Ken Rosenthal: Cubs Looking for Cheap CF

[Guest]

Play Jim Hendry:

 

Darin Erstad is signing with the White Sox. The Nats are, assumedly asking for more then what's Church worth is. Then you have guys like Shannon Stewart, Bernie Williams, Eric Young, Ricky Ledee, Michael Tucker, Preston Wilson and Steve Finley, who have all degrees of CF expertise.

 

Then you have guys like Sam Fuld, Chris Walker, etc, who are exactly what the Cubs are looking for in their search for the "young, cheap CF to keep the spot warm for Pie".

 

So as you can tell, on the FA market, there is not much to work with. I personally, think Fuld or Walker could do what those "FA" could do, but at a fraction of the cost. I rather the Cubs look in house (sound of a broken record, I know) for the temp CF, then through FA.

[Outshined_One]

Um...why are people convinced that Walker and Fuld would be serviceable in CF next season while doubting Pie's ability to produce comparable, if not markedly better numbers? Fuld's never played above A ball and Walker put up Pierre-like numbers at CF for AA West Tenn, only with 100+ strikeouts, and has never played in AAA.

 

If you want to go young, just throw Pie out there. He's more talented than anyone else in the system and already has shown the ability to hit AAA pitching. Don't yo-yo him and give him consistency in the lineup and he'll have a shot at being productive.

 

If you want a stopgap, they shouldsee what Soriano, Jock, or Theriot can do out there and make Pie force their hands by pounding AAA pitching.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Based on comments I heard at the convention, it appears Murton will get his AB. Both Piniella and Hendry spoke highly of him.

[goonys evil twin]

Based on comments I heard at the convention, it appears Murton will get his AB. Both Piniella and Hendry spoke highly of him.

 

The question is what "his AB" means in terms of numbers. 400 PA? 500 PA? 600 PA? 350 PA?

[Guest]

Um...why are people convinced that Walker and Fuld would be serviceable in CF next season while doubting Pie's ability to produce comparable, if not markedly better numbers? Fuld's never played above A ball and Walker put up Pierre-like numbers at CF for AA West Tenn, only with 100+ strikeouts, and has never played in AAA.

 

It's not everybody, Outshine, it's just me. And my reasoning...cheaper in house candidates are better then more expensive out of the org candidates. It is also my reasoning, that replacing Fuld/Walker, would be easier to replace then a vet who may be hot, at the time the Cubs are looking to call up Pie. It's no secret the Cubs want Pie in CF at some point in 2007, and Walker/Fuld would give Pie the least resistance for the position. And if Fuld/Walker does prove they are not major leaguers, then they will be gone quicker then Adam Greenberg. What I am saying is, I rather have Fuld/Walker in CF, then some crappy FA vet. Besides, I didn't say I was convinced that Fuld/Walker would be serviceable in CF, but considering the options, I rather have Fuld/Walker over somebody like Finley/Eric Young, or even a Shannon Stewart.

 

 

If you want to go young, just throw Pie out there. He's more talented than anyone else in the system and already has shown the ability to hit AAA pitching. Don't yo-yo him and give him consistency in the lineup and he'll have a shot at being productive.

 

You KNOW he isn't ready, Outshine. I rather him have two great months (April/May) in AAA, before I want him in Chicago.

 

If you want a stopgap, they shouldsee what Soriano, Jock, or Theriot can do out there and make Pie force their hands by pounding AAA pitching.

 

Personally, I want either of these suggestions, but the Cubs might be convince that Soriano should stay in RF, and they may not want to keep Jock, with Floyd coming on board, shortly. And while the idea of Theriot in CF is intrguining, you can't count on the Cubs to even consider that possibilities. I'm just saying the Cubs, should evaluate ALL in house candidates, before they look outside of the org, for the short term help in CF. That, of course, if only Church is no longer available. If Ryan is still available, I say go after Church, but outside of Church, there not an outside the org candidate, I want on the Cubs.

[Monco]

When they signed Soriano they said he would play a corner and stay there.He should play right and not center. Especially since Pie is considered the future. Let Jock play center until Pie is ready. Hes played it in the past. Hopefully by the deadline Pie will be ready. Then you can trade Jones. At the deadline his trade value will be at its highest. Plus he wasn't exactly an asset playing right. Can he be any worse in center?

Theriot would be an option as would Murton. If Floyds any good he'll be taking at bats from Murton. I'd hate to see Murton on the bench and I believe any of the 3 i've mentioned can't be serviceable in center.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Soriano in a corner changed when he said he wanted to play CF. Since the Cubs already have Murton and Jones, Soriano in CF made a lot of sense to Lou and it does me as well.

 

If he can handle CF defensively (and he has the tools to do so), then if the Cubs need to upgrade with a bat at midseason, it's easier to find a RF or LF than it is a CF.

[Amazing_Grace]

I agree with whoever said "hope is the absence of planning." Hendry "hopes" Soriano will accept multiple position swaps just like he did in Washington. Hendry "hopes" Pie will become an above average ML outfielder in his first season of play. Hendry "hopes" he can trade Jacque Jones for something other than ABC gum. Hendry "hopes" that Rothschild had nothing to do with the pitching injuries and it was all Baker. Hendry "hopes" Rothschild can really correct Marquis's problems after 2 of baseball's best pitching coaches each failed to do so.

 

Now, he should have told Soriano before he was signed that the position we really needed this year was a CF but he might have to move back to a corner next year. He should have not signed Marquis period. He should have realized Izturis stinks and considered actually upgrading at SS so we could live with a marginal and uncertain (offensively) CF. He should have offered Jones the chance to start in CF (perhaps he did and we didn't hear about it, but at this point I think Hendry is about as stubborn as Bush so I'm betting he didn't). He should have traded Pie (plus some of the likes of Mateo, Marshall, etc.) the very instant it became apparent Soriano wouldn't sign if he had to switch positions and acquired either A.) a pitcher better, and hopefully cheaper, than Marquis or B.) a youngish CF or OF who could definitely fill the void this year, rather than maybe sometime around midseason if all goes well. And, of course, he should have swallowed his pride and realized that when you lose, it's probably because, actually, you were wrong about some of the assumptions you made or conclusions you drew when you started, changed his philosophy, and looked at something other than HR, AVG, SB, and RISP AVG to evaluate players.

 

He did none of this, so instead of a plan, we once again have to hope that one or more of several unlikely events occurs in order for us to have a good to great season. And yet, he's managed to lock up most of our payroll through 2009 without reupping Zambrano yet, guaranteeing that his wrongheadedness will haunt us for year to come. Kudos Jim

[Monco]

I don't like Soriano playing center until Pie is ready. Basically, by the time Soriano gets comfortable in center,he gets moved. Unless Pie plays right. Soriano can probably play either,but Jones is bad in right. His poor arm would be better in center.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Um...why are people convinced that Walker and Fuld would be serviceable in CF next season while doubting Pie's ability to produce comparable, if not markedly better numbers? Fuld's never played above A ball and Walker put up Pierre-like numbers at CF for AA West Tenn, only with 100+ strikeouts, and has never played in AAA.

 

It's not everybody, Outshine, it's just me. And my reasoning...cheaper in house candidates are better then more expensive out of the org candidates. It is also my reasoning, that replacing Fuld/Walker, would be easier to replace then a vet who may be hot, at the time the Cubs are looking to call up Pie. It's no secret the Cubs want Pie in CF at some point in 2007, and Walker/Fuld would give Pie the least resistance for the position. And if Fuld/Walker does prove they are not major leaguers, then they will be gone quicker then Adam Greenberg. What I am saying is, I rather have Fuld/Walker in CF, then some crappy FA vet. Besides, I didn't say I was convinced that Fuld/Walker would be serviceable in CF, but considering the options, I rather have Fuld/Walker over somebody like Finley/Eric Young, or even a Shannon Stewart.

 

Finley or EY or Shannon Stewart would outperform Chris Walker or Fuld. The furtherest Fuld has advanced in the minors was his half-season at high-A (assuming he's healthy enough to play). Both are worse defensively than Pie and Walker has major issues with contact. Pagan would likely do better. Pie would do better.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Hendry said at the Convention that if Soriano were in CF, Pie could play RF. He said Pie had the arm for RF and will have enough power to play there as well.

[RichHillIsABeast]

Hendry said at the Convention that if Soriano were in CF, Pie could play RF. He said Pie had the arm for RF and will have enough power to play there as well.

 

Yeah, Pie can play RF just fine, but the better defensive lineup is Murton, Pie, Soriano in LF, CF, and RF respectively.

 

This is such crap. Pie is going to play RF instead of CF just so we can skip over the short term issue of who plays CF until Pie is ready. L A M E.

[tkenm356]

The Cubs have a couple of options in the minors, that would keep the spot warm, until Pie is ready.

 

I agree with looking in house to fill the void, but why would we bring in a different minor leaguer to fill the void before Pie gets there when Pie is the best CF option in our minor league system? If we're looking in house we should just put Pie ot there to begin with. That way it'll still be really cheap, and we're just cutting out the middle man of the 3-4 months before he's called up. Seriously, what will 3 months of extra minor league ball do for his game that he hasn't already learned? You also got to think that once he is called up he'll be under a new hitting coach with probably much different philosophy than our minor league hitting coaches that he'll have to adapt to.

 

I just think we should bring him in at the start of the season and be done with the issue. That seems like the most logical thing to me.

[Amazing_Grace]

The Cubs have a couple of options in the minors, that would keep the spot warm, until Pie is ready.

 

I agree with looking in house to fill the void, but why would we bring in a different minor leaguer to fill the void before Pie gets there when Pie is the best CF option in our minor league system? If we're looking in house we should just put Pie ot there to begin with. That way it'll still be really cheap, and we're just cutting out the middle man of the 3-4 months before he's called up. Seriously, what will 3 months of extra minor league ball do for his game that he hasn't already learned? You also got to think that once he is called up he'll be under a new hitting coach with probably much different philosophy than our minor league hitting coaches that he'll have to adapt to.

 

I just think we should bring him in at the start of the season and be done with the issue. That seems like the most logical thing to me.

 

I believe the two most likely possibilities for them not wanting to start off with Pie opening day are 1.) they want to delay his FA/Arbi clock 1 year in order to save money down the road (next year and the year after could both be tight budget-wise) and 2.) they fear that he'll start slow in the early months, cold weather, whatever and worry there will be too much pressure on him if he's hitting around .250 with the team struggling and they'll create a situation (maybe Lou gets frustrated, maybe the fans start booing, maybe he starts pressing and makes it worse) where his cheap years are wasted as he's yanked up and down between AAA and the Cubs like CPatt

[Guest]

We took a young, cheap CF in the Rule 5 draft. Then we turned around and traded him to Cincy.

[RichHillIsABeast]

We took a young, cheap CF in the Rule 5 draft. Then we turned around and traded him to Cincy.

 

Are you saying he's ML ready, b/c he's not. Not even close.

[Guest]

We took a young, cheap CF in the Rule 5 draft. Then we turned around and traded him to Cincy.

 

Are you saying he's ML ready, b/c he's not. Not even close.

I didn't say he was ready. I said he was young and cheap.

[BigbadB]

If we are going to go in house until Pie is ready, the guy's name is Jacque Jones. Let Theriot or Pagan hit against LH pitchers and call it good.

 

That way Soriano doesn't have to move positions when Pie is ready, Jones can build up some value for a trade at the deadline, especially if he plays a respectable CF.

 

If Jones and the Cubs are doing well enough, they can consider hanging onto him and let Pie have a full season in AAA and try his luck in a late season call up.

[RichHillIsABeast]

We took a young, cheap CF in the Rule 5 draft. Then we turned around and traded him to Cincy.

 

Are you saying he's ML ready, b/c he's not. Not even close.

I didn't say he was ready. I said he was young and cheap.

 

The majority of guys in the minors are young and cheap. What's your point? That he should/could have been our temporary CF option until Pie is ready? lol

[BigbadB]

Yeah, I think I'd rather give Walker or Fuld the opportunity ahead of Josh Hamilton. Josh had a lot of talent. How much he still has after missing so much time is hard to say.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and say he won't stick with the Reds all year. Yeah, I'm such a gambler. :D

[Bruno7481]

Yeah, I think I'd rather give Walker or Fuld the opportunity ahead of Josh Hamilton. Josh had a lot of talent. How much he still has after missing so much time is hard to say.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and say he won't stick with the Reds all year. Yeah, I'm such a gambler. :D

 

All year? I don't think he sticks at all.

 

I don't care how much talent you have. Kind of impossible to only play a handful of games in 4 years and expect to make a Major League Club.

[questionmarkgrace]

call me crazy, but I say Hamilton does stick and actually does well. Just a hunch based on his comments after the reds got him. He seemed really determined to showcase his talent.

 

Back to the topic, Maybe the cubs brass want to re-establish somesort of trade value to Jacque by saying they are going to keep him.

[NCCubFan]

If you want to go young, just throw Pie out there. He's more talented than anyone else in the system and already has shown the ability to hit AAA pitching. Don't yo-yo him and give him consistency in the lineup and he'll have a shot at being productive.

 

You KNOW he isn't ready, Outshine. I rather him have two great months (April/May) in AAA, before I want him in Chicago.

If one knows that Pie isn't ready, one knows even more that Walker and Fuld aren't ready. They can't even be a consideration.

[Yeti]

Pie in the sky... =P~

[Guest]

If one knows that Pie isn't ready, one knows even more that Walker and Fuld aren't ready. They can't even be a consideration.

 

Neither was Adam Greenberg. All I saying, if the Cubs won't consider Soriano, or a platoon of Jones/Theriot in CF, Walker or Fuld would be BETTER option then going after Bernie Williams or Steve Finley.