2007 Hall of Fame Ballots: Gwynn & Ripken Inducted

[OleMissCub]

To clarify, I'm not saying Ripken shouldn't be in the Hall. I'm just saying that it's not so crazy that people think he shouldn't be a "First ballot" or "Unanimous" selection.

 

I certainly understand that. Personally, I think more of the "unanimous" talk should have gone Gwynn's way rather than Ripken's. He was the best hitter since Ted Williams. Plus it's interesting to note that Gwynn has the same career fielding percentage as Ken Griffey Jr.

[NorthsideAvenger]

Cal Ripken, Jr is a first ballot HOF, because while his numbers weren't like Ruth, Ripken had as much impact on the game as Ruth. I mean Ripken changed the way people view SS from an offensive standpoint. Without Ripken, ARod and Jeter, and Nomar may have been forced to have to come up through the system as a 3rd baseman, or a CF, or perhaps even a 1st baseman. Because of Ripken, teams took a risk on "taller SS" and it paid off. You weresn't supposed to be 6'4 and able to play SS, they way Ripken did. Ripken clearly was impact player, and he did enough offensive to warrent the selection. I think it is abit crazy to think Ripken isn't a first ball HOF.

[NewUserName]

Cal Ripken, Jr is a first ballot HOF, because while his numbers weren't like Ruth, Ripken had as much impact on the game as Ruth. I mean Ripken changed the way people view SS from an offensive standpoint. Without Ripken, ARod and Jeter, and Nomar may have been forced to have to come up through the system as a 3rd baseman, or a CF, or perhaps even a 1st baseman. Because of Ripken, teams took a risk on "taller SS" and it paid off. You weresn't supposed to be 6'4 and able to play SS, they way Ripken did. Ripken clearly was impact player, and he did enough offensive to warrent the selection. I think it is abit crazy to think Ripken isn't a first ball HOF.

 

Robin Yount.

[Wheelimus]

I think Cal was a first ballot hall of famer, and I think that Robin Yount should have been one too.

 

I'll never get the "only two can go in each year" mentality. These voters do realize they're allowed to vote for up to ten players for a reason don't they? Perhaps there needs to be a re-eduation on the system from MLB.

 

Probably just makes me mad because there are enough "only 2" voters that they kept Goose Gossage and Jim Rice out this year. Had they gone in the odds would have skyrocketed for Hawk. Now, he'll just be third place, barely missing next year. And no chance for a while after that.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Again I think Ripken belongs in the hall, I just dont think he is a first ballot HOFer and not anywhere near as great as a lot of baseball people and sportswriters would contend.

 

Seriously?

 

Career .276/.340/.447/.787, 112 OPS+ doesn't exactly scream baseball legend to me, even accounting for his position.

 

Did you know his career fielding percentage was higher than Ozzie Smith's?

 

Speaking of fielding percentages, I was just looking at Omar Vizquel's stats. If Ozzie Smith is in the hall of fame then so should Vizquel. Omar's lifetime fielding percentage is .6 higher than Ozzie's. He's already got more hits than Smith ever had, and his lifetime .BA is 14 points higher.

 

Yes, but can Omar do flips?

[fromthestretch]

Again I think Ripken belongs in the hall, I just dont think he is a first ballot HOFer and not anywhere near as great as a lot of baseball people and sportswriters would contend.

 

Seriously?

 

Career .276/.340/.447/.787, 112 OPS+ doesn't exactly scream baseball legend to me, even accounting for his position.

 

Did you know his career fielding percentage was higher than Ozzie Smith's?

 

Speaking of fielding percentages, I was just looking at Omar Vizquel's stats. If Ozzie Smith is in the hall of fame then so should Vizquel. Omar's lifetime fielding percentage is .6 higher than Ozzie's. He's already got more hits than Smith ever had, and his lifetime .BA is 14 points higher.

 

Not to take anything away from Vizquel since he is great defensively, he doesn't have quite the range that Ozzie did. And if you want to compare fielding percentages, the league average fielding percentage during Ozzie's career was .006 points lower than it has been during Vizquel's career, which oddly enough is the same as the difference in their respective fielding percentages.

[NewUserName]

Again I think Ripken belongs in the hall, I just dont think he is a first ballot HOFer and not anywhere near as great as a lot of baseball people and sportswriters would contend.

 

Seriously?

 

Career .276/.340/.447/.787, 112 OPS+ doesn't exactly scream baseball legend to me, even accounting for his position.

 

Did you know his career fielding percentage was higher than Ozzie Smith's?

 

Speaking of fielding percentages, I was just looking at Omar Vizquel's stats. If Ozzie Smith is in the hall of fame then so should Vizquel. Omar's lifetime fielding percentage is .6 higher than Ozzie's. He's already got more hits than Smith ever had, and his lifetime .BA is 14 points higher.

 

Not to take anything away from Vizquel since he is great defensively, he doesn't have quite the range that Ozzie did. And if you want to compare fielding percentages, the league average fielding percentage during Ozzie's career was .006 points lower than it has been during Vizquel's career, which oddly enough is the same as the difference in their respective fielding percentages.

 

 

Ozzie Smith was regarded as the "leader' of a good ballteam for almost a decade. To me this is again one of those things that the value cannot be measured one way or another. It is very important to HOF voters though.

 

Omar Vizquel may be one of the most underrated players of our generation. Unless he gets 3000 hits I dont see the HOF happening for him

[Productive Outs]

Again I think Ripken belongs in the hall, I just dont think he is a first ballot HOFer and not anywhere near as great as a lot of baseball people and sportswriters would contend.

 

Seriously?

 

Career .276/.340/.447/.787, 112 OPS+ doesn't exactly scream baseball legend to me, even accounting for his position.

 

here's an excerpt from a BP article that says it better than i can:

 

As for Cal Ripken Jr., welcome to flavor country. His 129.2 JAWS score places him second behind only Wagner among shortstops, and 15th overall in major league history. He's 16th based on career WARP, and an even more impressive 10th according to peak. Chew on that for a moment: we're talking about one of the 20 greatest players in baseball history, a player who's seventh-best season was worth 9.7 wins, good enough to win an MVP award in some years.

 

he also holds the second-best WARP3 ever (17.0, behind Babe Ruth's 18.0 in 1923).

[TruffleShuffle]

he also holds the second-best WARP3 ever (17.0, behind Babe Ruth's 18.0 in 1923).

 

where does one get historical WARP3? Just curious.

[Productive Outs]

he also holds the second-best WARP3 ever (17.0, behind Babe Ruth's 18.0 in 1923).

 

where does one get historical WARP3? Just curious.

 

BP DT cards

[NewUserName]

he also holds the second-best WARP3 ever (17.0, behind Babe Ruth's 18.0 in 1923).

 

where does one get historical WARP3? Just curious.

 

BP DT cards

 

 

All of these stats must put a lot of stock into the fact that he was a SS for most of his career. As for numbers that I understand there is no comparision between Ripken and Ruth or Williams or at least 50 other position players.

 

I have a ton of respect for Baseball Prospectus but in this case I think they are giving to much credence to him because he is a SS.

[Geech]

All of these stats must put a lot of stock into the fact that he was a SS for most of his career. As for numbers that I understand there is no comparision between Ripken and Ruth or Williams or at least 50 other position players.

 

I have a ton of respect for Baseball Prospectus but in this case I think they are giving to much credence to him because he is a SS.

 

I think that's a bit of a weird argument to make. It's not like someone at BP just gave Ripken an arbitrary win bonus for a being a shortstop; the replacement levels were calculated based on the actual performance of players at that time period. Ripken was just that much better than other shortstops of his era.

 

Now, if you want to make an argument against WARP3, I would focus on the fielding component. Rate is not all that great of a fielding stat, and pretty substantial amount of Ripken's value came from his fielding. Even then, Ripken's reputation as an excellent fielder would seem to corroborate BP's stat, so it's not like that totally changes the picture.