Miller will be skipped

[USSoccer]

part of the developmental process is starting in the majors leagues.

 

Yes, but no one said it can't be after a month or so of pitching out of the pen and then some spot starts to stretch out. This would allow a pitcher to adjust to the hitting at this level while working closely with the pitching coach. Then when it looks like he's got it, you begin to spot start him to see where he is and stretch out his arm. It's not like I'm suggesting leaving him in the pen for two or three seasons, but he's struggled on this level before and if he's going to develop, in my opinion, it's because someone is working with him and the best way to do that is out of the pen for now.

 

As far as the fifth starter, I'm not in love with Miller. I'd like him to get 4-5 starts to see where he is, but if he's not there then release him or package him in a trade for what you can get. As long as we can get a decent fifth starter in return for him + not to high prospect, it would be good for the rotation, and it would allow for Guzman to be coached.

 

-How is he going to get used to the hitting at the major league level when he's never pitching against it?

 

-Why would you give a bad pitcher 4-5 starts? We're wasting games with that mentality.

[Derwood]

this presumption that Guzman will be any better is not grounded in anything tangible. "Upside" doesn't mean jack when it comes to actually getting guys out on game day. Change for the sake of change (after ONE START) seems like a tad bit of overreaction to me

[jersey cubs fan]

part of the developmental process is starting in the majors leagues.

 

Yes, but no one said it can't be after a month or so of pitching out of the pen and then some spot starts to stretch out. This would allow a pitcher to adjust to the hitting at this level while working closely with the pitching coach. Then when it looks like he's got it, you

 

Nobody said you can't put him right into the rotation. Other teams do that all the time. Guzman has already faced major league hitters, about 60 innings worth. There's no reason to arbitrarily hold him back because you fear exposing him to starting. You should start your 5 best starters, and Guzman is easily in that group for the Cubs.

[C.C.]

part of the developmental process is starting in the majors leagues.

 

I agree, but then again look how the Twins developed Santana. Started him in the Pen, and gradually moved him into the staters role. I like Guzman in the long man right now. No reasons not to trust Lou and his coaches right now.

[jersey cubs fan]

this presumption that Guzman will be any better is not grounded in anything tangible. "Upside" doesn't mean jack when it comes to actually getting guys out on game day. Change for the sake of change (after ONE START) seems like a tad bit of overreaction to me

 

He should have had the job in the first place. It's not change for the sake of change. It's change for the sake of righting a wrong. Miller is unqualified for the job.

[C.C.]

part of the developmental process is starting in the majors leagues.

 

Yes, but no one said it can't be after a month or so of pitching out of the pen and then some spot starts to stretch out. This would allow a pitcher to adjust to the hitting at this level while working closely with the pitching coach. Then when it looks like he's got it, you

 

Nobody said you can't put him right into the rotation. Other teams do that all the time. Guzman has already faced major league hitters, about 60 innings worth. There's no reason to arbitrarily hold him back because you fear exposing him to starting. You should start your 5 best starters, and Guzman is easily in that group for the Cubs.

 

I wouldn't say easily. What has Guzman done that he easily should be in the starting 5?

[USSoccer]

part of the developmental process is starting in the majors leagues.

 

I agree, but then again look how the Twins developed Santana. Started him in the Pen, and gradually moved him into the staters role. I like Guzman in the long man right now. No reasons not to trust Lou and his coaches right now.

 

Why would you keep the more talented pitcher in the role that keeps him from pitching, and have the inferioir pitcher affecting every 5th game?

[jersey cubs fan]

part of the developmental process is starting in the majors leagues.

 

I agree, but then again look how the Twins developed Santana. Started him in the Pen, and gradually moved him into the staters role. I like Guzman in the long man right now. No reasons not to trust Lou and his coaches right now.

 

There's a bunch of examples on both sides. Johan was 21 when he came up to the majors. And he had about 340 pro innings by then. By 25 he was a regular starter. Guzman is already 25 and has over 500 pro innings. They are at different stages of the development process.

[C.C.]

part of the developmental process is starting in the majors leagues.

 

I agree, but then again look how the Twins developed Santana. Started him in the Pen, and gradually moved him into the staters role. I like Guzman in the long man right now. No reasons not to trust Lou and his coaches right now.

 

Why would you keep the more talented pitcher in the role that keeps him from pitching, and have the inferioir pitcher affecting every 5th game?

 

He may have talent, but he hasn't shown that he can get major league hitters out on a consistent basis. Perhaps Larry and Lou are working with him on putting hitters away more often. Doesn't he have to step it up and earn that number 5 spot?

Edited April 10, 2007 by C.C.

[jersey cubs fan]

part of the developmental process is starting in the majors leagues.

 

Yes, but no one said it can't be after a month or so of pitching out of the pen and then some spot starts to stretch out. This would allow a pitcher to adjust to the hitting at this level while working closely with the pitching coach. Then when it looks like he's got it, you

 

Nobody said you can't put him right into the rotation. Other teams do that all the time. Guzman has already faced major league hitters, about 60 innings worth. There's no reason to arbitrarily hold him back because you fear exposing him to starting. You should start your 5 best starters, and Guzman is easily in that group for the Cubs.

 

I wouldn't say easily. What has Guzman done that he easily should be in the starting 5?

 

Not be named Wade Miller or Jason Marquis.

[jersey cubs fan]

He may have talent, but he hasn't shown that he can get major league hitters out on a consistent basis.

 

Neither has Miller. At least with Guzman there's a reasonable expectation that he will learn.

[USSoccer]

part of the developmental process is starting in the majors leagues.

 

I agree, but then again look how the Twins developed Santana. Started him in the Pen, and gradually moved him into the staters role. I like Guzman in the long man right now. No reasons not to trust Lou and his coaches right now.

 

Why would you keep the more talented pitcher in the role that keeps him from pitching, and have the inferioir pitcher affecting every 5th game?

 

He may have talent, but he hasn't shown that he can get major league hitters out on a consistent basis. Perhaps Larry and Lou are working with him on putting hitters away more often. Doesn't he have to step it up and earn that number 5 spot?

 

And what did Wade Miller do to "earn" the #5 spot? Doesn't he have to show he can get ML hitters out on a consistent basis?

[jersey cubs fan]

Doesn't he have to step it up and earn that number 5 spot?

 

Miller didn't have to.

[VVMattVV]

The one start just reinforces what many of us have been saying since spring training, its not what we're basing our opinions on. Even if Miller turned in a decent outing I'd still want him out, he doesn't look anything like he used to.

[NCCubFan]

And oh by the way, I think his next healthy season will be his first one.

Not true. He was healthy last year.

[C.C.]

part of the developmental process is starting in the majors leagues.

 

I agree, but then again look how the Twins developed Santana. Started him in the Pen, and gradually moved him into the staters role. I like Guzman in the long man right now. No reasons not to trust Lou and his coaches right now.

 

Why would you keep the more talented pitcher in the role that keeps him from pitching, and have the inferioir pitcher affecting every 5th game?

 

He may have talent, but he hasn't shown that he can get major league hitters out on a consistent basis. Perhaps Larry and Lou are working with him on putting hitters away more often. Doesn't he have to step it up and earn that number 5 spot?

 

And what did Wade Miller do to "earn" the #5 spot? Doesn't he have to show he can get ML hitters out on a consistent basis?

 

Wade Miller out-pitched him in ST. If Gooz was the better pitcher, he would've taking that number 5 spot.

[C.C.]

Doesn't he have to step it up and earn that number 5 spot?

 

Miller didn't have to.

 

Take a look at his Sprint Stats.

[E.J.]

part of the developmental process is starting in the majors leagues.

 

I agree, but then again look how the Twins developed Santana. Started him in the Pen, and gradually moved him into the staters role. I like Guzman in the long man right now. No reasons not to trust Lou and his coaches right now.

 

Why would you keep the more talented pitcher in the role that keeps him from pitching, and have the inferioir pitcher affecting every 5th game?

 

He may have talent, but he hasn't shown that he can get major league hitters out on a consistent basis. Perhaps Larry and Lou are working with him on putting hitters away more often. Doesn't he have to step it up and earn that number 5 spot?

 

And what did Wade Miller do to "earn" the #5 spot? Doesn't he have to show he can get ML hitters out on a consistent basis?

 

Wade Miller out-pitched him in ST. If Gooz was the better pitcher, he would've taking that number 5 spot.

 

Once again, Miller threw 20 innings and Gooz threw 18 innings in spring training. Huge sample size there.

[USSoccer]

part of the developmental process is starting in the majors leagues.

 

I agree, but then again look how the Twins developed Santana. Started him in the Pen, and gradually moved him into the staters role. I like Guzman in the long man right now. No reasons not to trust Lou and his coaches right now.

 

Why would you keep the more talented pitcher in the role that keeps him from pitching, and have the inferioir pitcher affecting every 5th game?

 

He may have talent, but he hasn't shown that he can get major league hitters out on a consistent basis. Perhaps Larry and Lou are working with him on putting hitters away more often. Doesn't he have to step it up and earn that number 5 spot?

 

And what did Wade Miller do to "earn" the #5 spot? Doesn't he have to show he can get ML hitters out on a consistent basis?

 

Wade Miller out-pitched him in ST. If Gooz was the better pitcher, he would've taking that number 5 spot.

 

Basing your roster on spring training performance is a stupid way to construct your ballclub.

 

Seriously, how hard is this to understand? It's not high school basketball tryouts. You go with talent. Spring training is for getting in shape for the season, not auditioning for starting roles. I cannot believe how this is a difficult concept for people to grasp.

[soapy]

You can't say "Marquis may have been good in one start, but he'll suck this year" out of one side of your mouth and "Miller had one bad start, so he's guaranteed to suck" out the other.

I don't think anyone is saying that. I'll say it again, it's not just one start. Miller's past shouldn't be ignored.

[C.C.]

part of the developmental process is starting in the majors leagues.

 

I agree, but then again look how the Twins developed Santana. Started him in the Pen, and gradually moved him into the staters role. I like Guzman in the long man right now. No reasons not to trust Lou and his coaches right now.

 

Why would you keep the more talented pitcher in the role that keeps him from pitching, and have the inferioir pitcher affecting every 5th game?

 

He may have talent, but he hasn't shown that he can get major league hitters out on a consistent basis. Perhaps Larry and Lou are working with him on putting hitters away more often. Doesn't he have to step it up and earn that number 5 spot?

 

And what did Wade Miller do to "earn" the #5 spot? Doesn't he have to show he can get ML hitters out on a consistent basis?

 

Wade Miller out-pitched him in ST. If Gooz was the better pitcher, he would've taking that number 5 spot.

 

Basing your roster on spring training performance is a stupid way to construct your ballclub.

 

Seriously, how hard is this to understand? It's not high school basketball tryouts. You go with talent. Spring training is for getting in shape for the season, not auditioning for starting roles. I cannot believe how this is a difficult concept for people to grasp.

 

Not entirely true. For the kids like Guzman it's a chance to impress as Marshall did last year. Or Rocky Cherry, Theriot, and Cedeno did this year.

[USSoccer]

part of the developmental process is starting in the majors leagues.

 

I agree, but then again look how the Twins developed Santana. Started him in the Pen, and gradually moved him into the staters role. I like Guzman in the long man right now. No reasons not to trust Lou and his coaches right now.

 

Why would you keep the more talented pitcher in the role that keeps him from pitching, and have the inferioir pitcher affecting every 5th game?

 

He may have talent, but he hasn't shown that he can get major league hitters out on a consistent basis. Perhaps Larry and Lou are working with him on putting hitters away more often. Doesn't he have to step it up and earn that number 5 spot?

 

And what did Wade Miller do to "earn" the #5 spot? Doesn't he have to show he can get ML hitters out on a consistent basis?

 

Wade Miller out-pitched him in ST. If Gooz was the better pitcher, he would've taking that number 5 spot.

 

Basing your roster on spring training performance is a stupid way to construct your ballclub.

 

Seriously, how hard is this to understand? It's not high school basketball tryouts. You go with talent. Spring training is for getting in shape for the season, not auditioning for starting roles. I cannot believe how this is a difficult concept for people to grasp.

 

Not entirely true. For the kids like Guzman it's a chance to impress as Marshall did last year. Or Rocky Cherry, Theriot, and Cedeno did this year.

 

That's the kind of mentality that has contributed the the Cubs being a suckfest for 99 years. Relying on the piddling sample size of spring training to build your roster.

[C.C.]

You can't say "Marquis may have been good in one start, but he'll suck this year" out of one side of your mouth and "Miller had one bad start, so he's guaranteed to suck" out the other.

I don't think anyone is saying that. I'll say it again, it's not just one start. Miller's past shouldn't be ignored.

 

Is his past that bad that he couldn't be counted on for a number 5 starter?

[C.C.]

part of the developmental process is starting in the majors leagues.

 

I agree, but then again look how the Twins developed Santana. Started him in the Pen, and gradually moved him into the staters role. I like Guzman in the long man right now. No reasons not to trust Lou and his coaches right now.

 

Why would you keep the more talented pitcher in the role that keeps him from pitching, and have the inferioir pitcher affecting every 5th game?

 

He may have talent, but he hasn't shown that he can get major league hitters out on a consistent basis. Perhaps Larry and Lou are working with him on putting hitters away more often. Doesn't he have to step it up and earn that number 5 spot?

 

And what did Wade Miller do to "earn" the #5 spot? Doesn't he have to show he can get ML hitters out on a consistent basis?

 

Wade Miller out-pitched him in ST. If Gooz was the better pitcher, he would've taking that number 5 spot.

 

Basing your roster on spring training performance is a stupid way to construct your ballclub.

 

Seriously, how hard is this to understand? It's not high school basketball tryouts. You go with talent. Spring training is for getting in shape for the season, not auditioning for starting roles. I cannot believe how this is a difficult concept for people to grasp.

 

Not entirely true. For the kids like Guzman it's a chance to impress as Marshall did last year. Or Rocky Cherry, Theriot, and Cedeno did this year.

 

That's the kind of mentality that has contributed the the Cubs being a suckfest for 99 years. Relying on the piddling sample size of spring training to build your roster.

 

Just about every team has that one breakout performence from a rookie in ST that makes the team. The Cubs are hardly alone in this.

[soapy]

You can't say "Marquis may have been good in one start, but he'll suck this year" out of one side of your mouth and "Miller had one bad start, so he's guaranteed to suck" out the other.

I don't think anyone is saying that. I'll say it again, it's not just one start. Miller's past shouldn't be ignored.

 

Is his past that bad that he couldn't be counted on for a number 5 starter?

IMO (in comparison to Guzman's), yes.