Steve Phillips, ESPN: CHI/COL/PIT

[jmajew]

The more I think about this the more I like the deal. Jones is replacable. Jones and Marmol/Guzman for Jennings maybe not be teh best deal for the Cubs, but when we take into account who we can easily sign to replace Jones. Lofton and Cliff Floyd. Lofton would start in CF and Floyd would play against really tough RHs in place of Murton. Floyd would get about 15 starts in LF, 5 at 1b, and then 5 in RF. IT is a very acceptable transaction and would definitely make us better next year.

[nilodnayr]

I have a couple of problems with this deal.

 

1. I think we could get more for Jones. His contract, while decried by many as an albatross last year now looks like bargain basement pricing. Obviously, I don't think he will bring us Pujols, but I think it should give more than Jennings.

 

However, there are two other Jacque Jones' who are FAs (Nixon and Gonzalez). Teams don't have to give up any players for them and they will make relatively similar $.

Edited December 5, 2006 by nilodnayr

[inari]

According to the Denver Post, Jacque formally requested a trade at the end of the season. Check it out.

 

If Jacque wants out, I'm more than happy to accommodate his wishes. Ideally, I'd love to bring in Ryan Church as the center fielder after Jacque left town.

[apete6]

The fact that Jacque wants out after 1 season really makes Cub fans look like crap. Pierre didn't seem all that keen on the Cubs organization or fans either. I know it has been a while since we won anything, but I think some people really took it to the extreme with Jacque. The racist mail and booing like 2 games into the season was really classless. The guy had a hell of a lot better year than Burnitz did in 2005, yet took twice the abuse. He's a $5 million/year player and he produced like one. Not once did I ever think the guy was dogging it either. Just because he didn't put up a 2001 Sosa year doesn't mean the fans had to treat him that way.

 

Sorry about the rant, but I really hated the Jones signing from the beginning, but was satisfied with his production and think he got a raw deal from the fans...

[inari]

I'm with you 100%. I'm a bit ashamed to admit I booed him during the epic Barrett grand slam game against St. Louis. It was a stupid thing to do, but everyone was doing it. He then came out and hit a three run homer to notch his first Cubs hit.

[VanceJergins]

The fact that Jacque wants out after 1 season really makes Cub fans look like crap. Pierre didn't seem all that keen on the Cubs organization or fans either. I know it has been a while since we won anything, but I think some people really took it to the extreme with Jacque. The racist mail and booing like 2 games into the season was really classless. The guy had a hell of a lot better year than Burnitz did in 2005, yet took twice the abuse. He's a $5 million/year player and he produced like one. Not once did I ever think the guy was dogging it either. Just because he didn't put up a 2001 Sosa year doesn't mean the fans had to treat him that way.

 

Sorry about the rant, but I really hated the Jones signing from the beginning, but was satisfied with his production and think he got a raw deal from the fans...

 

I'd be willing to bet that happens everywhere, other teams just dont make a spectacle of it like Baker did.

[goonys evil twin]

I'd be more concerned with the lack of professionalism of a whiny player wanting out than the lack of class by some fans.

[Milli1306]

Didn't Jacque make a comment at some point that a big reason he signed with the Cubs was Dusty? IIRC he did, which would make him want to stay less when Dusty was let go and coupled with the treatment he received from the fans (deserved or not)

[shnsajax]

Didn't Jacque make a comment at some point that a big reason he signed with the Cubs was Dusty? IIRC he did, which would make him want to stay less when Dusty was let go and coupled with the treatment he received from the fans (deserved or not)

 

I am pretty sure Jacque made said that after Baker was fired.

[IWU_CUBS_FAN]

The fact that Jacque wants out after 1 season really makes Cub fans look like crap. Pierre didn't seem all that keen on the Cubs organization or fans either. I know it has been a while since we won anything, but I think some people really took it to the extreme with Jacque. The racist mail and booing like 2 games into the season was really classless. The guy had a hell of a lot better year than Burnitz did in 2005, yet took twice the abuse. He's a $5 million/year player and he produced like one. Not once did I ever think the guy was dogging it either. Just because he didn't put up a 2001 Sosa year doesn't mean the fans had to treat him that way.

 

Sorry about the rant, but I really hated the Jones signing from the beginning, but was satisfied with his production and think he got a raw deal from the fans...

 

I'd be willing to bet that happens everywhere, other teams just dont make a spectacle of it like Baker did.

 

 

i totally agree...baker was always brining it to the forefront...he was more worried about being booed and his boys being booed than winning games

[KingCubsFan]

The fact that Jacque wants out after 1 season really makes Cub fans look like crap. Pierre didn't seem all that keen on the Cubs organization or fans either. I know it has been a while since we won anything, but I think some people really took it to the extreme with Jacque. The racist mail and booing like 2 games into the season was really classless. The guy had a hell of a lot better year than Burnitz did in 2005, yet took twice the abuse. He's a $5 million/year player and he produced like one. Not once did I ever think the guy was dogging it either. Just because he didn't put up a 2001 Sosa year doesn't mean the fans had to treat him that way.

 

Sorry about the rant, but I really hated the Jones signing from the beginning, but was satisfied with his production and think he got a raw deal from the fans...

I'd be willing to bet that happens everywhere, other teams just dont make a spectacle of it like Baker did.

I'm sure Dusty trashed us all of the time, and pretty much turned the players against us. Jones does have a case though, he was treated pretty unfairly from the start. I don't know where Pierre has a reason for complaint though. When he was the worst hitter in the majors for the first two months of the season, he wasn't getting booed.

[VanceJergins]

The fact that Jacque wants out after 1 season really makes Cub fans look like crap. Pierre didn't seem all that keen on the Cubs organization or fans either. I know it has been a while since we won anything, but I think some people really took it to the extreme with Jacque. The racist mail and booing like 2 games into the season was really classless. The guy had a hell of a lot better year than Burnitz did in 2005, yet took twice the abuse. He's a $5 million/year player and he produced like one. Not once did I ever think the guy was dogging it either. Just because he didn't put up a 2001 Sosa year doesn't mean the fans had to treat him that way.

 

Sorry about the rant, but I really hated the Jones signing from the beginning, but was satisfied with his production and think he got a raw deal from the fans...

 

I'd be willing to bet that happens everywhere, other teams just dont make a spectacle of it like Baker did.

 

 

i totally agree...baker was always brining it to the forefront...he was more worried about being booed and his boys being booed than winning games

 

Anything to take the attention away from him sucking.

[goonys evil twin]

I'm sure Dusty trashed us all of the time, and pretty much turned the players against us. Jones does have a case though, he was treated pretty unfairly from the start. I don't know where Pierre has a reason for complaint though. When he was the worst hitter in the majors for the first two months of the season, he wasn't getting booed.

 

Jones started out complaining about the fans, had some hilariously bad early throws, made terrible baserunnings gaffes, and couldn't hit.

 

His play started out bad and at the same time he whined about fans. That's no way to get off on the right foot. It got a bit unfair later, but Jones brought much of it on himself (the booing, not the racist ignorance).

[Elrhino]

Its always strikes me funny how some who most boldly promote objective analysis seem to be the ones who hold the most irrational personal grudges (JJ, Alou).

[Cubsmodano]

I'd be more concerned with the lack of professionalism of a whiny player wanting out than the lack of class by some fans.

 

What lack of professionalism? Has this been big news? Did JJ go public and bash the team? No, he quietly went to Hendry and requested a trade. Pretty much the same as he quietly went about his business and had a good year for us last year despite the majority of the fans acting like idiots and booing him in April.

[goonys evil twin]

Its always strikes me funny how some who most boldly promote objective analysis seem to be the ones who hold the most irrational personal grudges (JJ, Alou).

 

To whom are you referring?

[goonys evil twin]

I'd be more concerned with the lack of professionalism of a whiny player wanting out than the lack of class by some fans.

 

What lack of professionalism? Has this been big news? Did JJ go public and bash the team? No, he quietly went to Hendry and requested a trade. Pretty much the same as he quietly went about his business and had a good year for us last year despite the majority of the fans acting like idiots and booing him in April.

 

The dude complained about the fans within days of his first games in Wrigley, while playing like crap. That's pretty stupid. He didn't start hitting until after the team began tanking, so by then, it was too late to win back the masses. He had a good year in the end, but he started out on the wrong foot, by his own actions, and went public with his feelings about Baker being let go. He made his own bed.

[Guest]

Its always strikes me funny how some who most boldly promote objective analysis seem to be the ones who hold the most irrational personal grudges (JJ, Alou).

 

To whom are you referring?

Well, I have admitted that my dislike for Alou goes beyond the rational and I'm a pretty big proponent of objective analysis...

 

But I don't really see too many people holding a grudge against JJ in this thread.

[Abe Frohman]

Amen, gooney.

 

Jacque Jones should have just played ball - because he did that well. If he and Pierre are going to hold a grudge against the fans for the way that we got tired of Dusty's [expletive] lineups and finger pointing at the front office not supplying him "horses," than they should expect the wrath of the fans - who coincidently pay their inflated salaries.

 

If you can't enjoy playing baseball in Chicago on the North Side, something prolly ain't right.

[b_wiggy_66]

Update from Jason Stark at the meetings:

 

• An official of one club that had talked with Colorado said there is "no way" that's going to happen. And another source said the Cubs are "not down any road on any trade with any team." An official of another club that has spoken with the Rockies about Jennings said there is just about a zero chance that Colorado will trade him before leaving the meetings. "I don't think a reasonable deal could be made on him right now," the official said. "They're certainly not in any panic to move him. They can sure afford him, so it's not like they're going to non-tender him or anything. In other words, there's no gun to their head to move him. So the price is really high."

[UK1679666180]

There will be times when they're going to face pitchers that are definitely tougher on RH'ers than LH'ers. This will happen later in games when situational pitchers come into play. There are enough starting pitchers that are so dominant vs. RH'ers that a LH'er (even a mediocre hitter) likely becomes more effective than the best RH'ed hitter on the team.

 

Matt Clement when he was with the Cubs would be an example of the type of RH'er that would dominate RH'ed hitter, he was extremely difficult to pick up the ball from as well as his slider being a 65.

 

As far as relievers, it could be similar to Clement or as extreme as a side armer. The toughest I seen on righties over the 10 years was Kim when he was out of the pne for AZ.

 

Yeah, but how many times are the Cubs going to face those kinds of pitchers? For all of those countless other times that they face a normal pitcher, isn't the added benefit of having a better hitter (over having a lesser hitter who hits left handed) going to pay off more over the course of the season? Isn't having a lefty hitter in the lineup for the sake of having a lefty in the lineup sort of like making policy decisions based on the exception rather than the rule?

 

Enough to where a team needs a quality LH'ed bat in the line-up. Having a lefty killer in the line-up is different than having a LH'ed hitter in the line-up.

[Danny82]

My point remains. If two hypothetical batters are equal across the board, then sure, I'll take the lefty in that situation. However, batter A (righty) is even a slightly better hitter than batter B (lefty), I'll take batter A and not look back.

 

I honestly don't see why a team "needs" anything other than good hitters, regardless of which side they hit from.

[UK1679666180]

My point remains. If two hypothetical batters are equal across the board, then sure, I'll take the lefty in that situation. However, batter A (righty) is even a slightly better hitter than batter B (lefty), I'll take batter A and not look back.

 

But what avail. hitters are better or equal to Jones in terms of health, salary, and production?

[VanceJergins]

Update from Jason Stark at the meetings:

 

• An official of one club that had talked with Colorado said there is "no way" that's going to happen. And another source said the Cubs are "not down any road on any trade with any team." An official of another club that has spoken with the Rockies about Jennings said there is just about a zero chance that Colorado will trade him before leaving the meetings. "I don't think a reasonable deal could be made on him right now," the official said. "They're certainly not in any panic to move him. They can sure afford him, so it's not like they're going to non-tender him or anything. In other words, there's no gun to their head to move him. So the price is really high."

 

If you dont have anything nice to say, dont say anything at all. :x

[Outshined_One]

Update from Jason Stark at the meetings:

 

• An official of one club that had talked with Colorado said there is "no way" that's going to happen. And another source said the Cubs are "not down any road on any trade with any team." An official of another club that has spoken with the Rockies about Jennings said there is just about a zero chance that Colorado will trade him before leaving the meetings. "I don't think a reasonable deal could be made on him right now," the official said. "They're certainly not in any panic to move him. They can sure afford him, so it's not like they're going to non-tender him or anything. In other words, there's no gun to their head to move him. So the price is really high."

 

In other words, this deal will happen in the next 24 hours.

 

;)