Zell to Purchase Tribune Co., Sell Cubs

[David]

Unless your players were so busy fighting in the clubhouse (ala Bonds vs. Kent) that they had a hard time focusing on baseball.

 

I could've sworn that team went to a World Series. ;)

 

Yes, but look at the fallout the next season with Kent gone. If you had an entire team full of altercations like that it wouldn't be something easily overcome. Or more of the Sammy Sosa boombox things going on. Egos can play a lot in all sports, baseball included.

 

Did it really matter on the field? The next year they won 93 games and won their division.

 

And the Cubs with Alou's crazy antics and Sosa's boombox were a much better team in 2004 than without them in 2005.

[papabear58]

Unless your players were so busy fighting in the clubhouse (ala Bonds vs. Kent) that they had a hard time focusing on baseball.

 

I could've sworn that team went to a World Series. ;)

 

Yes, but look at the fallout the next season with Kent gone. If you had an entire team full of altercations like that it wouldn't be something easily overcome. Or more of the Sammy Sosa boombox things going on. Egos can play a lot in all sports, baseball included.

 

Did it really matter on the field? The next year they won 93 games and won their division.

 

And the Cubs with Alou's crazy antics and Sosa's boombox were a much better team in 2004 than without them in 2005.

 

But look at it on a large scale. We're talking about isolated examples. Image that kind of a fireworks display all year long with huge egos and pouty stars. I don't think there would be the ability to overcome it despite their talent.

[David]

Unless your players were so busy fighting in the clubhouse (ala Bonds vs. Kent) that they had a hard time focusing on baseball.

 

I could've sworn that team went to a World Series. ;)

 

Yes, but look at the fallout the next season with Kent gone. If you had an entire team full of altercations like that it wouldn't be something easily overcome. Or more of the Sammy Sosa boombox things going on. Egos can play a lot in all sports, baseball included.

 

Did it really matter on the field? The next year they won 93 games and won their division.

 

And the Cubs with Alou's crazy antics and Sosa's boombox were a much better team in 2004 than without them in 2005.

 

But look at it on a large scale. We're talking about isolated examples. Image that kind of a fireworks display all year long with huge egos and pouty stars. I don't think there would be the ability to overcome it despite their talent.

 

I understand what you're saying. I'm just not seeing real world evidence to prove your point. Show me a case of chemistry actually trumping talent like you're suggesting. Just one. I'm not even trying to be argumentative, I'd just like to see some evidence.

 

EDIT - Also, you're citing extreme cases of players not getting along, like Bonds/Kent, where they were literally at each other's throats. In most cases, even when teammates don't like one another, they can tolerate each other.

Edited April 4, 2007 by David

[papabear58]

Unless your players were so busy fighting in the clubhouse (ala Bonds vs. Kent) that they had a hard time focusing on baseball.

 

I could've sworn that team went to a World Series. ;)

 

Yes, but look at the fallout the next season with Kent gone. If you had an entire team full of altercations like that it wouldn't be something easily overcome. Or more of the Sammy Sosa boombox things going on. Egos can play a lot in all sports, baseball included.

 

Did it really matter on the field? The next year they won 93 games and won their division.

 

And the Cubs with Alou's crazy antics and Sosa's boombox were a much better team in 2004 than without them in 2005.

 

But look at it on a large scale. We're talking about isolated examples. Image that kind of a fireworks display all year long with huge egos and pouty stars. I don't think there would be the ability to overcome it despite their talent.

 

I understand what you're saying. I'm just not seeing real world evidence to prove your point. Show me a case of chemistry actually trumping talent like you're suggesting. Just one. I'm not even trying to be argumentative, I'd just like to see some evidence.

 

Since my argument is purely speculative and based entirely on opinon, it is impossible to give concrete evidence. It is rather a belief based on what I believe is poor play by teams after large distractions. In speculation I believe that a team with a season long distraction would have to daily overcome all kinds of mental trash and I don't believe it would be doable. It's not too far of a stretch to sumise.

[Magnetic Curses]

ah, the ages old debate, chemistry mcdoodoo.

[Magnetic Curses]

Since my argument is purely speculative and based entirely on opinon, it is impossible to give concrete evidence. It is rather a belief based on what I believe is poor play by teams after large distractions. In speculation I believe that a team with a season long distraction would have to daily overcome all kinds of mental trash and I don't believe it would be doable. It's not too far of a stretch to sumise.

 

give us an example of a team performing poorply after large distractions.

 

i think the whole chemistry thing is a myth perpetuated by the movie "major league". people actually appear to have learned what they know about baseball from this movie.

 

i call it the Major League Effect.

[CubinNY]

Unless your players were so busy fighting in the clubhouse (ala Bonds vs. Kent) that they had a hard time focusing on baseball.

 

I could've sworn that team went to a World Series. ;)

 

Yes, but look at the fallout the next season with Kent gone. If you had an entire team full of altercations like that it wouldn't be something easily overcome. Or more of the Sammy Sosa boombox things going on. Egos can play a lot in all sports, baseball included.

 

Did it really matter on the field? The next year they won 93 games and won their division.

 

And the Cubs with Alou's crazy antics and Sosa's boombox were a much better team in 2004 than without them in 2005.

 

But look at it on a large scale. We're talking about isolated examples. Image that kind of a fireworks display all year long with huge egos and pouty stars. I don't think there would be the ability to overcome it despite their talent.

That's just flat out wrong.

 

Baseball is different. I just saw a talk show where Tim McCarver and Rolly Fingers were talking about the A's of the early 70s.

In five seasons from 1971 to 1975 the As won five divisions, three pennants and three WS in a row (1972-1974)

 

Fingers said there were daily fights in the clubhouse. Reggie Jackson and Sal Bando use to have a fight a week. Bill North hated Bando and Jackson. Joe Rudi hated everyone. And everyone hated Catfish Hunter. They had a saying, "25 guys, 25 cabs".

[David]

 

Since my argument is purely speculative and based entirely on opinon, it is impossible to give concrete evidence. It is rather a belief based on what I believe is poor play by teams after large distractions. In speculation I believe that a team with a season long distraction would have to daily overcome all kinds of mental trash and I don't believe it would be doable. It's not too far of a stretch to sumise.

 

Until you actually show me an example of it happening, I consider it a pretty big stretch to surmise that not getting along (even to an extreme) would cause players to hit or pitch less effectively than they normally would. You would think that in 100+ years of MLB history, you could come up with at least a few examples of the effect that you're suggesting (which, admittedly, a lot of other people also believe in).

[Magnetic Curses]

Unless your players were so busy fighting in the clubhouse (ala Bonds vs. Kent) that they had a hard time focusing on baseball.

 

I could've sworn that team went to a World Series. ;)

 

Yes, but look at the fallout the next season with Kent gone. If you had an entire team full of altercations like that it wouldn't be something easily overcome. Or more of the Sammy Sosa boombox things going on. Egos can play a lot in all sports, baseball included.

 

Did it really matter on the field? The next year they won 93 games and won their division.

 

And the Cubs with Alou's crazy antics and Sosa's boombox were a much better team in 2004 than without them in 2005.

 

But look at it on a large scale. We're talking about isolated examples. Image that kind of a fireworks display all year long with huge egos and pouty stars. I don't think there would be the ability to overcome it despite their talent.

That's just flat out wrong.

 

Baseball is different. I just saw a talk show where Tim McCarver and Rolly Fingers were talking about the A's of the early 70s.

In five seasons from 1971 to 1975 the As won five divisions, three pennants and three WS in a row (1972-1974)

 

Fingers said there were daily fights in the clubhouse. Reggie Jackson and Sal Bando use to have a fight a week. Bill North hated Bando and Jackson. Joe Rudi hated everyone. And everyone hated Catfish Hunter. They had a saying, "25 guys, 25 cabs".

 

are we forgetting the 27 yankees?

[papabear58]

 

Since my argument is purely speculative and based entirely on opinon, it is impossible to give concrete evidence. It is rather a belief based on what I believe is poor play by teams after large distractions. In speculation I believe that a team with a season long distraction would have to daily overcome all kinds of mental trash and I don't believe it would be doable. It's not too far of a stretch to sumise.

 

Until you actually show me an example of it happening, I consider it a pretty big stretch to surmise that not getting along (even to an extreme) would cause players to hit or pitch less effectively than they normally would. You would think that in 100+ years of MLB history, you could come up with at least a few examples of the effect that you're suggesting (which, admittedly, a lot of other people also believe in).

 

Look at Sosa. After the combination of the corked bat, the clubhouse demonor, the feeling of the fans turning on him, the Cubs parting ways with him, the distractions took their toll on his play. Roll that out to a team that is consistantly having infighting and distractions and it can effect a team.

[Magnetic Curses]

 

Since my argument is purely speculative and based entirely on opinon, it is impossible to give concrete evidence. It is rather a belief based on what I believe is poor play by teams after large distractions. In speculation I believe that a team with a season long distraction would have to daily overcome all kinds of mental trash and I don't believe it would be doable. It's not too far of a stretch to sumise.

 

Until you actually show me an example of it happening, I consider it a pretty big stretch to surmise that not getting along (even to an extreme) would cause players to hit or pitch less effectively than they normally would. You would think that in 100+ years of MLB history, you could come up with at least a few examples of the effect that you're suggesting (which, admittedly, a lot of other people also believe in).

 

Look at Sosa. After the combination of the corked bat, the clubhouse demonor, the feeling of the fans turning on him, the Cubs parting ways with him, the distractions took their toll on his play. Roll that out to a team that is consistantly having infighting and distractions and it can effect a team.

 

i think it probably had more to do with being hit in the head by an errant fastball.

 

or it could have something to do with him just getting old.

[papabear58]

 

Since my argument is purely speculative and based entirely on opinon, it is impossible to give concrete evidence. It is rather a belief based on what I believe is poor play by teams after large distractions. In speculation I believe that a team with a season long distraction would have to daily overcome all kinds of mental trash and I don't believe it would be doable. It's not too far of a stretch to sumise.

 

Until you actually show me an example of it happening, I consider it a pretty big stretch to surmise that not getting along (even to an extreme) would cause players to hit or pitch less effectively than they normally would. You would think that in 100+ years of MLB history, you could come up with at least a few examples of the effect that you're suggesting (which, admittedly, a lot of other people also believe in).

 

Look at Sosa. After the combination of the corked bat, the clubhouse demonor, the feeling of the fans turning on him, the Cubs parting ways with him, the distractions took their toll on his play. Roll that out to a team that is consistantly having infighting and distractions and it can effect a team.

 

i think it probably had more to do with being hit in the head by an errant fastball.

 

or it could have something to do with him just getting old.

 

This season will definatly test that theory. He could very well be aweful as some people surmise. Or he could rebound and do well as he's mentally fresh, ready to play, and happy to be playing baseball again. We'll see what happens there. BTW I did take him in the last round of my fantasy draft on the off chance that he does rebound. If not, it's no big loss.

[USSoccer]

Look at Sosa. After the combination of the corked bat, the clubhouse demonor, the feeling of the fans turning on him, the Cubs parting ways with him, the distractions took their toll on his play. Roll that out to a team that is consistantly having infighting and distractions and it can effect a team.

 

i think it probably had more to do with being hit in the head by an errant fastball.

 

or it could have something to do with him just getting old.

 

This season will definatly test that theory. He could very well be aweful as some people surmise. Or he could rebound and do well as he's mentally fresh, ready to play, and happy to be playing baseball again. We'll see what happens there. BTW I did take him in the last round of my fantasy draft on the off chance that he does rebound. If not, it's no big loss.

 

How will this season test anything relative to your point about Sosa succumbing to distractions in 2004?

[papabear58]

Look at Sosa. After the combination of the corked bat, the clubhouse demonor, the feeling of the fans turning on him, the Cubs parting ways with him, the distractions took their toll on his play. Roll that out to a team that is consistantly having infighting and distractions and it can effect a team.

 

i think it probably had more to do with being hit in the head by an errant fastball.

 

or it could have something to do with him just getting old.

 

This season will definatly test that theory. He could very well be aweful as some people surmise. Or he could rebound and do well as he's mentally fresh, ready to play, and happy to be playing baseball again. We'll see what happens there. BTW I did take him in the last round of my fantasy draft on the off chance that he does rebound. If not, it's no big loss.

 

How will this season test anything relative to your point about Sosa succumbing to distractions in 2004?

 

Most of those distractions are gone, or are old news. He seems upbeat, happy, and of positive mind. If he bounces back and has a good season it means that it wasn't nearly as much a physical thing as mental.

[RynoRules]

I have heard in several places that the major issue will be the owners approving whoever comes up with the largest bid. For example, it is believed by some that Reinsdorf so hates Cuban due to their running NBA feud that he might attempt to clock Mark from acquiring the team.

 

But there are other owners who might see it as a good thing to have him as well because he brings competitiveness and a winning Cubs team would be good for all of baseball. Revenues go up for every team when a flagship franchise does well.

 

The same reports indicate that Reinsdorf has the clout to swing many votes.

[USSoccer]

Look at Sosa. After the combination of the corked bat, the clubhouse demonor, the feeling of the fans turning on him, the Cubs parting ways with him, the distractions took their toll on his play. Roll that out to a team that is consistantly having infighting and distractions and it can effect a team.

 

i think it probably had more to do with being hit in the head by an errant fastball.

 

or it could have something to do with him just getting old.

 

This season will definatly test that theory. He could very well be aweful as some people surmise. Or he could rebound and do well as he's mentally fresh, ready to play, and happy to be playing baseball again. We'll see what happens there. BTW I did take him in the last round of my fantasy draft on the off chance that he does rebound. If not, it's no big loss.

 

How will this season test anything relative to your point about Sosa succumbing to distractions in 2004?

 

Most of those distractions are gone, or are old news. He seems upbeat, happy, and of positive mind. If he bounces back and has a good season it means that it wasn't nearly as much a physical thing as mental.

 

Not necessarily. You're making assumptions left and right. There's not a causal relationship that you can point to.

[papabear58]

Look at Sosa. After the combination of the corked bat, the clubhouse demonor, the feeling of the fans turning on him, the Cubs parting ways with him, the distractions took their toll on his play. Roll that out to a team that is consistantly having infighting and distractions and it can effect a team.

 

i think it probably had more to do with being hit in the head by an errant fastball.

 

or it could have something to do with him just getting old.

 

This season will definatly test that theory. He could very well be aweful as some people surmise. Or he could rebound and do well as he's mentally fresh, ready to play, and happy to be playing baseball again. We'll see what happens there. BTW I did take him in the last round of my fantasy draft on the off chance that he does rebound. If not, it's no big loss.

 

How will this season test anything relative to your point about Sosa succumbing to distractions in 2004?

 

Most of those distractions are gone, or are old news. He seems upbeat, happy, and of positive mind. If he bounces back and has a good season it means that it wasn't nearly as much a physical thing as mental.

 

Not necessarily. You're making assumptions left and right. There's not a causal relationship that you can point to.

 

As I said earlier my entire argument is based on opinion and speculation. If you're looking for me to "convert" you to my opinion :) that is neither my intent or desire. I simply have a point of view that people under distraction do not perform their job to the best of their ability and in sports, can be beaten by teams who are focused on the task at hand. Not that talent is 100% irrelevent, but focus can be just a big of a factor IMHO.

[UK1679666180]

 

I don't see that "fantasy baseball" mindset as nearly as much of a cause for concern in baseball as it would be in football or basketball. Baseball isn't really a team game in the way that other team sports are, where, a lot of times, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

 

It's more of a bunch of individual outcomes adding up to an overall team result. One individual's success doesn't take away another's opportunity for success (unless you're worried about RBIs, but that's a whole separate argument), in fact, on offense, for instance, not making an out creates more opportunities for success. It's not like basketball where a selfish player could hurt the team, or football where each player on the field has a specialized role.

 

I think I'm just stating the obvious here, but my point, more or less, is that I don't see the so-called fantasy baseball approach as one that would be all that bad in baseball. You could take a top five player at every position and take no regard to how these players would work together, and you'd likely have the best team in baseball, or close to it.

 

/non-angry rant

 

It wouldn't be a case of spending to get the top 5 at every position (not even the Yankees could do so), it would be a case of putting a greater emphasis of overspending on marginal talent b/c they are the best player remaining.

 

You just can't win by trying to sign the best FAs every year especially at the expense of a productive farm.

[RynoRules]

FYI:

 

Gammons reiterated on Mike & Mike this morning that MLB will not accept any bid put together by Cuban, and that Reinsdorf has much influence in that regard. Also noted that Collangelo would have no such problem, but that he (Gammons) doesn't know where Jerry would get the money.

[C.C.]

FYI:

 

Gammons reiterated on Mike & Mike this morning that MLB will not accept any bid put together by Cuban, and that Reinsdorf has much influence in that regard. Also noted that Collangelo would have no such problem, but that he (Gammons) doesn't know where Jerry would get the money.

 

Well Reinsdorf influence didn't keep Mark away in Basketball?

 

BTW - Another reason I hate the W.Sox.

[CubinNY]

FYI:

 

Gammons reiterated on Mike & Mike this morning that MLB will not accept any bid put together by Cuban, and that Reinsdorf has much influence in that regard. Also noted that Collangelo would have no such problem, but that he (Gammons) doesn't know where Jerry would get the money.

This has anti-trust suit written all over it. I'm not sure if it is worth it to Cuban though.

[RynoRules]

FYI:

 

Gammons reiterated on Mike & Mike this morning that MLB will not accept any bid put together by Cuban, and that Reinsdorf has much influence in that regard. Also noted that Collangelo would have no such problem, but that he (Gammons) doesn't know where Jerry would get the money.

 

Well Reinsdorf influence didn't keep Mark away in Basketball?

 

BTW - Another reason I hate the W.Sox.

 

Apples and oranges according to Gammons.

 

MLB is a very different network of ownership, and for its it worth, he said that Reinsdorf "warned" the NBA but did not fight. He believes Reinsdorf will fight here and that he swings a much heavier stick with his fellow owners in MLB, and Selig in particular. I think Gammons has much credibility in this respect.

Edited April 6, 2007 by RynoRules

[RynoRules]

FYI:

 

Gammons reiterated on Mike & Mike this morning that MLB will not accept any bid put together by Cuban, and that Reinsdorf has much influence in that regard. Also noted that Collangelo would have no such problem, but that he (Gammons) doesn't know where Jerry would get the money.

This has anti-trust suit written all over it. I'm not sure if it is worth it to Cuban though.

 

Not sure about that. I am not very familiar with anti-trust law, but people ding each other in business for personal reasons all the time.

[Banedon]

I could be reading into things here, but I think Cuban's silence on this topic shows that he has some interest. If he didn't have an interest, there wouldn't be any harm in his coming out and saying so.

[RynoRules]

Hey, I hope Gammons is wrong, but he has credibility in my book.