My thoughts on today's pitchers

[Brian]

I really don't understand Prior here

 

"I'm not worried about the velocity," Prior said. "It'll come. It's not something you lose."

 

Tons of pitchers lose velocity. Is there something I'm not getting here, or is Prior delusional.

[A New Era]

I really don't understand Prior here

 

"I'm not worried about the velocity," Prior said. "It'll come. It's not something you lose."

 

Tons of pitchers lose velocity. Is there something I'm not getting here, or is Prior delusional.

 

Probably just a little shook up from the start today. maybe a little lost confidence. We all have little brain farts now and then. Maybe he's using "you" in reffering to himself. Maybe he's confident that he will regain his normal velocity?

 

Sorry that's all I've got.

[98navigator]

I really don't understand Prior here

 

"I'm not worried about the velocity," Prior said. "It'll come. It's not something you lose."

 

Tons of pitchers lose velocity. Is there something I'm not getting here, or is Prior delusional.

 

Yeah, I agree but he says this:

 

Can Prior get back to 94 m.p.h. by the end of spring?

 

"Yeah," he said. "I did it last year. I was throwing 81 down here in extended [spring training]. It's about getting in shape and getting my mechanics. When I don't line things up right, I lose 2 or 3 [m.p.h.]. I saw that today, especially when I got out of the stretch and started pulling off the ball."

 

I don't recall Prior being as low as 81 mph.

Edited March 11, 2007 by 98navigator

[98navigator]

Here's more of Lou's quotes about Angel:

 

Tribune

 

"He's throwing the ball like he wants a spot here," Piniella said. "He's going to get every opportunity to [get one]. That was impressive. We'll probably start him [this week]."

[CaliforniaRaisin]

I really don't understand Prior here

 

"I'm not worried about the velocity," Prior said. "It'll come. It's not something you lose."

 

Tons of pitchers lose velocity. Is there something I'm not getting here, or is Prior delusional.

 

Looking at the rest of his quotes, it seemed like Mark was blaming mechanics for losing about 3 mph from his camp outings over the past few weeks.

[David]

I really don't understand Prior here

 

"I'm not worried about the velocity," Prior said. "It'll come. It's not something you lose."

 

Tons of pitchers lose velocity. Is there something I'm not getting here, or is Prior delusional.

 

Yeah, I agree but he says this:

 

Can Prior get back to 94 m.p.h. by the end of spring?

 

"Yeah," he said. "I did it last year. I was throwing 81 down here in extended [spring training]. It's about getting in shape and getting my mechanics. When I don't line things up right, I lose 2 or 3 [m.p.h.]. I saw that today, especially when I got out of the stretch and started pulling off the ball."

 

I don't recall Prior be as low as 81 mph.

 

 

That's probably because we didn't see nor hear anything about that. I do recall him being in the mid-80's in his minor league rehab starts, and just barely touching 90 in his first couple starts once he came up.

 

It's encouraging as far as his velocity. Let's just hope he can locate better than he did last year and get his breaking stuff back.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Here's Bruce's take on the Prior/Guzman debate.

 

With 22 days to go until Opening Day, it may be getting late for Prior in his bid to make the rotation, especially with rookie Angel Guzman charging hard as the darkhorse.

 

“It’s March 10,” Prior said. “When’s the season start?”

 

Piniella didn’t sugarcoat anything.

 

“He threw the ball a little better,” the manager said. “He couldn’t get his breaking ball over again and he’s pitching with one pitch and he’s not locating that pitch. So it’s not really a recipe for success right now. He needs to keep improving. It’s hard to pitch with one pitch, and he’s pitching up with the fastball. He needs to start getting that breaking ball. I think he’s cutting that breaking ball off.”

 

With four spots already taken in the rotation, Prior and Wade Miller each will have to step it up to hold off Guzman, whose fastball was clocked at 95-97 mph.

 

“There’s plenty of time to pick five starters still,” Piniella said, being diplomatic. “And we’ll leave it at that. All right?”

[jjgman21]

I had a couple thoughts.

 

I think the nature of Prior's curve has changed. the 10-6 he used to throw seems to be gone, at least for now. either he doesn't throw it anymore or the curve on it has changed. he has quite a bit of tilt on all his breaking pitches, and I don't think he's learned how to use that. he keeps trying to throw the curve on the black, and almost invariably the pitch ends up way outside. this goes back to last year. he needs to learn to use that tilt and start throwing the curve inside to right handers, or at least start it out more towards the middle of the plate.

 

regarding the velocity, he's not letting go. his arm action was that of a batting practice pitcher, yet he still reached 88 with consistency. it's just like Roth said a couple days ago. hopefully Prior will see Guz pushing him, decide he has to stop being cautious to keep his spot, and all of a sudden that arm action will be back as will the velocity.

 

another thing. comparisons to Guz and Wood's velocity at this point really aren't fair. Guz played winter ball, and Kerry is much farther along in his re-hab and was throwing all winter as well.

 

look for another three mph Prior's next time out. the key will be if he can start using that tilting curveball effectively.

[Guest]

I had a couple thoughts.

 

I think the nature of Prior's curve has changed. the 10-6 he used to throw seems to be gone, at least for now. either he doesn't throw it anymore or the curve on it has changed. he has quite a bit of tilt on all his breaking pitches, and I don't think he's learned how to use that. he keeps trying to throw the curve on the black, and almost invariably the pitch ends up way outside. this goes back to last year. he needs to learn to use that tilt and start throwing the curve inside to right handers, or at least start it out more towards the middle of the plate.

 

regarding the velocity, he's not letting go. his arm action was that of a batting practice pitcher, yet he still reached 88 with consistency. it's just like Roth said a couple days ago. hopefully Prior will see Guz pushing him, decide he has to stop being cautious to keep his spot, and all of a sudden that arm action will be back as will the velocity.

 

another thing. comparisons to Guz and Wood's velocity at this point really aren't fair. Guz played winter ball, and Kerry is much farther along in his re-hab and was throwing all winter as well.

 

look for another three mph Prior's next time out. the key will be if he can start using that tilting curveball effectively.

The tilt on the curve is because he was dropping his arm slot. It's very hard to throw a 12-6 from a low arm slot. He stayed on top of the one that made Sweeney look silly and that one had a 12-6 break.

[Magnetic Curses]

Marshall's going to be in AAA, guaranteed.

 

i think that marshall should be actively shopped, if he hasn't been already. sending him to the minors might decrease his perceived value. then again, other clubs should know that he won't make the big club anyway so it might not have a huge effect.

 

but i don't see marshall having much of any part in the cubs' future.

[nilodnayr]

I see the cubs taking the risk adverse position using Miller as the #5 starter at the beginning of the season, Prior rehabbing, and Guz in AAA. There is a reason Hendry amassed the starting pitching depth this offseason, he doesn't want to get caught with his pants down again. I think Lou will provide the riskier viewpoint, but Hendry will ultimately make the decision to keep Miller as long as possible to build up trade value as well wait until Prior looks better and Guz keeps on doing what hes doing. I'd love to see Guz break camp with a spot int he rotation, but I don't see it being as realistic as the option I presented above.

[CubColtPacer]

Marshall's going to be in AAA, guaranteed.

 

i think that marshall should be actively shopped, if he hasn't been already. sending him to the minors might decrease his perceived value. then again, other clubs should know that he won't make the big club anyway so it might not have a huge effect.

 

but i don't see marshall having much of any part in the cubs' future.

 

I definitely agree with this-Marshall's value comes in that he could be a decent major league pitcher very soon. He can't really increase his value in the minors (I can't see him raising his ceiling very much), and so each year he stays in the minors it will only decrease his value-with the Cubs having plenty of top-end pitching prospects, I'd trade Marshall now.

[Magnetic Curses]

Marshall's going to be in AAA, guaranteed.

 

i think that marshall should be actively shopped, if he hasn't been already. sending him to the minors might decrease his perceived value. then again, other clubs should know that he won't make the big club anyway so it might not have a huge effect.

 

but i don't see marshall having much of any part in the cubs' future.

 

I definitely agree with this-Marshall's value comes in that he could be a decent major league pitcher very soon. He can't really increase his value in the minors (I can't see him raising his ceiling very much), and so each year he stays in the minors it will only decrease his value-with the Cubs having plenty of top-end pitching prospects, I'd trade Marshall now.

 

he could be packaged with jones and/or miller. for what, i don't know.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Marshall's going to be in AAA, guaranteed.

 

i think that marshall should be actively shopped, if he hasn't been already. sending him to the minors might decrease his perceived value. then again, other clubs should know that he won't make the big club anyway so it might not have a huge effect.

 

but i don't see marshall having much of any part in the cubs' future.

 

I disagree. Marshall is still young and still has some years left before he has to be on major league roster. He may earn a spot on this team in the future. He has a lot to learn, but I think he has a chance to be a pretty good pitcher.

[BigbadB]

he could be packaged with jones and/or miller. for what, i don't know.

 

Are you wanting Jones packaged because you feel Pie should be in CF on opening day?

[Magnetic Curses]

he could be packaged with jones and/or miller. for what, i don't know.

 

Are you wanting Jones packaged because you feel Pie should be in CF on opening day?

 

no, because i want murton to play everyday.

[CubColtPacer]

he could be packaged with jones and/or miller. for what, i don't know.

 

Are you wanting Jones packaged because you feel Pie should be in CF on opening day?

 

no, because i want murton to play everyday.

 

So you're willing to make the season much harder to do that? If you trade Jones now, you either have Pie in CF (where the offense almost certainly suffers) or you have Murton in RF and Floyd in LF everyday, which is a disaster waiting to happen-if it be from terrible defense or Floyd breaking down.

[nilodnayr]

he could be packaged with jones and/or miller. for what, i don't know.

 

Are you wanting Jones packaged because you feel Pie should be in CF on opening day?

 

no, because i want murton to play everyday.

 

So you're willing to make the season much harder to do that? If you trade Jones now, you either have Pie in CF (where the offense almost certainly suffers) or you have Murton in RF and Floyd in LF everyday, which is a disaster waiting to happen-if it be from terrible defense or Floyd breaking down.

 

Well it obviously wouldnt be a pre-season trade so we would have the luxury of seeing how things play out in the OF as well as give Pie some more time in AAA, so take a big step back from the jump to conclusions mat.

[CubColtPacer]

he could be packaged with jones and/or miller. for what, i don't know.

 

Are you wanting Jones packaged because you feel Pie should be in CF on opening day?

 

no, because i want murton to play everyday.

 

So you're willing to make the season much harder to do that? If you trade Jones now, you either have Pie in CF (where the offense almost certainly suffers) or you have Murton in RF and Floyd in LF everyday, which is a disaster waiting to happen-if it be from terrible defense or Floyd breaking down.

 

Well it obviously wouldnt be a pre-season trade so we would have the luxury of seeing how things play out in the OF as well as give Pie some more time in AAA, so take a big step back from the jump to conclusions mat.

 

Except by including Miller in the discussions he almost certainly meant before Opening Day, along with wanting Murton to play everyday suggests that he wants to make this trade in March or April.

[Magnetic Curses]

he could be packaged with jones and/or miller. for what, i don't know.

 

Are you wanting Jones packaged because you feel Pie should be in CF on opening day?

 

no, because i want murton to play everyday.

 

So you're willing to make the season much harder to do that? If you trade Jones now, you either have Pie in CF (where the offense almost certainly suffers) or you have Murton in RF and Floyd in LF everyday, which is a disaster waiting to happen-if it be from terrible defense or Floyd breaking down.

 

depriving murton of playing time now is a disaster waiting to happen. the guy looks like he could be on the verge of a breakout season. if he's not getting plate appearances, that doesn't bode so well for the team.

 

i can live with below average defense in the outfield if it means that murton continues his progression. if floyd is healthy enough by opening day, i doubt murton gets many PA's.

[CubColtPacer]

he could be packaged with jones and/or miller. for what, i don't know.

 

Are you wanting Jones packaged because you feel Pie should be in CF on opening day?

 

no, because i want murton to play everyday.

 

So you're willing to make the season much harder to do that? If you trade Jones now, you either have Pie in CF (where the offense almost certainly suffers) or you have Murton in RF and Floyd in LF everyday, which is a disaster waiting to happen-if it be from terrible defense or Floyd breaking down.

 

depriving murton of playing time now is a disaster waiting to happen. the guy looks like he could be on the verge of a breakout season. if he's not getting plate appearances, that doesn't bode so well for the team.

 

i can live with below average defense in the outfield if it means that murton continues his progression. if floyd is healthy enough by opening day, i doubt murton gets many PA's.

 

Murton will get 400 PA regardless-he'll get all the AB's against left-handers, some of the right-handers, and pinch-hitting appearances-besides, now that he's Lou's number 1 option for a number 2 hitter he's going to get a good amount of playing time.

[Magnetic Curses]

he could be packaged with jones and/or miller. for what, i don't know.

 

Are you wanting Jones packaged because you feel Pie should be in CF on opening day?

 

no, because i want murton to play everyday.

 

So you're willing to make the season much harder to do that? If you trade Jones now, you either have Pie in CF (where the offense almost certainly suffers) or you have Murton in RF and Floyd in LF everyday, which is a disaster waiting to happen-if it be from terrible defense or Floyd breaking down.

 

depriving murton of playing time now is a disaster waiting to happen. the guy looks like he could be on the verge of a breakout season. if he's not getting plate appearances, that doesn't bode so well for the team.

 

i can live with below average defense in the outfield if it means that murton continues his progression. if floyd is healthy enough by opening day, i doubt murton gets many PA's.

 

Murton will get 400 PA regardless-he'll get all the AB's against left-handers, some of the right-handers, and pinch-hitting appearances-besides, now that he's Lou's number 1 option for a number 2 hitter he's going to get a good amount of playing time.

 

i don't think that getting him more plate appearances by pinch hitting him more is going to make me feel any better.

[98navigator]

Guzman's first start will be Friday against the White Sox.

 

"You've got to like the young man," Piniella said. "He's thrown 94, 95 [mph]. He's getting his breaking ball over. You've got to like what you see, you really do. He's pitching like he wants a job on the staff, whether it's in the bullpen or in the rotation."

 

Lou has already admitted that he isn't considering Guzman for the bullpen so you can read into that what you wish...

 

"I don't want to throw this year away," Guzman said. "I think this is the year I have to show everybody, especially the Cubs, and to help my team get a lot of wins, get to the playoffs and get to the World Series."

 

I like the way he thinks.

[Danny82]

he could be packaged with jones and/or miller. for what, i don't know.

 

Are you wanting Jones packaged because you feel Pie should be in CF on opening day?

 

no, because i want murton to play everyday.

 

So you're willing to make the season much harder to do that? If you trade Jones now, you either have Pie in CF (where the offense almost certainly suffers) or you have Murton in RF and Floyd in LF everyday, which is a disaster waiting to happen-if it be from terrible defense or Floyd breaking down.

 

depriving murton of playing time now is a disaster waiting to happen. the guy looks like he could be on the verge of a breakout season. if he's not getting plate appearances, that doesn't bode so well for the team.

 

i can live with below average defense in the outfield if it means that murton continues his progression. if floyd is healthy enough by opening day, i doubt murton gets many PA's.

 

Murton will get 400 PA regardless-he'll get all the AB's against left-handers, some of the right-handers, and pinch-hitting appearances-besides, now that he's Lou's number 1 option for a number 2 hitter he's going to get a good amount of playing time.

 

i don't think that getting him more plate appearances by pinch hitting him more is going to make me feel any better.

 

Huh?

 

He merely listed pinch hitting opportunities as the last of three scenarios that would combine to get him 400 PAs.

 

The fact that you've been an avid proponent of trading Jones for nothing to ensure that Murton gets more playing time makes me wonder if you care more about Murton getting as many PAs as possible than the Cubs winning ballgames.

Edited March 12, 2007 by Danny82

[98navigator]

Lou on pitching:

 

 

Piniella said he's still leaning toward 12 pitchers on the Opening Day roster.... The Cubs still need a designated long man.

 

 

One guy who could stick around is right-hander Rocky Cherry...

 

Could Cherry make the final 25-man roster?

 

"I like the kid, I really do" Piniella said of Cherry... "He's got nice presence. He's got good stuff. He's got a real nice slider, a good hard sinker.

 

The answer to that is yes.

 

"Let's put the best bullpen together that we can and see where that takes us," Piniella said. "We've been pitching him in the ninth inning in save situations just to take a better look."