Cubs sign Soriano

[Soriano12]

I heard on the radio that it's 6\90 with 3 option years. Is this true? If so, are they player or team options? Is there a NTC?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

If there are team out options that is fantastic. I have a feeling that a team out option was the only reason an 8 year deal was authorized. I highly doubt Soriono will be a Cub for 8 years. I'm hoping for 3-4 kick ass seasons out of him though, and a World Series....as you can see, my ludes haven't worn off tonight...GO CUBS!

[Ding Dong Johnson]

most you guys wanted him for his bat not his glove. If it was for his glove which isnt that great I wouldnt be apposed to it. Soriano is not that much worse in the outfield as drew though. Plus neither of them can play CF which we needed.

 

That makes no damn sense whatsoever.

[jjgman21]

re: the first part, find me those facts. in other words, where are these posts where I showed blind faith and said Pie was the best thing since sliced bread?

 

You didn't. You're protecting him. You're putting the development of Pie ahead of the Cubs winning the division. If there's a 50% chance that JD Drew misses 40 games and we have to stall Pie, but in the 50% chance that JD Drew stays healthy, the Cubs have a good chance of making the playoffs. I am willing to sacrafice a decent prospect's development for a playoff chance with relative ease. You aren't. So yes, you're putting Pie's development before winning, and the ONLY and I stress ONLY way you can justify that is if you think Pie is the second coming of Carlos Beltran when he's more than likely the second coming of Ruben Mateo.

 

you said with authority and without any reservations that it wouldn't kill him, aka would be insignificant. why are you here? why aren't you in Vegas with clairvoyance like that? or alternatively, where do you find the time to know so much about Pie and so much about all the other ballplayers brought up too early? will you supply me with the facts to back up your claims that it won't kill him or be insignificant? or are you going to say you provide facts, and then just state your opinion on a matter and declare it as a fact?

 

show me that bringing up a prospect with 140 games in AAA for 40 games the next season significantly hurts him.

 

You can't.

 

first part - so why didn't you use Rueben Mateo in your comparison? why'd you use Juan Pierre? as you set yourself on fire with this, do you recall me saying that you would have been better served using Pagan in this analysis.

 

actually, yes, I think I am putting Pie's development first, with the knowledge, which you also have, that the best way to win the World Series is to make the playoffs many times. so yes, I would protect Pie with the hope that maybe he is a Willie McGee in his prime type player for the Cubs sometime in the future.

 

second part - the burden is on you. you are claiming the absolute.

[Wheelimus]

Wow. We signed Soriano.

 

I have this feeling that in five years, i'm going to be drinking to this contract feeling sad.

 

But right now, I think I'm going to burn one in honor of it, heh. We may not like this contract by the end of it, but it makes us a better team moving forward.

 

And it's a good idea to backload the contract if the Tribune couldn't care less because, as has been noted, they won't own this contract in five years time. You just know the next owner will be some rich guy, so don't even worry about it.

 

Get Drew now. I hope the 3/45 rumor is true. Soriano in right, Drew in center, Murton in left, Jacque as either the super-sub (25 starts in left, 25 in center, 10 or so in right) or trade bait.

 

Get pitching.

 

Sign Lugo. Trade Arthritic Piece Of Crap.

 

Wash, rinse, repeat.

[Guest]

I heard on the radio that it's 6\90 with 3 option years. Is this true? If so, are they player or team options? Is there a NTC?

 

Thanks in advance!

It simply cannot be a 6/90 deal that goes to 8/136 with the option years. That would mean the option years are at 23M apiece while the base contract is only at !5M/year.

[Roast]

He hasnt produced at all since the begining of his career, hes not a team player, and hes basically injury prone. I compeletly disagree with you guys.

 

I would like you to back this up with..you know..some kind of facts or proof or evidence.

[rjchapma]

We need pitching and we need one big bat. Just be happy about it you guys are always way to negative and never are happy about any of the signings.

[jjgman21]

I heard on the radio that it's 6\90 with 3 option years. Is this true? If so, are they player or team options? Is there a NTC?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

If there are team out options that is fantastic. I have a feeling that a team out option was the only reason an 8 year deal was authorized. I highly doubt Soriono will be a Cub for 8 years. I'm hoping for 3-4 kick ass seasons out of him though, and a World Series....as you can see, my ludes haven't worn off tonight...GO CUBS!

 

that's 9 years.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Drew isnt that good thats why and you guys highly overrate with him.

 

Based on what?

 

His near 400 OBP?

 

That's a pretty baseless and ridiculous statement.

[Lefty]

Can we still sign Drew?

 

 

Bold prediction: Soriano never puts up a .900 OPS with the Cubs

 

Not so bold. He only did it in his contract year. Maybe he's the new Adrian Beltre. Wow, same money as Beltran while we have had two years of awful CF play. Beltran will be 34 when his contract is up, Soriano 38. Hendry can't see 5 feet in front of his face. But what does he care. He'll be gone by next year.

[rjchapma]

Im sorry that I dont use OPS or other random statistics to always support my case Im sorry I have a life and am not looking them up 24/7 to rip on someone who is just stating his opinion.

[Soul]

Drew isnt that good thats why and you guys highly overrate with him.

 

You should meet my friend, Mr. Facts.

 

Hmmm, Mr. Facts shows that out of 8 seasons for Drew, 4 of them were seriously hampered due to injury and 2 others were less than 140 games.

 

That's what is known in the real universe as a player with injury problems.

[jjgman21]

I know the answer, of course we should, and I think that's what PECOTA is all about. so it comes back to my original question, what was he using to compare Soriano and Drew? did he use numbers that show these trends, or did he pluck those that best made his points. his silence on the matter is deafening.

 

ive already said it. career averages for soriano, drew and some estimation on pie.

 

I must have missed it.

 

great methodology for a sabr guy. really shows the trends with those career averages.

 

KC, would you mind using an average of the last 3 years like you did with Pie?

 

that doesn't get it done either. it doesn't account for Soriano's three year upward trend and Drew's three year downward trend.

[E.J.]

We need pitching and we need one big bat. Just be happy about it you guys are always way to negative and never are happy about any of the signings.

 

I think people just need to understand that some people aren't going to be happy about the signing. That's just human nature. Not everyone agrees on everything. I'm happy about getting Soriano, but I still want to see how the contract plays out. If it's 6, $90 with option years I'll be happy, but if it's 8, $136 I'm not so happy.

[rjchapma]

Drew isnt that good thats why and you guys highly overrate with him.

 

You should meet my friend, Mr. Facts.

 

Hmmm, Mr. Facts shows that out of 8 seasons for Drew, 4 of them were seriously hampered due to injury and 2 others were less than 140 games.

 

That's what is known in the real universe as a player with injury problems.

 

Thanks Soul

[jjgman21]

Im sorry that I dont use OPS or other random statistics to always support my case Im sorry I have a life and am not looking them up 24/7 to rip on someone who is just stating his opinion.

 

this gets nobody anywhere.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Drew isnt that good thats why and you guys highly overrate with him.

 

You should meet my friend, Mr. Facts.

 

Hmmm, Mr. Facts shows that out of 8 seasons for Drew, 4 of them were seriously hampered due to injury and 2 others were less than 140 games.

 

That's what is known in the real universe as a player with injury problems.

 

Mr. Facts also shows that Drew is good and is not overrated, which is what I was responding to.

Edited November 20, 2006 by Ding Dong Johnson

[Guest]

This is kinda fun. You guys mind waiting a few minutes while I go make some popcorn, though? ;)

[Drew Doughty]

Drew isnt that good thats why and you guys highly overrate with him.

 

You should meet my friend, Mr. Facts.

 

Hmmm, Mr. Facts shows that out of 8 seasons for Drew, 4 of them were seriously hampered due to injury and 2 others were less than 140 games.

 

That's what is known in the real universe as a player with injury problems.

 

Minus breaking his wrist last year due to being HBP -- which can't really be attributed to being injury prone, I think -- he's been fairly healthy the last three years.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Drew isnt that good thats why and you guys highly overrate with him.

 

You should meet my friend, Mr. Facts.

 

Hmmm, Mr. Facts shows that out of 8 seasons for Drew, 4 of them were seriously hampered due to injury and 2 others were less than 140 games.

 

That's what is known in the real universe as a player with injury problems.

 

He already separated the two.

 

He hasnt produced at all since the begining of his career, hes not a team player, and hes basically injury prone. I compeletly disagree with you guys.

[nilodnayr]

I think its safe to say, Hendry is not a Drew fan(for whatever reason)

I don't think you will ever see him in a Cubs uni.

 

Did the Cubs even pursue Drew a few years back?(after he left Atlanta via FA)

 

Well he reportedly met the BoSox offer. I think Hendry is more interested in Soriano for 2 reasons. One is because he views him as less of a risk. Hendry's job is on the line and if he signs Drew and he gets hurt for a substantial amount of time, he's screwed. For the record, I don't think Drew is injury prone anymore. At least not enough to make it not worth the risk. The 2nd reason is that Soriano's numbers are sexier to the casual baseball fan. The casual fan hears 40/40 and think he's god. Drew doesn't have crazy homerun or stolen base totals and therefore the average baseball fan doesn't value him as highly as someone like Soriano.

 

Those are probably good assumptions.

[rjchapma]

I agree with you Willis I said im not completely happy with the contract. On the other han I prefer Soriano over Drew

[jjgman21]

Already brought up, taking Izturis into account it takes 9 runs away from the difference, meaning that acquiring lugo would be a two run increase over acquiring sori. Don't get hung up on the minutia, the point is that upgrading from bad to Ok is going to help your team out more than upgrading from Ok to good.

 

exactly right. theyre trying to find a random detail that makes soriano better 1 run. When in fact there's the differences in the contracts and the added flexibility lugo would have given us compared to soriano.

 

oh wait i cant assume that lugos contract will be less than sorianos according to jjgman21. Silly me.

 

I give you permission. Now incorporate Izturis's salary sitting on the bench and carry on.

[Wheelimus]

Why not both?

 

Drew in center, Murton in left, Soriano in right, Jacque as super-sub and insurance if anyone gets hurt. So, you know, extra time in center. :lol:

[ChiCubsFan]

Drew isnt that good thats why and you guys highly overrate with him.

 

You should meet my friend, Mr. Facts.

 

Hmmm, Mr. Facts shows that out of 8 seasons for Drew, 4 of them were seriously hampered due to injury and 2 others were less than 140 games.

 

That's what is known in the real universe as a player with injury problems.

 

Minus breaking his wrist last year due to being HBP -- which can't really be attributed to being injury prone, I think -- he's been fairly healthy the last three years.

 

Okay, well you can't just look at the past 3 years and ignore the first 5. Especially when last year he missed time (although a fluke injury). IIRC he was also injured some in 2005. Didn't miss a ton of time but had some sort of injury.