is harvey hurt?

[abuck1220]

i never saw him do anything besides stand behind the batting cage during my time at fitch. on my last day there, flieta walked past him and harvey told him he was "getting close." anybody know what's up?

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Maybe he meant he was getting close to not sucking anymore.

[Balsa]

Maybe he meant he was getting close to not sucking anymore.

Hahhaahahah.

[craig]

Quote: Outfielder Ryan Harvey, who is expected to provide the Smokies power, along with first baseman Brian Dopirak and Fox, missed two weeks with a lingering leg problem.

 

"He started off in our early camp (Feb. 23) and he had a hamstring problem he has had in years' past," Fleita said. "We thought we nipped it early, but he was real tight and we backed him off for two weeks."

 

Fleita expects Harvey to be 100 percent and there is sufficient time for him to break camp with the Smokies.

[ChiefsVoice]

still hurt. I've been here 6 days and haven't seen him anywhere except the weight room and training room. No swings or throws. All indications are that it is the hammy again.

 

I'll post more about everything when I get back home late Tuesday.

[abuck1220]

i saw dope take bp while i was there...he looks like he's really slimmed down.

[Guest]

i saw dope take bp while i was there...he looks like he's really slimmed down.

Last time I saw him take BP was two years ago before he headed to Daytona. I swear he hit more balls over the fence than short of it.

 

Heck, he hit more balls that landed across the street than he hit short of the fence.

 

And that was just to right field.

 

Oh, how I would love to see him recapture that in the games. I've not yet given up on him. Howard took a long time to get his stuff together, too.

[seanhopper]

i saw dope take bp while i was there...he looks like he's really slimmed down.

Last time I saw him take BP was two years ago before he headed to Daytona. I swear he hit more balls over the fence than short of it.

 

Heck, he hit more balls that landed across the street than he hit short of the fence.

 

And that was just to right field.

 

Oh, how I would love to see him recapture that in the games. I've not yet given up on him. Howard took a long time to get his stuff together, too.

 

Were you refering to Ryan Howard? With all due respect (and honestly I respect your knowledge of the Cubs minor league system), Howard never had any down years like Dope has had. Howard always had a good BA and his power was consistent throughout his minor league career. We can only hope Dope makes a comeback this year--especially his power #'s. I just don't see where he fits within the Cubs system once he does establish himself again.

[Balsa]

I would love to see Dope and/or Harvey finally make the successful leap to AAA....but with each passing year it looks less and less realistic. :(

[CubsWin]

i saw dope take bp while i was there...he looks like he's really slimmed down.

Last time I saw him take BP was two years ago before he headed to Daytona. I swear he hit more balls over the fence than short of it.

 

Heck, he hit more balls that landed across the street than he hit short of the fence.

 

And that was just to right field.

 

Oh, how I would love to see him recapture that in the games. I've not yet given up on him. Howard took a long time to get his stuff together, too.

 

Were you refering to Ryan Howard? With all due respect (and honestly I respect your knowledge of the Cubs minor league system), Howard never had any down years like Dope has had. Howard always had a good BA and his power was consistent throughout his minor league career. We can only hope Dope makes a comeback this year--especially his power #'s. I just don't see where he fits within the Cubs system once he does establish himself again.

I agree that Howard is the superior player to Dopirak, but then again, no one, including Tim, is saying otherwise. Just that they have similarities. Both firstbasemen. Both big guys, 6'4" and over 230 lbs. Both have hit for huge power numbers in the minors. And both have/had all-star 1B blocking them at the big league level. Now, clearly, Howard's numbers were consistently better, but he was a year or two older than Brian at each minor league level and Dopirak has been set back by injuries.

 

Again, I'm not saying that Dope is as good as Howard, but at age 20, Brian put up .307/.363/.593 at Low-A while Howard, at 22, put up .280/.367/.460 at the same level. Howard progressed at the next level while Dopirak didn't, but again, he was older when he got there. The next year, Dope looked great in spring training and was ready to take on AA at age 22, but got injured in the first game, came back a little too soon and then re-injured himself working out. So his AA numbers from last season are not indicitive of what he can do.

 

All that said, the point I think Tim was making was simply that Howard didn't really see a lot of ABs at the major league until he was 25 and had his huge breakout season when he was 26. Dopirak is 23 going into this season at AA and doesn't turn 24 until December. So, Dope's got time.

 

As far as where he fits in the Cubs system, it's first base and only first base. Yes, the Cubs have Derrek Lee. But the Phillies had Jim Thome. Howard saw his first big chunk of time in the second half of '05 when he was 25. If Dope follows the same time line, he would have all of this year at AA. All of next year at AAA with a September call up and half of '09 in AAA as well before being called up for good. Who knows what the Cubs' needs will be by then. That's not so much my concern as how Dopirak will perform in the next 2 1/2 years at those higher levels. Probably not as well as Howard did, but you never know.

[craig]

..Just that they have similarities. Both firstbasemen. Both big guys, 6'4" and over 230 lbs. Both have hit for huge power numbers in the minors....

 

I agree with most of your post. There are similarities. And if Dopirak emerges into a big power hitter, well, there's value somehow. And obviously he's limited to 1B/DH/PH, it's not like he has defensive potential to move. (It's not clear whether he has defensive potential to be even adequate at 1B). And obviously it's not like he needs to hit like Howard. There is a level less than MVP-caliber that is still of value.

 

But, the real question for Dopirak revolves around how much huge power he'll ever had. "Both have hit for huge power numbers in the minors..." doesn't really seem true to me. He had one good power season, in low-A. He's consistently hit for big power in batting practice. But only at Peoria (or was it Lansing then?) did he hit for meaningful power. His Daytona season he showed only minor effective power.

 

Producing huge power is more than a matter of being strong and able to hit batting practice bombs. It requires that you can hit the pitches with the speed and movement that real pitchers throw when they are not trying to feed you bombables, but when they are trying to avoid throwing you bombables.

 

Dope obviously has the physical power to do that. At present, it seems that Peoria is likely to be the production exception, and that against better pitchers he'll never be able to apply his power often enough to be a value power guy. It's also obvious that last year was injury. So basically he had one good year at Peoria, and one bad year at Daytona. If he stinks again this year, 3-years-ago Peoria will be further established as the irrelevant fluke. If he produces big this year, the fact that he stunk at Daytona for a year will appear to be the who-knows-why fluke.

 

I see this as a make-or-break year for him. Most likely it will be a break, but too soon to know.l

[Shawon12]

..Just that they have similarities. Both firstbasemen. Both big guys, 6'4" and over 230 lbs. Both have hit for huge power numbers in the minors....

 

I agree with most of your post. There are similarities. And if Dopirak emerges into a big power hitter, well, there's value somehow. And obviously he's limited to 1B/DH/PH, it's not like he has defensive potential to move. (It's not clear whether he has defensive potential to be even adequate at 1B). And obviously it's not like he needs to hit like Howard. There is a level less than MVP-caliber that is still of value.

 

But, the real question for Dopirak revolves around how much huge power he'll ever had. "Both have hit for huge power numbers in the minors..." doesn't really seem true to me. He had one good power season, in low-A. He's consistently hit for big power in batting practice. But only at Peoria (or was it Lansing then?) did he hit for meaningful power. His Daytona season he showed only minor effective power.

 

Producing huge power is more than a matter of being strong and able to hit batting practice bombs. It requires that you can hit the pitches with the speed and movement that real pitchers throw when they are not trying to feed you bombables, but when they are trying to avoid throwing you bombables.

 

Dope obviously has the physical power to do that. At present, it seems that Peoria is likely to be the production exception, and that against better pitchers he'll never be able to apply his power often enough to be a value power guy. It's also obvious that last year was injury. So basically he had one good year at Peoria, and one bad year at Daytona. If he stinks again this year, 3-years-ago Peoria will be further established as the irrelevant fluke. If he produces big this year, the fact that he stunk at Daytona for a year will appear to be the who-knows-why fluke.

 

I see this as a make-or-break year for him. Most likely it will be a break, but too soon to know.l

 

Do you really think believe Dope was not on some sort of Performance enhancing drugs? It's difficult to even have a conversation about him because of this.

[seanhopper]

..Just that they have similarities. Both firstbasemen. Both big guys, 6'4" and over 230 lbs. Both have hit for huge power numbers in the minors....

 

I agree with most of your post. There are similarities. And if Dopirak emerges into a big power hitter, well, there's value somehow. And obviously he's limited to 1B/DH/PH, it's not like he has defensive potential to move. (It's not clear whether he has defensive potential to be even adequate at 1B). And obviously it's not like he needs to hit like Howard. There is a level less than MVP-caliber that is still of value.

 

But, the real question for Dopirak revolves around how much huge power he'll ever had. "Both have hit for huge power numbers in the minors..." doesn't really seem true to me. He had one good power season, in low-A. He's consistently hit for big power in batting practice. But only at Peoria (or was it Lansing then?) did he hit for meaningful power. His Daytona season he showed only minor effective power.

 

Producing huge power is more than a matter of being strong and able to hit batting practice bombs. It requires that you can hit the pitches with the speed and movement that real pitchers throw when they are not trying to feed you bombables, but when they are trying to avoid throwing you bombables.

 

Dope obviously has the physical power to do that. At present, it seems that Peoria is likely to be the production exception, and that against better pitchers he'll never be able to apply his power often enough to be a value power guy. It's also obvious that last year was injury. So basically he had one good year at Peoria, and one bad year at Daytona. If he stinks again this year, 3-years-ago Peoria will be further established as the irrelevant fluke. If he produces big this year, the fact that he stunk at Daytona for a year will appear to be the who-knows-why fluke.

 

I see this as a make-or-break year for him. Most likely it will be a break, but too soon to know.l

 

Craig--all good points and you eloquently pointed out what I was trying to in comparing Dope to Howard's minor league careers.

In regards Cubswin's points (sorry I don't have your real name), they are valid, as Howard was older at each level, but being drafted out of college vs. HS for Dope is the reason why. Howard was consistently good throughout and progressed each year. Dope has been injured, so he has that as an excuse for last year, but not for the yr. prior. He really needs this season to be his breakout or the Cubs are going to have a tough time justifying him on the 40 man roster and taking the spot of someone else. As Craig has pointed out, he's not a strong defender even at the position he's supposed to play at. He really needs to put it together offensively for him to take the next steps and eventually make it to the majors. I would love to hear what some of the new blood, in the organization think about him, i.e. Wilken, Piniella? It wouldn't surprise me to see Dope end up with Stockstill in Baltimore after a few more yrs. of ok results.

[CubinNY]

..Just that they have similarities. Both firstbasemen. Both big guys, 6'4" and over 230 lbs. Both have hit for huge power numbers in the minors....

 

I agree with most of your post. There are similarities. And if Dopirak emerges into a big power hitter, well, there's value somehow. And obviously he's limited to 1B/DH/PH, it's not like he has defensive potential to move. (It's not clear whether he has defensive potential to be even adequate at 1B). And obviously it's not like he needs to hit like Howard. There is a level less than MVP-caliber that is still of value.

 

But, the real question for Dopirak revolves around how much huge power he'll ever had. "Both have hit for huge power numbers in the minors..." doesn't really seem true to me. He had one good power season, in low-A. He's consistently hit for big power in batting practice. But only at Peoria (or was it Lansing then?) did he hit for meaningful power. His Daytona season he showed only minor effective power.

 

Producing huge power is more than a matter of being strong and able to hit batting practice bombs. It requires that you can hit the pitches with the speed and movement that real pitchers throw when they are not trying to feed you bombables, but when they are trying to avoid throwing you bombables.

 

Dope obviously has the physical power to do that. At present, it seems that Peoria is likely to be the production exception, and that against better pitchers he'll never be able to apply his power often enough to be a value power guy. It's also obvious that last year was injury. So basically he had one good year at Peoria, and one bad year at Daytona. If he stinks again this year, 3-years-ago Peoria will be further established as the irrelevant fluke. If he produces big this year, the fact that he stunk at Daytona for a year will appear to be the who-knows-why fluke.

 

I see this as a make-or-break year for him. Most likely it will be a break, but too soon to know.l

 

Do you really think believe Dope was not on some sort of Performance enhancing drugs? It's difficult to even have a conversation about him because of this.

 

I don't think steriods should even be in the conversation. Going from low A to high A is a huge change. And then from high A to AA is an even bigger jump. A jump that really never got started becuase of the broken foot.

 

Time will tell, but this is a kid in 2004 who showed a lot of promise.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

I disagree with some in this thread; what a case like Dopirak shows is that performance in the low minors has poor predictive ability regarding the true upside of a prospect. Until they can move up to at least AA and post good numbers, it's all a crapshoot. There are just too many non-prospects at the A level to draw any firm conclusions about these kids--half the time a guy like Dope went to bat in 04, he was facing pitchers with barely more talent than your everyday community college team's pitcher.

 

I wish him well, but the chances are, well, slim.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Rumor has it that once Ryan Harvey leaves EXT, he'll head to Daytona and not Tennessee.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Rumor has it that once Ryan Harvey leaves EXT, he'll head to Daytona and not Tennessee.

 

Boise roster full?