Its Bowl Season...

[CuseCubFan69]

Look at the polls gooney. Every Big East team that has the same record as one of "elites" finished behind them in the rankings except for Louisville which won a conference and still finished behind 2 2 loss teams and one didn't even win it's conference. Rutgers is the worst rated 2 loss team and is behind a 3 loss Oklahoma. In the coaches poll Louisville is 7th and 2 spots behind the 3rd place Big 10 team. Yeah, I want these guys voting on who goes. This happens every year in football for the Big East and this year they did not deserve to be voted down like this IMO.

[goonys evil twin]

p.p.s. The travel situation for fans is definitely a concern, but isn't it the same for the NCAA Basketball tourney? If your team makes the Final Four on a Sunday, can you realistically buy tickets, schedule travel and hotel, etc. to get there by the following Saturday? No. But it's still sold out every year

 

They have 20,000 seat arenas and tickets that guarantee you seats to multiple games. Bowl games are played in 60,000-115,000 seat stadiums in the middle of the holiday season.

 

I think the fact that over 1/2 of the Division 1-A schools make bowl games (some with .500 records) has done plenty to ruin the integrity of the current bowl system. A playoff can only improve it.

 

 

I think you have to differentiate between the generic bowl system, and the big time bowl system. There's quite a bit of difference between those played around Christmas and the ones played later. I agree that it doesn't mean much to "make a bowl" game, but it does mean something to play on New Years.

 

There were 32 bowl games this year, but I think there's only about 8-10 truly meaningful ones. But then again, meaningful is relative, the Texas bowl isn't much of a bowl, but it was probably the most meaningful game in Rutgers' modern history.

[goonys evil twin]

Look at the polls gooney. Every Big East team that has the same record as one of "elites" finished behind them in the rankings except for Louisville which won a conference and still finished behind 2 2 loss teams and one didn't even win it's conference. Rutgers is the worst rated 2 loss team and is behind a 3 loss Oklahoma. In the coaches poll Louisville is 7th and 2 spots behind the 3rd place Big 10 team. Yeah, I want these guys voting on who goes. This happens every year in football for the Big East and this year they did not deserve to be voted down like this IMO.

 

What do you mean voted down? The poll rankings are meaningless after the championship game, and no big east team deserved a shot at the championship game.

[TruffleShuffle]

I agree. It's going to take an 8-team playoff field to handle all problems. If an eight team field is done, then I think, while there will be some gripes, most everyone with a claim to the title will have a shot at it.

 

So long as the 8 team field is the actual Top 8 in the BCS (with no conference tie-ins) I'm all for it. But if a #21 ranked F$U gets in from the ACC, or Wisconsin gets the boot for being the 3rd Big Ten team, I wouldn't be happy.

 

This is my problem with an 8 team playoff. Just like with the BCS, there is no way all the major conferences would agree to an 8 team playoff without their conference champions getting an automatic bid. There is no way you get a playoff with the top 8 ranked BCS teams. It won't happen.

 

The BCS rankings are completely ridiculous. The conference champs should get in. Wisconsin and Michigan don't get in unless they win the Big 10. Same for LSU or Cal or whoever else. Why is that so difficult? If you can't win your conference, you can't win the national championship. Makes sense to me.

 

Why don't we make this a rule for college basketball too?

 

because there is already a tournament that works very well and everybody likes? I don't see your point at all.

 

Because a lot of the time, a team that doesn't win its conference proves to be the best team in the country during the NCAA tourney in college basketball. Don't you think the same could happen in football?

[Derwood]

Look at the polls gooney. Every Big East team that has the same record as one of "elites" finished behind them in the rankings except for Louisville which won a conference and still finished behind 2 2 loss teams and one didn't even win it's conference. Rutgers is the worst rated 2 loss team and is behind a 3 loss Oklahoma. In the coaches poll Louisville is 7th and 2 spots behind the 3rd place Big 10 team. Yeah, I want these guys voting on who goes. This happens every year in football for the Big East and this year they did not deserve to be voted down like this IMO.

 

What do you mean voted down? The poll rankings are meaningless after the championship game, and no big east team deserved a shot at the championship game.

 

I think his point is that if voting would determine (in part) the BCS standings, and those standing would inform the playoff field, he isn't comfortable with a voter base who continously shows bias towards some conferences and against others (regardless of SOS or on field results)

[CuseCubFan69]

Look at the polls gooney. Every Big East team that has the same record as one of "elites" finished behind them in the rankings except for Louisville which won a conference and still finished behind 2 2 loss teams and one didn't even win it's conference. Rutgers is the worst rated 2 loss team and is behind a 3 loss Oklahoma. In the coaches poll Louisville is 7th and 2 spots behind the 3rd place Big 10 team. Yeah, I want these guys voting on who goes. This happens every year in football for the Big East and this year they did not deserve to be voted down like this IMO.

 

What do you mean voted down? The poll rankings are meaningless after the championship game, and no big east team deserved a shot at the championship game.

 

My point is if they go to a 4 or 8 teams system if there is a Big 10 or 12 or SEC team with the same record as a BE team the Big 10/12 and SEC teams are always ranked higher thus getting an advantage. And Louisville did deserve a shot at the Championship game.

[goonys evil twin]

Look at the polls gooney. Every Big East team that has the same record as one of "elites" finished behind them in the rankings except for Louisville which won a conference and still finished behind 2 2 loss teams and one didn't even win it's conference. Rutgers is the worst rated 2 loss team and is behind a 3 loss Oklahoma. In the coaches poll Louisville is 7th and 2 spots behind the 3rd place Big 10 team. Yeah, I want these guys voting on who goes. This happens every year in football for the Big East and this year they did not deserve to be voted down like this IMO.

 

What do you mean voted down? The poll rankings are meaningless after the championship game, and no big east team deserved a shot at the championship game.

 

My point is if they go to a 4 or 8 teams system if there is a Big 10 or 12 or SEC team with the same record as a BE team the Big 10/12 and SEC teams are always ranked higher thus getting an advantage. And Louisville did deserve a shot at the Championship game.

 

They would have had that chance if they didn't lose to Rutgers. But they didn't "deserve" a shot anymore than any number of other teams.

 

 

Not all records are created equal.

[CuseCubFan69]

Look at the polls gooney. Every Big East team that has the same record as one of "elites" finished behind them in the rankings except for Louisville which won a conference and still finished behind 2 2 loss teams and one didn't even win it's conference. Rutgers is the worst rated 2 loss team and is behind a 3 loss Oklahoma. In the coaches poll Louisville is 7th and 2 spots behind the 3rd place Big 10 team. Yeah, I want these guys voting on who goes. This happens every year in football for the Big East and this year they did not deserve to be voted down like this IMO.

 

What do you mean voted down? The poll rankings are meaningless after the championship game, and no big east team deserved a shot at the championship game.

 

My point is if they go to a 4 or 8 teams system if there is a Big 10 or 12 or SEC team with the same record as a BE team the Big 10/12 and SEC teams are always ranked higher thus getting an advantage. And Louisville did deserve a shot at the Championship game.

 

They would have had that chance if they didn't lose to Rutgers. But they didn't "deserve" a shot anymore than any number of other teams.

 

 

Not all records are created equal.

 

Especially when it comes to the goodoleboys.

[Banedon]

Goony, I don't need a system "built for Boise State"...what I'd like is a system where at the beginning of the year, each football team has a chance to win a National Title. Basketball provides exactly that opportunity, and everyone still makes their money.

[goonys evil twin]

Especially when it comes to the goodoleboys.

 

As annoying as it may be, there's a reason. The goodoleboys routinely field the best football teams, with the exception of ND. If you want the system to change, you have to do more than just complain.

[TruffleShuffle]

Especially when it comes to the goodoleboys.

 

http://schinckel.blogsome.com/images/BrokenRecord.jpg

[goonys evil twin]

Goony, I don't need a system "built for Boise State"...what I'd like is a system where at the beginning of the year, each football team has a chance to win a National Title. Basketball provides exactly that opportunity, and everyone still makes their money.

 

Basketball only has that because it allows for 30+ regular season games and a ridiculously overstuffed tournament. Such a situation is not possible in football. Simply handing a spot to conference champs doesn't solve a thing, since not all conferences are created equal.

 

Furthermore, while you can pretend they all have a chance, they don't. Both sports are still dominated by the select few.

[Banedon]

Goony, I don't need a system "built for Boise State"...what I'd like is a system where at the beginning of the year, each football team has a chance to win a National Title. Basketball provides exactly that opportunity, and everyone still makes their money.

 

Basketball only has that because it allows for 30+ regular season games and a ridiculously overstuffed tournament. Such a situation is not possible in football. Simply handing a spot to conference champs doesn't solve a thing, since not all conferences are created equal.

 

Furthermore, while you can pretend they all have a chance, they don't. Both sports are still dominated by the select few.

 

Absolutely, but that's determined on the court, and not by politics and computers. George Mason got to the Final Four. They may not have won the title, but they got a crack at it. They would be your Boise State equivalent, and Boise State gets nothing but a pat on the back and a chunk of cash.

 

I don't believe that there's no way to create a system that can give all teams a chance at the National Title if they perform on the field. It won't happen often, if ever, but there should be the opportunity.

[Mark_R]

Goodoleboys has become as idiotic of a statement as "groupthink"

[cubweiser03]

I'm sick of the second best Big East team always going to the Liberty Bowl to face the second best ACC.

 

I see your point about somebody always being left out which is going to happen no matter what system they decide to pick. It's how they pick them that bothers me.

 

Be careful what you wish for. If history is any indication of future success the Big ThreEast will have a run for its money in this bowl. If FSU and Miami get off their ass and the other Big East dropout Virginia Tech field better teams it wont be such a crummy bowl anymore. You'll have you shot at Miami/FSU almost every year.

[goonys evil twin]

I don't believe that there's no way to create a system that can give all teams a chance at the National Title if they perform on the field. It won't happen often, if ever, but there should be the opportunity.

 

What's the point in giving Troy or Temple a shot? What's the benefit? The fact that basketball does it is hardly justification. The minute you start handing out invites to every conf champ, is the minute you reduce the incentive for teams to schedule tough OOC games. A tough OOC schedule not only increases your odds of losing that game, but it can hurt you the rest of the year. Nobody wants to see Florida, LSU, USC or OSU playing Central Michigan or BYU in December. And that is part of the reason why this won't work.

 

And why should it happen? Because you say so? I think people need to get away from the "should" talk, as it's going to get you no where. Come up with a system that would work (ie, satisfy all participants economic interests), and you might have something. But simply being a D1 school doesn't guarantee you a shot at the national football title. There's no inherent right to such a thing. Schools that want to contend for a title invest in their program and take the necessary steps to make it possible.

 

And before we get into the complaints about money getting in the way of what's right, stop. There aren't many successful ventures in this world, and especially in this country, that don't take economic factors into account. If we want big exciting matchups available for our viewing pleasure in various formats, you're going to have to just deal with the fact that money plays a huge role here.

[CuseCubFan69]

I'm sick of the second best Big East team always going to the Liberty Bowl to face the second best ACC.

 

I see your point about somebody always being left out which is going to happen no matter what system they decide to pick. It's how they pick them that bothers me.

 

Be careful what you wish for. If history is any indication of future success the Big ThreEast will have a run for its money in this bowl. If FSU and Miami get off their ass and the other Big East dropout Virginia Tech field better teams it wont be such a crummy bowl anymore. You'll have you shot at Miami/FSU almost every year.

 

I'm sure they will get better. It's that IMO I'd rather play some SEC, Big 10/12 or PAC 10 teams more often. The Big East plays the ACC all the time in the regular season a lot too.

[Banedon]

I don't believe that there's no way to create a system that can give all teams a chance at the National Title if they perform on the field. It won't happen often, if ever, but there should be the opportunity.

 

What's the point in giving Troy or Temple a shot? What's the benefit? The fact that basketball does it is hardly justification. The minute you start handing out invites to every conf champ, is the minute you reduce the incentive for teams to schedule tough OOC games. A tough OOC schedule not only increases your odds of losing that game, but it can hurt you the rest of the year. Nobody wants to see Florida, LSU, USC or OSU playing Central Michigan or BYU in December. And that is part of the reason why this won't work.

 

And why should it happen? Because you say so? I think people need to get away from the "should" talk, as it's going to get you no where. Come up with a system that would work (ie, satisfy all participants economic interests), and you might have something. But simply being a D1 school doesn't guarantee you a shot at the national football title. There's no inherent right to such a thing. Schools that want to contend for a title invest in their program and take the necessary steps to make it possible.

 

And before we get into the complaints about money getting in the way of what's right, stop. There aren't many successful ventures in this world, and especially in this country, that don't take economic factors into account. If we want big exciting matchups available for our viewing pleasure in various formats, you're going to have to just deal with the fact that money plays a huge role here.

 

I just generally disagree with your whole philosophy on this goony. What's the point of fielding a team that isn't allowed to compete for a Championship? What other sport does that? Forget college basketball...what other sport, professional, college, or otherwise, provides no opportunity for an undefeated team to have a shot at the championship? No other sport manages to let money get in the way of every team having an opportunity.

 

Why should it happen? Because you can't definitively tell me that Florida is the National Champion. Because this argument is taking place is the exact reason why something needs to happen to make a change.

 

I understand money plays a huge role, and that's why those conferences would have to get an automatic bid somehow into whatever tournament was decided to be implemented. But just because Boise State gets into a tournament doesn't mean you aren't going to have "big exciting matchups." I don't know about you, but the BSU-Oklahoma game was a HELL of a lot more exciting than last nights snoozer.

 

I fundamentally disagree with you here. Yes, being a D1 school should guarantee you a chance at a title. It defies the entire idea of "sport" to not have that opportunity. Why play if you can't win?

[CuseCubFan69]

I don't believe that there's no way to create a system that can give all teams a chance at the National Title if they perform on the field. It won't happen often, if ever, but there should be the opportunity.

 

What's the point in giving Troy or Temple a shot? What's the benefit? The fact that basketball does it is hardly justification. The minute you start handing out invites to every conf champ, is the minute you reduce the incentive for teams to schedule tough OOC games. A tough OOC schedule not only increases your odds of losing that game, but it can hurt you the rest of the year. Nobody wants to see Florida, LSU, USC or OSU playing Central Michigan or BYU in December. And that is part of the reason why this won't work.

 

And why should it happen? Because you say so? I think people need to get away from the "should" talk, as it's going to get you no where. Come up with a system that would work (ie, satisfy all participants economic interests), and you might have something. But simply being a D1 school doesn't guarantee you a shot at the national football title. There's no inherent right to such a thing. Schools that want to contend for a title invest in their program and take the necessary steps to make it possible.

 

And before we get into the complaints about money getting in the way of what's right, stop. There aren't many successful ventures in this world, and especially in this country, that don't take economic factors into account. If we want big exciting matchups available for our viewing pleasure in various formats, you're going to have to just deal with the fact that money plays a huge role here.

 

I just generally disagree with your whole philosophy on this goony. What's the point of fielding a team that isn't allowed to compete for a Championship? What other sport does that? Forget college basketball...what other sport, professional, college, or otherwise, provides no opportunity for an undefeated team to have a shot at the championship? No other sport manages to let money get in the way of every team having an opportunity.

 

Why should it happen? Because you can't definitively tell me that Florida is the National Champion. Because this argument is taking place is the exact reason why something needs to happen to make a change.

 

I understand money plays a huge role, and that's why those conferences would have to get an automatic bid somehow into whatever tournament was decided to be implemented. But just because Boise State gets into a tournament doesn't mean you aren't going to have "big exciting matchups." I don't know about you, but the BSU-Oklahoma game was a HELL of a lot more exciting than last nights snoozer.

 

I fundamentally disagree with you here. Yes, being a D1 school should guarantee you a chance at a title. It defies the entire idea of "sport" to not have that opportunity. Why play if you can't win?

 

So you don't like the crumbs off the ground? The BSU-OK game would have had even more excitement if it meant the winner moves on in the playoffs.

[Guest]

There is only one high and mighty poster in this thread calling others whiners and declaring them ignorant of college football without any reason. Goony's attitude is akin to saying the cubs have lost for 100 years so why bother talking about it or trying to fix the system. Your arguments are tired and not well-thought out and you dismiss everyone else who makes a point as a whiner.

 

Get over yourself. You are wrong. Boise State and Utah both won BCS games and could easily have advanced in a playoff. The playoff games will sell out and can be played on New Years Day or when the BCS games are currently played. More money will be made. You are so sure that your expertise can decide who is better - what is the source of this hubris? Did you watch every game all year and do analysis? Or is just based on personal bias and tradition?

[goonys evil twin]

Why play if you can't win?

 

Because the notion that anybody can win is a myth. It's a nice little storyline to pretend Podunk University has a shot at the title, but they don't. We can pretend anybody has a shot at the NCAA BB title, but they don't. Year in and year out only a handful of teams have a real shot, and the same group of teams win over and over. Football is just the only sport that doesn't pretend otherwise.

 

People play because they like to play the game. Try telling the thousands of players that have no shot at the title that there is no reason to play. If winning a tourny title were all that matters, then everybody would being playing DII and DIII instead. Ivy League teams play every year without any hope of any sort of postseason play. They send guys to the NFL every season as well.

 

I think a big problem here is that so many people think the only thing that matters is the national champ. Rutgers finished their season on the highest note they've ever finished this year, achieving a level of attention and respect that was unprecedented in their football history. I don't see how arguing about whether they deserved a shot for the field of 12 would have been any better.

 

College football is unique in that 32 teams walk off the field feeling like champions at the end of their season.

 

I'd like the national championship cleaned up a bit myself, but the idea that they must create a huge tournament where anybody can win makes no sense to me. College basketball holds the nation's attention for 3 weekends a year. College football has huge games for 4 months.

 

I don't understand how anybody can say the only way to run a sports league is by finishing the season with a big tournament.

[goonys evil twin]

There is only one high and mighty poster in this thread calling others whiners and declaring them ignorant of college football without any reason. Goony's attitude is akin to saying the cubs have lost for 100 years so why bother talking about it or trying to fix the system. Your arguments are tired and not well-thought out and you dismiss everyone else who makes a point as a whiner.

 

Get over yourself. You are wrong. Boise State and Utah both won BCS games and could easily have advanced in a playoff. The playoff games will sell out and can be played on New Years Day or when the BCS games are currently played. More money will be made. You are so sure that your expertise can decide who is better - what is the source of this hubris? Did you watch every game all year and do analysis? Or is just based on personal bias and tradition?

 

It's good to see you still had that level of gibberish in you, I was worrying you'd been running out.

[goonys evil twin]

The playoff games will sell out and can be played on New Years Day or when the BCS games are currently played.

 

That's one week, one of what would have to be 4 weeks under any system that accounts for more than 8 teams.

 

A 4 week system that ends as late as this one ends would have to begin a week before Christmas. That also means contending with the NFL, which has moved in hard into Saturday games and has a lot of money.

 

 

People like to spout off the virtues of giving everybody a chance, but nobody has put together a realistic plan that gets it done.

[Andy]

Because you can't definitively tell me that Florida is the National Champion.

I can. Florida won all the games it had to and absolutely destroyed what was unanimously considered the best team in the land. If you expect every college football champion to beat every other contender for the title, we'll be playing games year-round.

[Abe Frohman]

I still would LOVE to see a LSU/USC matchup.