything you want on a team so you have to try and maintain balence on both offense and defense

 

who are you agreeing with? personally, i don't give two craps about clutch hitting, and i only care slightly more about defense.

 

What about scrap and grit and heart and fire and intensity?

Scrap = .75 crap

Grit = .5 crap

Fire and intesity = .25 crap each

 

All told, less than two craps.

 

Hmm, I though BP had fire and intensity rated a little higher.

[rynefan]

I'm used to the Cubs sucking, and I'm used to waiting til next year. What I'm not used to is looking at my calendar and seeing that it's only APRIL. That stinks. Can't they wait til June or July and at least giving me a few months of false notions?

[Lukin]

It's worth a shot starting Theriot at SS. He has experience there in the minors. Izturis hasn't been exactly great at his position. He has a weak arm and it's showing.

 

Introducing another arm angle to Theriot at this point in absolutely the wrong thing to do. Theriot will never be a long term answer at SS. He could be at 2nd. He should starting every day at 2nd.

 

Izturis is the best defensive infielder on this team. He is twice the infielder that AGon or Neifi were. He has also had some nice at bats. He wasnt crisp on a play and you all freak out? His arm looks fine to me, and he has made some great plays. He doesnt strike out, and he has shown he can move runners. Izzy's O is more then passable in the 8th slot of a powerful lineup.

 

Dero is the guy that should be relegated to spot duty or flat out moved. I have no idea why we picked him up in the first place. I had a feeling we were getting Blausered. We have seen 10% of his career HRs in 2% of his career ABs. I doubt that trend continues. He has had some terrible ABs, and booted an easy play at the duece.

 

Izzy isnt going to bring much in the batters box, other then hopefully hit patiently, not K, and move runners. In this lineup, he shouldnt have to do anything more. We have a lot of bats.

 

If we move Theriot to SS, everything he does offensively is marginalized by weak defense and him not learning a position. Im hoping for a lot more out of RT then Freel Redux. Moving him around is not helping his development. Im looking for him to grow into an Utley type and be a big part of this franchise's success.

[Banedon]

It's worth a shot starting Theriot at SS. He has experience there in the minors. Izturis hasn't been exactly great at his position. He has a weak arm and it's showing.

 

Introducing another arm angle to Theriot at this point in absolutely the wrong thing to do. Theriot will never be a long term answer at SS. He could be at 2nd. He should starting every day at 2nd.

 

Izturis is the best defensive infielder on this team. He is twice the infielder that AGon or Neifi were. He has also had some nice at bats. He wasnt crisp on a play and you all freak out? His arm looks fine to me, and he has made some great plays. He doesnt strike out, and he has shown he can move runners. Izzy's O is more then passable in the 8th slot of a powerful lineup.

 

Dero is the guy that should be relegated to spot duty or flat out moved. I have no idea why we picked him up in the first place. I had a feeling we were getting Blausered. We have seen 10% of his career HRs in 2% of his career ABs. I doubt that trend continues. He has had some terrible ABs, and booted an easy play at the duece.

 

Izzy isnt going to bring much in the batters box, other then hopefully hit patiently, not K, and move runners. In this lineup, he shouldnt have to do anything more. We have a lot of bats.

 

If we move Theriot to SS, everything he does offensively is marginalized by weak defense and him not learning a position. Im hoping for a lot more out of RT then Freel Redux. Moving him around is not helping his development. Im looking for him to grow into an Utley type and be a big part of this franchise's success.

 

Welcom to the forum!

[Lefty]

It's worth a shot starting Theriot at SS. He has experience there in the minors. Izturis hasn't been exactly great at his position. He has a weak arm and it's showing.

 

I'm looking for him to grow into an Utley type and be a big part of this franchise's success.

 

You've got to be kidding. Theriot has no chance, zero, of being Chase Utley. We'd be lucky if he was Freel and that's a longshot too. But welcome to the forum.

[Lukin]

You've got to be kidding. Theriot has no chance, zero, of being Chase Utley. We'd be lucky if he was Freel and that's a longshot too. But welcome to the forum.

 

He wont hit 30 bombs. Maybe if Utley and Aaron Hill had a baby.

[YearofDaCubs]

It's worth a shot starting Theriot at SS. He has experience there in the minors. Izturis hasn't been exactly great at his position. He has a weak arm and it's showing.

 

Introducing another arm angle to Theriot at this point in absolutely the wrong thing to do. Theriot will never be a long term answer at SS. He could be at 2nd. He should starting every day at 2nd.

 

Izturis is the best defensive infielder on this team. He is twice the infielder that AGon or Neifi were. He has also had some nice at bats. He wasnt crisp on a play and you all freak out? His arm looks fine to me, and he has made some great plays. He doesnt strike out, and he has shown he can move runners. Izzy's O is more then passable in the 8th slot of a powerful lineup.

 

Dero is the guy that should be relegated to spot duty or flat out moved. I have no idea why we picked him up in the first place. I had a feeling we were getting Blausered. We have seen 10% of his career HRs in 2% of his career ABs. I doubt that trend continues. He has had some terrible ABs, and booted an easy play at the duece.

 

Izzy isnt going to bring much in the batters box, other then hopefully hit patiently, not K, and move runners. In this lineup, he shouldnt have to do anything more. We have a lot of bats.

 

If we move Theriot to SS, everything he does offensively is marginalized by weak defense and him not learning a position. Im hoping for a lot more out of RT then Freel Redux. Moving him around is not helping his development. Im looking for him to grow into an Utley type and be a big part of this franchise's success.

What new arm angle? Theriot played SS in the minors, it wouldn't be a new position for him. You are entitled to your opinion but what I've seen of Izturis is not a top defenseman. You add his sub-par offense and you have an overpaid mediocre player if that.

[seanimal]

Izturis is the best defensive infielder on this team.

 

Forget about Derek Lee? How about Aramis? He's looked better out there than Izzy. What Izturis once was and what he is now are two very different things

 

He is twice the infielder that AGon or Neifi were.

 

Uhh, is this based on stats, cause in 2003 they were pretty much the same player in the field, with a slight edge going to Gonzales. More so, if you're comparing Izturis now to Gonz then, then you've got it backwards.

 

Welcome to the board!