Z CONTRACT: On Hold Due to Trib Sale

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Murton, Gallagher, Patterson and even another for Suzuki now

 

How many times have you brought up nonsense like that? That would be a horrible, horrible deal for the Cubs.

[muntjack]

Murton > Ichiro. We've discussed this before. :-)

[RichHillIsABeast]

Ichiro has a decent OBP and good defense. No power. None. Our offense is going to be fine. If there are offensive holes, they aren't in the OF. They're at SS and 2B.

 

Our problem will probably be pitching, not offense.

[C.C.]

I'm curious to see what news comes out today. Cubs never stop being a soap opera.

[Laura]

Speculation from Sulllivan.

 

Paul Sullivan / The Trib[/b]"]If Zambrano starts as badly as last year, when he didn't win a game until May 11, it might be hard to justify a five-year, $80 million investment. Zambrano says the sale of the Cubs won't delay talks but again deferred to his agent.

[Tracer Bullet]

Trade Zambrano for A-Rod, please. Z can't throw strikes. I'll take the HOF-er at SS and take my chances with a different starting pitcher.

 

I'd love to get ARod for Z under the right circumstances, but saying Zambrano can't throw strikes is absurd.

 

Not really. Z led the majors in walks (115) last season.

 

He was also fourth in the league in strikeouts (a mere six off the leader). Can't get those without throwing strikes.

 

Sure you can. How many guys to you see swing and miss on stuff outside the strike zone? Plenty. Especially with Z.

 

It's all part of the game. His movement is fantastic, but I'd still like to see him hit the zone more frequently.

 

Yeah - I have to agree. Check out the league leaders from last season. Z was 5th in Ks, but, as mentioned above, had 115 walks. In the rest of the top 10, most guys were around 60 walks (Lackey had 72, Santana had 47, but the average was around 60). Z nearly doubled that last year. I love that Z strikes out 200 hitters, but I'd give up some of those Ks if he'd bring his walk total down significantly. I don't know if I'd say he "can't throw strikes" but he certainly doesn't do it as well as other high-K pitchers.

 

link

 

BTW - did Schilling really only walk 28 while striking out 183? If so, that's just insane.

[Sammy Sofa]

Trade Zambrano for A-Rod, please. Z can't throw strikes. I'll take the HOF-er at SS and take my chances with a different starting pitcher.

 

I'd love to get ARod for Z under the right circumstances, but saying Zambrano can't throw strikes is absurd.

 

Not really. Z led the majors in walks (115) last season.

 

He was also fourth in the league in strikeouts (a mere six off the leader). Can't get those without throwing strikes.

 

Sure you can. How many guys to you see swing and miss on stuff outside the strike zone? Plenty. Especially with Z.

 

It's all part of the game. His movement is fantastic, but I'd still like to see him hit the zone more frequently.

 

Yeah - I have to agree. Check out the league leaders from last season. Z was 5th in Ks, but, as mentioned above, had 115 walks. In the rest of the top 10, most guys were around 60 walks (Lackey had 72, Santana had 47, but the average was around 60). Z nearly doubled that last year. I love that Z strikes out 200 hitters, but I'd give up some of those Ks if he'd bring his walk total down significantly. I don't know if I'd say he "can't throw strikes" but he certainly doesn't do it as well as other high-K pitchers.

 

link

 

BTW - did Schilling really only walk 28 while striking out 183? If so, that's just insane.

 

Who is disagreeing that he walks guys too much?

 

He gets the strike outs. If enough the balls aren't technically in the zone, well, he's still throwing strikes in some capacity. The original statement that "he doesn't throw strikes," to me, is an inaccurate oversimplification.

[Elrhino]

This is manna from heaven as far as I'm concerned. The Cubs should not be in a hurry to give any pitcher 5/$80 million. This gives the Cubs the perfect opportunity to sit back for a couple of months and re-evaluate. If Z still wants to play hardball, he can be moved in July.

 

Yeah, that will show him! Just like what we did with Maddux!

 

So the Cubs better off getting into another Kerry Wood situation stuck with a huge contract for a burned out arm for the sake of avoiding another Greg Maddux.

 

Besides, I know Greg Maddux. I've seen Greg Maddux. Zambrano is no Greg Maddux. Greg Maddux was an efficient pitcher who didn't rack up tons of pitches on his arm. (and you didn't have to walk to the mound and make Greg Maddux compose himself everytime a runner got on base. ).

[C.C.]

This is manna from heaven as far as I'm concerned. The Cubs should not be in a hurry to give any pitcher 5/$80 million. This gives the Cubs the perfect opportunity to sit back for a couple of months and re-evaluate. If Z still wants to play hardball, he can be moved in July.

 

Yeah, that will show him! Just like what we did with Maddux!

 

So the Cubs better off getting into another Kerry Wood situation stuck with a huge contract for a burned out arm for the sake of avoiding another Greg Maddux.

 

Besides, I know Greg Maddux. I've seen Greg Maddux. Zambrano is no Greg Maddux. Greg Maddux was an efficient pitcher who didn't rack up tons of pitches on his arm. (and you didn't have to walk to the mound and make Greg Maddux compose himself everytime a runner got on base. ).

 

The only difference is Zambrano never had surgery nor has he ever been hurt. So you can't compare Wood to Z.

[David]

Murton, Gallagher, Patterson and even another for Suzuki now

 

How many times have you brought up nonsense like that? That would be a horrible, horrible deal for the Cubs.

 

+ 1 x infinity

[Tracer Bullet]

Trade Zambrano for A-Rod, please. Z can't throw strikes. I'll take the HOF-er at SS and take my chances with a different starting pitcher.

 

I'd love to get ARod for Z under the right circumstances, but saying Zambrano can't throw strikes is absurd.

 

Not really. Z led the majors in walks (115) last season.

 

He was also fourth in the league in strikeouts (a mere six off the leader). Can't get those without throwing strikes.

 

Sure you can. How many guys to you see swing and miss on stuff outside the strike zone? Plenty. Especially with Z.

 

It's all part of the game. His movement is fantastic, but I'd still like to see him hit the zone more frequently.

 

Yeah - I have to agree. Check out the league leaders from last season. Z was 5th in Ks, but, as mentioned above, had 115 walks. In the rest of the top 10, most guys were around 60 walks (Lackey had 72, Santana had 47, but the average was around 60). Z nearly doubled that last year. I love that Z strikes out 200 hitters, but I'd give up some of those Ks if he'd bring his walk total down significantly. I don't know if I'd say he "can't throw strikes" but he certainly doesn't do it as well as other high-K pitchers.

 

link

 

BTW - did Schilling really only walk 28 while striking out 183? If so, that's just insane.

 

Who is disagreeing that he walks guys too much?

 

He gets the strike outs. If enough the balls aren't technically in the zone, well, he's still throwing strikes in some capacity. The original statement that "he doesn't throw strikes," to me, is an inaccurate oversimplification.

 

Well, the point of the statement "he doesn't throw strikes" - is "he throws too many balls." Given that he lead the league in walks, I don't think that's inaccurate. Yes, he does get a lot of swings and misses at balls out of the zone, but he also gets a lot of bats on the shoulder at balls out of the zone. So he gets a lot of Ks, but gives up way too many free passes to get them. So I think anyone who is arguing against the statement that "he doesn't throw strikes" is effectively arguing that he throws enough strikes, relative to the number of pitches he throws. And I just don't think that's true.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Did you read the comment in the Trib about Zambrano's agent refuses to talk to the Tribune? Could it be that Praver just doesn't like Paul Sullivan?

[E.J.]

Bruce Miles[/url]"]It appears both sides will allow things to “cool down,” as one person put it, regarding the Carlos Zambrano contract situation.

 

The announcement that the Cubs will be sold by the end of the year threw the once-hot negotiations into a delay, but neither side is worried that a deal can’t get done. Zambrano’s agent on Sunday said he and Zambrano were indefinitely extending their opening-day deadline for agreeing on a multiyear deal.

[Wheelimus]

Translation, they've agreed to a deal but can't sign it until given the ok. Nobody has anything to lose by just chilling out and waiting. Zambrano has a deal he's comfortable with waiting, and even if it fell through he just gets his big Free Agency payday. So i'd imagine...

[E.J.]

Translation, they've agreed to a deal but can't sign it until given the ok. Nobody has anything to lose by just chilling out and waiting. Zambrano has a deal he's comfortable with waiting, and even if it fell through he just gets his big Free Agency payday. So i'd imagine...

 

That's kind of the feeling I get as well. Let's hope so anyways.

[Sammy Sofa]

Translation, they've agreed to a deal but can't sign it until given the ok. Nobody has anything to lose by just chilling out and waiting. Zambrano has a deal he's comfortable with waiting, and even if it fell through he just gets his big Free Agency payday. So i'd imagine...

 

I figured as much from the get-go of this news. Z and his agent would have to be huge jerks or just willfully ignorant to toss everything aside because of something this monumental falling on everyone, especially since I have little doubt that they played a huge part in this whole thing not getting done until this point. That's not some ringing endorsement of Hendry, but I also don't get why so many just assume Z and his agent were sitting around just waiting to be signed, wondering why Hendry wasn't calling. Both sides know what they're doing by letting it get to here.

[frostwyrm]

Translation, they've agreed to a deal but can't sign it until given the ok. Nobody has anything to lose by just chilling out and waiting. Zambrano has a deal he's comfortable with waiting, and even if it fell through he just gets his big Free Agency payday. So i'd imagine...

 

What if Z suffers a catastrophic injury before he signs? I really doubt the Trib would still give him 5/80. If I'm Z and the Trib tells me I must wait til mid-season before signing I wouldn't do it. I'd gamble that I could complete the 2nd half without injury and then go to free agency for a much bigger payday than $80M. Simple risk/reward math dictates that the longer this situation drags out the more attractive it will become for Z to take the health risk of playing out the season without a contract. Obviously if Z has made 34 starts and has 1 more to go it would be silly not to risk pitching one game and then filing for free agency. Hard to say where the tipping point would be. Depends on the risk aversion of the individual in question. 20 starts maybe? Then he would just have to gamble on going 15 starts without getting hurt.

[Wheelimus]

I'd think that if he were going to take a five year deal with the Cubs anyway he must really really want to stay with the team.

 

Fact is, he and his agent have stated that the negotiating window has been extended indefinitely. If it were just for a week they would have said a week. So for some reason they've went from really worrying about it a week or two ago to a total "what, me worry?" mindset. SOMETHING has to have gone on to cause that.

 

Nevermind that we probably aren't talking months here. McDonough and Hendry should be able to get things figured out payroll wise in the next few weeks, I'd hope.

 

A good compromise may be to not change his 2007 salary, and tack on any bump he was going to get to the later years. Might hurt us a little when he makes 20 million one season, but it might let the Tribune sign the deal if they're not taking on any additional debt. What do they care about 2008 and beyond, they've already said they'll sell and nobody in their right mind is going to not want Carlos Zambrano.

[C.C.]

I'd think that if he were going to take a five year deal with the Cubs anyway he must really really want to stay with the team.

 

Fact is, he and his agent have stated that the negotiating window has been extended indefinitely. If it were just for a week they would have said a week. So for some reason they've went from really worrying about it a week or two ago to a total "what, me worry?" mindset. SOMETHING has to have gone on to cause that.

 

Nevermind that we probably aren't talking months here. McDonough and Hendry should be able to get things figured out payroll wise in the next few weeks, I'd hope.

 

A good compromise may be to not change his 2007 salary, and tack on any bump he was going to get to the later years. Might hurt us a little when he makes 20 million one season, but it might let the Tribune sign the deal if they're not taking on any additional debt. What do they care about 2008 and beyond, they've already said they'll sell and nobody in their right mind is going to not want Carlos Zambrano.

 

I'm thinking Monday there's going to be a press conference...

[Careless]

BTW - did Schilling really only walk 28 while striking out 183? If so, that's just insane.

A couple of seasons ago he was on a pace through the first half of the season to have more wins than walks, I think

[Lockes Eye Scar]

If you think that's insane... Ben Sheets in 2004 struck out 264 and walked 32

[Brian]

On BBTN Buster Onley said he talked to Z's agent Praver and he said that him and Hendry talk everyday so that's hopefully a good sign.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

My guess is the deal is done and they are awaiting ok from McDonough and the higer ups at Trib to tie up the loose ends.

[C.C.]

"I don't say that the Milwaukee Brewers are nothing, but I think the offense of the Cincinnati Reds (is) better," Zambrano said. "There's no making mistakes when pitching against Cincinnati. When you make a mistake against them, you pay for it. When you make a mistake against Milwaukee, sometimes they miss it and that's good."

 

Cubbie Swagger?

[10man]

"I don't say that the Milwaukee Brewers are nothing, but I think the offense of the Cincinnati Reds (is) better," Zambrano said. "There's no making mistakes when pitching against Cincinnati. When you make a mistake against them, you pay for it. When you make a mistake against Milwaukee, sometimes they miss it and that's good."

Cubbie Swagger?

Contract posturing?