The number 2 spot

[Banedon]

The Trib has a story about the number 2 hitters not helping Soriano out, because he's getting no protection in the lineup, even though 3-4-5 are hitting. Why not try bumping Soriano back to number 2 in the lineup and let someone like Murton hit leadoff? I know I know, he's not fast. But hitting in front of all those hitters, he should see pitches to hit, and get back to his selective at bats that he's been missing earlier in the season. It would give Soriano better pitches to see, and really solidify the top of the order IMO.

 

Flame on.

[CubColtPacer]

2 things:

1) Shouldn't Murton see plenty of pitches to hit in front of Lee and Ramirez anyway when he's in the 2 spot?

2)I'm not sure about making Soriano angry this early in the season, especially when we may have to ask him to switch positions later in the season.

[Mephistopheles]

hahaha mainstream media and protection. hilarious.

[CubinNY]

The Trib has a story about the number 2 hitters not helping Soriano out, because he's getting no protection in the lineup, even though 3-4-5 are hitting. Why not try bumping Soriano back to number 2 in the lineup and let someone like Murton hit leadoff? I know I know, he's not fast. But hitting in front of all those hitters, he should see pitches to hit, and get back to his selective at bats that he's been missing earlier in the season. It would give Soriano better pitches to see, and really solidify the top of the order IMO.

 

Flame on.

 

If Soriano isn't seeing any pitches then the manager should have a hart to hart about swining at junk. That's the problem.

[Banedon]

2 things:

1) Shouldn't Murton see plenty of pitches to hit in front of Lee and Ramirez anyway when he's in the 2 spot?

2)I'm not sure about making Soriano angry this early in the season, especially when we may have to ask him to switch positions later in the season.

 

1) No question. But he hasn't had a lot of at bats to do that, and I'm not really suggesting this as a way to get Murton on track, but instead as a way to get Soriano on track. This just happens to help Soriano while not hurting Murton.

2) It wouldn't hurt to mention it to Soriano though. He might welcome a change given how he's started.

[Tracer Bullet]

Bruce also has an article about the OBP problem we're having in the 1/2 spots. I like the idea of Murton/Soriano in that order, but I don't see Lou approaching Soriano about it and as long as he thinks we need more lefties in the lineup, Murton's not going to be in there anyway.

[jersey cubs fan]

I think it's funny that Sullivan is more or less defending Soriano by blaming others for his bad start. As usual, our man Bruce has a more even handed view of the subject.

 

Just as in years past, big hitters Derrek Lee and Aramis Ramirez are hitting. It’s just that the top two guys in the order have had trouble getting on base ahead of the big boppers.

 

Piniella said Wednesday he didn’t believe leadoff man Alfonso Soriano was pressing to please his new teammates or the fans. However, Piniella added that Soriano and whoever the No. 2 man is will have to start picking it up.

 

Soriano is batting .200 with no homers and an on-base percentage of just .243. Piniella has used Matt Murton, Jacque Jones, Cesar Izturis and Ryan Theriot as his No. 2 hitters.

 

Murton figures to be the Cubs’ best OBP guy in the second spot, but Piniella has put Jones there the last two games (both losses to Houston) because Cliff Floyd has played left field in both of those games. Jones and Floyd are left-handed hitters, while Murton bats right-handed.

 

Jones has been an interesting choice to bat second. He has decent power, as his 27 homers of last year attest. However, his lifetime OBP is only .328, and he has logged more than 100 strikeouts in each of the last five seasons and six of seven.

 

 

If Piniella is going to keep benching Murton, and they are looking to get more OBP out of the 2 spot while seperating Floyd and Jones, why not put Lee in the 2 spot and Floyd in the 3. Drop Jones back to 5th where his only asset (sometimes decent SLG) can have it's greatest advantage.

[CoolHandLuke]

How about putting Soriano where he belongs?

 

Murton

Barrett/DeRosa

Lee

Ramirez

Soriano

Jones

DeRosa Barrett

Izturis

[Banedon]

How about putting Soriano where he belongs?

 

Murton

Barrett/DeRosa

Lee

Ramirez

Soriano

Jones

DeRosa Barrett

Izturis

 

If you don't want Soriano in the top 2 spots, wouldn't this make more sense?

 

Murton

Barrett/Derosa

Soriano

Lee

Ramirez

Jones

Derosa/Barrett

Izturis

 

Don't you want Soriano's speed in front of Lee, Ramirez and Jones?

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Did any of them bother to notice that Murton has a 375 OBP while in the 2nd spot yet Jones has spent twice as much time there?

[jersey cubs fan]

If you don't want Soriano in the top 2 spots, wouldn't this make more sense?

 

Murton

Barrett/Derosa

Soriano

Lee

Ramirez

Jones

Derosa/Barrett

Izturis

 

Don't you want Soriano's speed in front of Lee, Ramirez and Jones?

 

No. Soriano's speed isn't going to make much of a difference with power guys behind him. The speed could help him score with the lesser hitters behind him.

 

Lee and Ramirez are the best hitters on the team, they should be 3-4 at least, so they can bat in the first.

[CoolHandLuke]

How about putting Soriano where he belongs?

 

Murton

Barrett/DeRosa

Lee

Ramirez

Soriano

Jones

DeRosa Barrett

Izturis

 

If you don't want Soriano in the top 2 spots, wouldn't this make more sense?

 

Murton

Barrett/Derosa

Soriano

Lee

Ramirez

Jones

Derosa/Barrett

Izturis

 

Don't you want Soriano's speed in front of Lee, Ramirez and Jones?

 

No, If I was in charge steals would be quite rare. I want Lee and Ramirez, the two best hitters getting on base in front of Soriano's extra base hits.

 

I might even do something like this:

 

Murton

Lee

Ramirez

Soriano

Jones

Barrett

DeRosa

Izturis

[CoolHandLuke]

Did any of them bother to notice that Murton has a 375 OBP while in the 2nd spot yet Jones has spent twice as much time there?

 

7 AT BATS!

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Did any of them bother to notice that Murton has a 375 OBP while in the 2nd spot yet Jones has spent twice as much time there?

 

7 AT BATS!

 

And oddly enough, right around what can be expected of him over the course of the entire season.

[TheDude]

At this point in the season, it's not worth over-analyzing. All it takes is for Soriano to put up back-to-back games of 3-for-4 in the next two games, and he's suddenly a .300+ hitter with an OBP over .340.

 

If I were playing armchair manager, I wouldn't consider any lineup shuffle with Soriano unless he's still hitting .200 with a .243 OBP in June.

 

Murton will hit 2nd in the lineup. Maybe not everyday, but he'll be there.

[jersey cubs fan]

If I were playing armchair manager, I wouldn't consider any lineup shuffle with Soriano unless he's still hitting .200 with a .243 OBP in June.

 

I think that's a pretty extreme case of patience there. This season will probably be lost if that lasts into June. I can see waiting out April, but all of May as well? That's 1/3rd of the season right there, well over 200 PA and plenty of time to draw some conclusions.

[TheDude]

If I were playing armchair manager, I wouldn't consider any lineup shuffle with Soriano unless he's still hitting .200 with a .243 OBP in June.

 

I think that's a pretty extreme case of patience there. This season will probably be lost if that lasts into June. I can see waiting out April, but all of May as well? That's 1/3rd of the season right there, well over 200 PA and plenty of time to draw some conclusions.

 

It's not extreme at all. You have to look no further than Ramirez last year, who didn't really start hitting until July.

 

I'm pretty sure there's about a 0% chance Soriano is hitting .200 still in June, which is the only point that matters.

[jersey cubs fan]

If I were playing armchair manager, I wouldn't consider any lineup shuffle with Soriano unless he's still hitting .200 with a .243 OBP in June.

 

I think that's a pretty extreme case of patience there. This season will probably be lost if that lasts into June. I can see waiting out April, but all of May as well? That's 1/3rd of the season right there, well over 200 PA and plenty of time to draw some conclusions.

 

It's not extreme at all. You have to look no further than Ramirez last year, who didn't really start hitting until July.

 

I'm pretty sure there's about a 0% chance Soriano is hitting .200 still in June, which is the only point that matters.

 

Ramirez routinely produced. Soriano routinely puts up weak OBP numbers. There's quite a difference. If he hasn't improved significantly by sometime in May, it's a safe assumption we can rule 2006 a fluke, as far as Soriano putting up decent OBP numbers. We're not talking about benching the guy, we're talking about not relying on him as the leadoff hitter getting on in front of Ramirez and Lee.

[KingCubsFan]

Jacque's OBP against RHP last year: .358

2005: .348

 

I don't really have a problem with him hitting 2nd when Floyd is playing. And it seems like Gerald Perry has had the biggest effect on him out of all the players in terms of being patient

[A New Era]

All I know is GET JONES outta the #2 spot! He is not producing at all!! It's fine if Lou wants "2 lefties" in the line-up. But Get Jones outta #2! He just doesn't seem to be getting on base very much and that's more important in the #2 than what jones is (a decent slugger who will hit some HR).

[CubColtPacer]

All I know is GET JONES outta the #2 spot! He is not producing at all!! It's fine if Lou wants "2 lefties" in the line-up. But Get Jones outta #2! He just doesn't seem to be getting on base very much and that's more important in the #2 than what jones is (a decent slugger who will hit some HR).

 

Well, really none of the candidates for the #2 spot have produced so far this season very well. The four people who have played in the #2 slot so far have produced OBP's of .321, .313, .303, and .182 so far. Even if you throw DeRosa in there, that's just .333. I fully expect them to pick it up, but they've all been about the same.

[soapy]

All I know is GET JONES outta the #2 spot! He is not producing at all!! It's fine if Lou wants "2 lefties" in the line-up. But Get Jones outta #2! He just doesn't seem to be getting on base very much and that's more important in the #2 than what jones is (a decent slugger who will hit some HR).

 

Well, really none of the candidates for the #2 spot have produced so far this season very well. The four people who have played in the #2 slot so far have produced OBP's of .321, .313, .303, and .182 so far. Even if you throw DeRosa in there, that's just .333. I fully expect them to pick it up, but they've all been about the same.

:?:

 

Murton has a .375 in the #2 spot.

 

Upon closer review, I guess you probably meant his overall OBP.

[Tracer Bullet]

All I know is GET JONES outta the #2 spot! He is not producing at all!! It's fine if Lou wants "2 lefties" in the line-up. But Get Jones outta #2! He just doesn't seem to be getting on base very much and that's more important in the #2 than what jones is (a decent slugger who will hit some HR).

 

Well, really none of the candidates for the #2 spot have produced so far this season very well. The four people who have played in the #2 slot so far have produced OBP's of .321, .313, .303, and .182 so far. Even if you throw DeRosa in there, that's just .333. I fully expect them to pick it up, but they've all been about the same.

:?:

 

Murton has a .375 in the #2 spot.

 

Upon closer review, I guess you probably meant his overall OBP.

 

I haven't seen his pitches/PA numbers, but he sure seems more patient in the 2-hole. He probably also gets better pitches to hit b/c they're not going to pitch around a guy who scouts have to know is generally patient with Lee & ARam behind him.

[Soul]

Eventually someone needs to come to their senses and get Soriano out of the leadoff spot. Come on, Lou. This guy isn't a leadoff hitter, it's such a waste.

[CubColtPacer]

All I know is GET JONES outta the #2 spot! He is not producing at all!! It's fine if Lou wants "2 lefties" in the line-up. But Get Jones outta #2! He just doesn't seem to be getting on base very much and that's more important in the #2 than what jones is (a decent slugger who will hit some HR).

 

Well, really none of the candidates for the #2 spot have produced so far this season very well. The four people who have played in the #2 slot so far have produced OBP's of .321, .313, .303, and .182 so far. Even if you throw DeRosa in there, that's just .333. I fully expect them to pick it up, but they've all been about the same.

:?:

 

Murton has a .375 in the #2 spot.

 

Upon closer review, I guess you probably meant his overall OBP.

 

I haven't seen his pitches/PA numbers, but he sure seems more patient in the 2-hole. He probably also gets better pitches to hit b/c they're not going to pitch around a guy who scouts have to know is generally patient with Lee & ARam behind him.

 

My impressions were the opposite, but that's mostly seeing how much he struggled on Opening Day swinging at everything and how much better he looked on Saturday when he was in the 6 slot. It's only been 2 games for both of those, so there's not really enough evidence for an indicator either way.