What if Hendry has to quit as GM for the Cubs?

[Geech]

I want to read a book by Pat Gillick. Or Brian Sabean. Or Terry Ryan—but we can’t get him to brag about himself. These guys won’t do it. When they write a book, I want to read it.

 

It never stops being funny.

[n l doormat]

Hendry should be glad he has Piniella and Hughes working for him. From what I understand, they insisted he go to the hospital, and Piniella drove him there.

[Drew Doughty]

I want to read a book by Pat Gillick. Or Brian Sabean. Or Terry Ryan—but we can’t get him to brag about himself. These guys won’t do it. When they write a book, I want to read it.

 

It never stops being funny.

 

:lol:

[Banedon]

That debate/conversation is just an amazing read.

[CUBZ99]

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/features/050107debate.html

 

Nice read and interesting debate.

[Lefty]

Chris Antonetti or Paul DePodesta

 

There are no other options.

 

DePodesta?

 

The man that brought LA its second worst season since moving the franchise there in 1958?

 

I understand why people are intrigued by him, but he didn't exactly perform all that well in LA.

 

To say there are no other options is pretty shortsighted.

 

DePo won the division his first year there and got rid of some lousy contracts. Then one bad year and he is gone. He wasn't fired for performance, but for personality and others' ignorance.

[KingCubsFan]

Chris Antonetti or Paul DePodesta

 

There are no other options.

 

DePodesta?

 

The man that brought LA its second worst season since moving the franchise there in 1958?

 

I understand why people are intrigued by him, but he didn't exactly perform all that well in LA.

 

To say there are no other options is pretty shortsighted.

 

DePo won the division his first year there and got rid of some lousy contracts. Then one bad year and he is gone. He wasn't fired for performance, but for personality and others' ignorance.

He was fired because his team tanked and then he couldn't hire a manager

[Drew Doughty]

Chris Antonetti or Paul DePodesta

 

There are no other options.

 

DePodesta?

 

The man that brought LA its second worst season since moving the franchise there in 1958?

 

I understand why people are intrigued by him, but he didn't exactly perform all that well in LA.

 

To say there are no other options is pretty shortsighted.

 

DePo won the division his first year there and got rid of some lousy contracts. Then one bad year and he is gone. He wasn't fired for performance, but for personality and others' ignorance.

 

He was fired because his team tanked and then he couldn't hire a manager

 

Wasn't he fired in October? It seems rather quick to pull the trigger for that reason. I don't really understand the affinity for going out and getting a manager right away, especially if you're a guy like Depo who comes from the philosophy that the manager is just a middle man. If you hire Depodesta in the first place, you have to know that he's going to do things a little different.

[Soul]

Kenny Williams, not a moneyball guy.

 

Walt Jocketty, not a moneyball guy.

 

Moneyball is overrated. Stat-head GM'ing, overrated.

 

Not saying I want Gary Hughes as my GM, but the whole Moneyball flap should be viewed as an important contribution to the evolution of effective baseball management, NOT as the end-all be-all of how to produce a winner.

[Soul]

No thank you to Kenny Williams. He's the lucky version of Hendry. It's bound to run out some time.

 

Wow. You're not biased or anything. I mean, it's not like he won a World Series.

 

He totally caused his pitchers to have freakishly good postseasons. Saying he's a lucky version of Hendry is an overstatement. He is not a good GM, and I would not be happy if he took over for Hendry.

 

He what? "Caused his pitchers to have freakishly good postseasons"???

 

Explain that one to me, because I think every GM on the planet would like to know how Kenny did that.

[KingCubsFan]

Chris Antonetti or Paul DePodesta

 

There are no other options.

 

DePodesta?

 

The man that brought LA its second worst season since moving the franchise there in 1958?

 

I understand why people are intrigued by him, but he didn't exactly perform all that well in LA.

 

To say there are no other options is pretty shortsighted.

 

DePo won the division his first year there and got rid of some lousy contracts. Then one bad year and he is gone. He wasn't fired for performance, but for personality and others' ignorance.

 

He was fired because his team tanked and then he couldn't hire a manager

 

Wasn't he fired in October? It seems rather quick to pull the trigger for that reason. I don't really understand the affinity for going out and getting a manager right away, especially if you're a guy like Depo who comes from the philosophy that the manager is just a middle man. If you hire Depodesta in the first place, you have to know that he's going to do things a little different.

He was unable to get good candidates for the job, apparently, and it upset McCourt

[Bruce Miles]

Denigrating someone because you don't like their method of getting things done is totally unfair and closed minded. Gary Hughes has gotten a lot of good things done in this game. He didn't know what DIPS was during a roundtable discussion? So what? That's so overblown.

I look at Baseball America naming him one of the Top 10 Scouts of the 20th Century and one of the best player development executives for the 1990s. I look at all the players he has procured or helped to procure, one way or another, including all those players in Montreal and all those players in Florida.

Oh, and he has a championship ring for his efforts in Florida.

This guy has forgotten more about baseball and what makes a good player than most people will ever know.

You don't have to agree with everything he says _ I don't _ but you have to respect the knowledge, the effort and the results.

[baseball7897]

Denigrating someone because you don't like their method of getting things done is totally unfair and closed minded. Gary Hughes has gotten a lot of good things done in this game. He didn't know what DIPS was during a roundtable discussion? So what? That's so overblown.

I look at Baseball America naming him one of the Top 10 Scouts of the 20th Century and one of the best player development executives for the 1990s. I look at all the players he has procured or helped to procure, one way or another, including all those players in Montreal and all those players in Florida.

Oh, and he has a championship ring for his efforts in Florida.

This guy has forgotten more about baseball and what makes a good player than most people will ever know.

You don't have to agree with everything he says _ I don't _ but you have to respect the knowledge, the effort and the results.

 

Very well said.

[KingCubsFan]

No thank you to Kenny Williams. He's the lucky version of Hendry. It's bound to run out some time.

 

Wow. You're not biased or anything. I mean, it's not like he won a World Series.

 

He totally caused his pitchers to have freakishly good postseasons. Saying he's a lucky version of Hendry is an overstatement. He is not a good GM, and I would not be happy if he took over for Hendry.

 

He what? "Caused his pitchers to have freakishly good postseasons"???

 

Explain that one to me, because I think every GM on the planet would like to know how Kenny did that.

Saying that Kenny Williams only won a WS because his pitchers had freakishly good postseasons is an overstatement as well. He traded for Contreras when nobody wanted him, stuck with Garland when everybody wanted to get rid of him, made a trade for Garcia, and signed Dye (who turned out to be the World Series MVP) early in the offseason to a ridiculously low deal. He got lucky in a lot of ways, but he should also be credited for making the moves that he did. Part of the reason his pitchers had "freakishly good postseasons" was because, talent-wise, they were capable of doing do. Williams assembled that talent, picked a manager whose coaching staff allowed that talent to develop, and watched them roll through the playoffs. A lot of luck involved, but not entirely

[jacey]

DAN EVANS

[Banedon]

Denigrating someone because you don't like their method of getting things done is totally unfair and closed minded. Gary Hughes has gotten a lot of good things done in this game. He didn't know what DIPS was during a roundtable discussion? So what? That's so overblown.

I look at Baseball America naming him one of the Top 10 Scouts of the 20th Century and one of the best player development executives for the 1990s. I look at all the players he has procured or helped to procure, one way or another, including all those players in Montreal and all those players in Florida.

Oh, and he has a championship ring for his efforts in Florida.

This guy has forgotten more about baseball and what makes a good player than most people will ever know.

You don't have to agree with everything he says _ I don't _ but you have to respect the knowledge, the effort and the results.

 

I certainly wouldn't denigrate him personally, but I can't say that he would be my selection for GM if Jim Hendry had to step down. I've simply seen the approach that he talks about (scouting heavily valued over stats) used an awful lot in the Cubs organization, with very little results to show for it as far as championships go. I don't think there's a problem with wanting to see someone with a different approach in there. Will it work? I don't know. But I'd like to find out. I'd like to see a more balanced approach between scouting and stats. And as good as Gary may be at the scouting aspect, I don't see where he's able or willing to incorporate the stats in a complementary fashion.

 

Admittedly, I don't know the guy, so that's just purely an observation from what I have read.

[TruffleShuffle]

what's ed lynch up to these days?

[Bruce Miles]

These are excerpts from an interview I did with Gary Hughes for a big project in the spring of 2005:

 

“There has to be a mesh in the beginning where you get something from both sides (scouts and stats guys)."

 

"I have flown through three time zones to see a (high school) guy only to see the coach go, 'Put him on. Put him on. Put him on (issue intentional walks).' He never got an at-bat. That helps his on-base percentage."

 

When I'm doing pro coverage and I get to the park and get a stat sheet, that's (OBP) the first thing I've looked for 30 years. Wow. This didn't just get invented."

 

"What Billy Beane has done in Oakland is phenomenal. That's "money-ball." Do I agree with everything in the book that they do and how they did it? No. Do I admire the hell out of what they've done? Yes, because of the fact they're constricted by money. Don't tell me Boston's a "Moneyball" team, not with a hundred-bazillion dollar payroll. That's not "Moneyball."

 

I don't think it fits the caricature.

[Banedon]

These are excerpts from an interview I did with Gary Hughes for a big project in the spring of 2005:

 

“There has to be a mesh in the beginning where you get something from both sides (scouts and stats guys)."

 

"I have flown through three time zones to see a (high school) guy only to see the coach go, 'Put him on. Put him on. Put him on (issue intentional walks).' He never got an at-bat. That helps his on-base percentage."

 

When I'm doing pro coverage and I get to the park and get a stat sheet, that's (OBP) the first thing I've looked for 30 years. Wow. This didn't just get invented."

 

"What Billy Beane has done in Oakland is phenomenal. That's "money-ball." Do I agree with everything in the book that they do and how they did it? No. Do I admire the hell out of what they've done? Yes, because of the fact they're constricted by money. Don't tell me Boston's a "Moneyball" team, not with a hundred-bazillion dollar payroll. That's not "Moneyball."

 

I don't think it fits the caricature.

 

Fair enough. I hadn't read that. I'm willing to admit I could be wrong with my impression of him.

[TruffleShuffle]

Bruce, feel free to also dispel the 3 year, $27M contract offer to Marquis, so that people here don't have to consider throwing themselves from the nearest high building.

[Banedon]

Bruce, feel free to also dispel the 3 year, $27M contract offer to Marquis, so that people here don't have to consider throwing themselves from the nearest high building.

 

And by "people here", he means himself... :P

[Bruce Miles]

Bruce, feel free to also dispel the 3 year, $27M contract offer to Marquis, so that people here don't have to consider throwing themselves from the nearest high building.

 

I don't know about the numbers, but I've been writing since last month that they're interested (I know there's a thread about this, so let's keep it over there. But I'll answer the question here.) I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him signed.

[Banedon]

Bruce, feel free to also dispel the 3 year, $27M contract offer to Marquis, so that people here don't have to consider throwing themselves from the nearest high building.

 

I don't know about the numbers, but I've been writing since last month that they're interested (I know there's a thread about this, so let's keep it over there. But I'll answer the question here.) I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him signed.

 

I'll quote you over in that thread to keep the discussion there....

[Tracer Bullet]

Gary Hughes may know a ton about baseball and may be the greatest scout ever, I still don't want him to have the final say in player acquisition. I'd want his input, but I wouldn't want him making the decisions.

[Bruno7481]

Denigrating someone because you don't like their method of getting things done is totally unfair and closed minded. Gary Hughes has gotten a lot of good things done in this game. He didn't know what DIPS was during a roundtable discussion? So what? That's so overblown.

I look at Baseball America naming him one of the Top 10 Scouts of the 20th Century and one of the best player development executives for the 1990s. I look at all the players he has procured or helped to procure, one way or another, including all those players in Montreal and all those players in Florida.

Oh, and he has a championship ring for his efforts in Florida.

This guy has forgotten more about baseball and what makes a good player than most people will ever know.

You don't have to agree with everything he says _ I don't _ but you have to respect the knowledge, the effort and the results.

 

Excellent post.

 

Often times people are so quick to judge another based on an article or a couple of quotes. After that, no matter what anybody says, their minds are already made up.

 

I think Hughes is a very important resource for the Cubs organization, and I hope he continues to be so.