Freddy Garcia to Phillies for Gavin Floyd.

[cl smooth]

why did kenny williams trade for a player he previously had the year before? didn't he do the same thing a few years back with robby alomar and carl everett? if you like the guy, keep him the first time around! :?

[nilodnayr]

Not to mention that Floyd is out of option years so he has to be on the 25 man roster...looks like hes going to be the 14th hard throwing righty in the pen. Smart to get Gio back though...hes the bigger part of the deal. People would have been fuming here if we would have given up Veal or Gallagher for Freddy.

[jjgman21]

Kenny has a way with these deals. I'm sure he knows the players he got have some good potential.

 

That and the fact that Freddie is owned a ton of money(for them) and the White Sox can afford to wait on young pitching.

 

Ha! Yeah he knows them because the best player coming back was the one he traded to Phillie for Thome...who would have guessed he would get Gio back and not Rowand.

 

the Phillies? Gonzalez sucked last year as well.

[Flames24Rulz]

Does anyone else here think that Floyd is going to be traded somewhere else in another deal? I don't see how this helps the Sox at all because I thought they were trying to open a rotation spot for McCarthy. Adding another starter in Floyd doesn't make much sense at all.

[nilodnayr]

why did kenny williams trade for a player he previously had the year before? didn't he do the same thing a few years back with robby alomar and carl everett? if you like the guy, keep him the first time around! :?

 

Um, I'm guessing because the Phils wouldn't have traded them Thome unless they gave up Gio?

[Drew Doughty]

Does anyone else here think that Floyd is going to be traded somewhere else in another deal? I don't see how this helps the Sox at all because I thought they were trying to open a rotation spot for McCarthy. Adding another starter in Floyd doesn't make much sense at all.

 

Floyd shouldn't hinder McCarthy from making the rotation.

[Laura]

Does anyone else here think that Floyd is going to be traded somewhere else in another deal? I don't see how this helps the Sox at all because I thought they were trying to open a rotation spot for McCarthy. Adding another starter in Floyd doesn't make much sense at all.

 

White Sox fans are hoping that eventually one or both of them can be spun to Tampa Bay for an outfielder.

[cubs121]

wow... what a weird trade..... I seriously think we could have offered better. :shock:

[Outshined_One]

So the deal was Floyd & Gonzo for Garcia?

[nilodnayr]

Kenny has a way with these deals. I'm sure he knows the players he got have some good potential.

 

That and the fact that Freddie is owned a ton of money(for them) and the White Sox can afford to wait on young pitching.

 

Ha! Yeah he knows them because the best player coming back was the one he traded to Phillie for Thome...who would have guessed he would get Gio back and not Rowand.

 

the Phillies? Gonzalez sucked last year as well.

 

He had big problems with homers and walks, but did strike out over a batter an inning and put up a 4.66 ERA in AA as only a 20 yr old. He let up 169 fly balls, but 24 HRs, so those extra 7 HRs over expected hurt. Plus his BABIP was about league average (.300), but his LD% was only 9%, so his expected BABIP should have only been .210. (That can't be right, can it?) He did give up an IsoD of .100, which is horrible, but I would say he far from sucked.

[nilodnayr]

wow... what a weird trade..... I seriously think we could have offered better. :shock:

 

Who do you think we have that is better than Floyd and Gio?

[jjgman21]

Kenny has a way with these deals. I'm sure he knows the players he got have some good potential.

 

That and the fact that Freddie is owned a ton of money(for them) and the White Sox can afford to wait on young pitching.

 

Ha! Yeah he knows them because the best player coming back was the one he traded to Phillie for Thome...who would have guessed he would get Gio back and not Rowand.

 

the Phillies? Gonzalez sucked last year as well.

 

He had big problems with homers and walks, but did strike out over a batter an inning and put up a 4.66 ERA in AA as only a 20 yr old. He let up 169 fly balls, but 24 HRs, so those extra 7 HRs over expected hurt. Plus his BABIP was about league average (.300), but his LD% was only 9%, so his expected BABIP should have only been .210. (That can't be right, can it?) He did give up an IsoD of .100, which is horrible, but I would say he far from sucked.

 

young for the level, but I think the bolded is the operative part and enough to conclude he sucked. you can parse the peripherals all you want, but when those two peripherals are so out of line with anything one would consider 'ok' I think it safe to conclude he sucked last year.

[RationalSoxFan]

I like it, but I'm biased against Garcia. He lost velocity, was owed a lot next season, and was gone after 2007, and we got a project in Floyd and a young prospect in Gio.

[BigbadB]

The White Sox are very interested in Rocco Baldelli. But, not enough to give up McCarthy for him. Maybe Floyd and Gonzalez will be part of a separate trade to get Baldelli?

[nilodnayr]

Kenny has a way with these deals. I'm sure he knows the players he got have some good potential.

 

That and the fact that Freddie is owned a ton of money(for them) and the White Sox can afford to wait on young pitching.

 

Ha! Yeah he knows them because the best player coming back was the one he traded to Phillie for Thome...who would have guessed he would get Gio back and not Rowand.

 

the Phillies? Gonzalez sucked last year as well.

 

He had big problems with homers and walks, but did strike out over a batter an inning and put up a 4.66 ERA in AA as only a 20 yr old. He let up 169 fly balls, but 24 HRs, so those extra 7 HRs over expected hurt. Plus his BABIP was about league average (.300), but his LD% was only 9%, so his expected BABIP should have only been .210. (That can't be right, can it?) He did give up an IsoD of .100, which is horrible, but I would say he far from sucked.

 

young for the level, but I think the bolded is the operative part and enough to conclude he sucked. you can parse the peripherals all you want, but when those two peripherals are so out of line with anything one would consider 'ok' I think it safe to conclude he sucked last year.

 

I agree the homers and walks are a big problem. However they are both very out of line with his previous 200 innings. There is no statistical explanation fro the walks, but the flukish HR/FB % explains the problem with homers (his HR/9 drops from 1.4 to .99). If we assume the most conservative scenario (the extra homers were all solo and didn't extend any innings to account for any additional runs), his ERA is lowered from 4.66 to 4.25. If you assume the 7 extra homers accounted for 12 extra runs, then his ERA drops below 4 and we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

[CoolHandLuke]

wow... what a weird trade..... I seriously think we could have offered better. :shock:

 

Who do you think we have that is better than Floyd and Gio?

 

Gallagher and Ryu.

[jjgman21]

Kenny has a way with these deals. I'm sure he knows the players he got have some good potential.

 

That and the fact that Freddie is owned a ton of money(for them) and the White Sox can afford to wait on young pitching.

 

Ha! Yeah he knows them because the best player coming back was the one he traded to Phillie for Thome...who would have guessed he would get Gio back and not Rowand.

 

the Phillies? Gonzalez sucked last year as well.

 

He had big problems with homers and walks, but did strike out over a batter an inning and put up a 4.66 ERA in AA as only a 20 yr old. He let up 169 fly balls, but 24 HRs, so those extra 7 HRs over expected hurt. Plus his BABIP was about league average (.300), but his LD% was only 9%, so his expected BABIP should have only been .210. (That can't be right, can it?) He did give up an IsoD of .100, which is horrible, but I would say he far from sucked.

 

young for the level, but I think the bolded is the operative part and enough to conclude he sucked. you can parse the peripherals all you want, but when those two peripherals are so out of line with anything one would consider 'ok' I think it safe to conclude he sucked last year.

 

I agree the homers and walks are a big problem. However they are both very out of line with his previous 200 innings. There is no statistical explanation fro the walks, but the flukish HR/FB % explains the problem with homers (his HR/9 drops from 1.4 to .99). If we assume the most conservative scenario (the extra homers were all solo and didn't extend any innings to account for any additional runs), his ERA is lowered from 4.66 to 4.25. If you assume the 7 extra homers accounted for 12 extra runs, then his ERA drops below 4 and we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

 

similar to our Wilkerson/Soriano discussion Nilo. are you ready to apply the same analysis to Lilly? he allowed five more homers than "expected" last year (assuming your 'expected' HR calculation is based on a 1/10 ration?). if you want to apply a method of analysis, isn't it fair to apply it across the board, for all players in similar circumstances?

 

but whatever. the Phillies/White Sox trade and the players traded mean little to me.

[jjgman21]

wow... what a weird trade..... I seriously think we could have offered better. :shock:

 

Who do you think we have that is better than Floyd and Gio?

 

Gallagher and Ryu.

 

you don't like Lilly, but you like Garcia that much? that seems incredibly irrational to me.

[RationalSoxFan]

As I stated on WSI, perhaps other teams don't value aging, declining innings eaters who are on the verge of FA. The fact that we pried away Gonzalez alone would have been surprising to me. Go look at phillies phans, some of them think the deal sucked on their side.

[CoolHandLuke]

wow... what a weird trade..... I seriously think we could have offered better. :shock:

 

Who do you think we have that is better than Floyd and Gio?

 

Gallagher and Ryu.

 

you don't like Lilly, but you like Garcia that much? that seems incredibly irrational to me.

 

I don't like Garcia very much and I wouldn't trade Gallagher and Ryu for him, but I think its a better package than Floyd and Gonzalez.

[nilodnayr]

wow... what a weird trade..... I seriously think we could have offered better. :shock:

 

Who do you think we have that is better than Floyd and Gio?

 

Gallagher and Ryu.

 

you don't like Lilly, but you like Garcia that much? that seems incredibly irrational to me.

 

I don't like Garcia very much and I wouldn't trade Gallagher and Ryu for him, but I think its a better package than Floyd and Gonzalez.

 

Thats exactly my point, you wouldn't trade an equal package of cubs prospects for him. I think they are about equal packages, but the sox usually have the notion that Cooper can right any ship, in which I would think they prefer Floyd over Ryu. IMO Gio and Gallagher are a wash. But the Sox probably value Gio more since he was in their system. In other words...I think the Sox would prefer Gio and Floyd to Gallagher and Ryu even though they are similar packages, so we would have had to give up more.

[nilodnayr]

 

similar to our Wilkerson/Soriano discussion Nilo. are you ready to apply the same analysis to Lilly? he allowed five more homers than "expected" last year (assuming your 'expected' HR calculation is based on a 1/10 ration?). if you want to apply a method of analysis, isn't it fair to apply it across the board, for all players in similar circumstances?

 

but whatever. the Phillies/White Sox trade and the players traded mean little to me.

 

Quit making me do work!!! I'll do the actual vs expected HR analysis for Lilly over in the Lilly thread.

[jjgman21]

wow... what a weird trade..... I seriously think we could have offered better. :shock:

 

Who do you think we have that is better than Floyd and Gio?

 

Gallagher and Ryu.

 

you don't like Lilly, but you like Garcia that much? that seems incredibly irrational to me.

 

I don't like Garcia very much and I wouldn't trade Gallagher and Ryu for him, but I think its a better package than Floyd and Gonzalez.

 

I got lost in the thread and missed that you were merely giving an equivalent package as opposed to agreeing with the original poster who seemed upset that we didn't get Garcia.

[Guest]

the sox will be making another trade.

[jjgman21]

 

similar to our Wilkerson/Soriano discussion Nilo. are you ready to apply the same analysis to Lilly? he allowed five more homers than "expected" last year (assuming your 'expected' HR calculation is based on a 1/10 ration?). if you want to apply a method of analysis, isn't it fair to apply it across the board, for all players in similar circumstances?

 

but whatever. the Phillies/White Sox trade and the players traded mean little to me.

 

Quit making me do work!!! I'll do the actual vs expected HR analysis for Lilly over in the Lilly thread.

 

thanks for doing that. I will look for it tomorrow.