Holy (EXPLETIVE)....Zito's Contract Demands

[baseball7897]

I don't see how you can call Zito overrated.

[Laura]

Teams lost the ability to insure pitchers past 3 years around that time as well.

 

I'm not saying IT'S IMPOSSIBLE! I'll be surprised if it happens with a pitcher even though it's a cash-rich player-poor market.

 

Also ... Beltran got Beltran money but Boras started out the demands with 10Y/$200M. There's always room for negotiation.

[Derwood]

I don't see how you can call Zito overrated.

 

perhaps there is some bleedover from Hudson and Mulder, both of whom were outstanding in Oakland and have been mediocre (and injured) once the big payday came. I think people can be skeptical, especially for that amount of $$$ and years

[goonys evil twin]

I don't see how you can call Zito overrated.

 

It's pretty simple really. He came on the scene like a superstar and won a Cy Young. He built his reputation early. Since then, he's been consistently good, but not nearly as effective. His ERA+ looks like this from 2000-2006

 

174

125

169

129

105

116

116

 

Basically he went from a very good/great pitcher, to a decent pitcher. He still racks up the innings, but he's not as effective. But his reputation remains intact from the days when he was very good/great.

[David]

Sad thing is, that is what you have to pay if you want a top of the rotation starter...even if he is overrated

 

See, the thing is, he's not a top of the rotation starter.

 

Hence the "overrated" label.

[VanceJergins]

Mr Zito stay as far away from Wrigley as you can. Go to the Mets they like overpriced and Overated talent.

 

Zito isnt great, but he's still much better than any of the 2nd tier alternatives. His career ERA is almost a full point better than the Batistas, Meches, Padillas, and Lillies. Zito and Schmidt are the only FA pitchers that would significantly upgrade our pitching staff. I think trading for Hudson might be a gamble worth taking. I'd also take a look at Igawa and look at a trade for Heilman before going for any of the 2nd Tier FA's.

[RyCubsFan]

Mr Zito stay as far away from Wrigley as you can. Go to the Mets they like overpriced and Overated talent.

 

Zito isnt great, but he's still much better than any of the 2nd tier alternatives. His career ERA is almost a full point better than the Batistas, Meches, Padillas, and Lillies. Zito and Schmidt are the only FA pitchers that would significantly upgrade our pitching staff. I think trading for Hudson might be a gamble worth taking. I'd also take a look at Igawa and look at a trade for Heilman before going for any of the 2nd Tier FA's.

 

Good post. What about some of the White Sox hurlers? I understand that the Sox really need bullpen help. What about trading Eyre and Wuertz for Vasquez, Garcia, or Buehrle?

[BigbadB]

I haven't been including Zito on any of my wish lists, for the most part. I knew he would cost too much and someone will give him that money, and I'm not convinced he'll be better than Rich Hill next year.

 

I'd go hard after Schmidt with a real short term contract for high dollars.

 

Say 2/30m with a 3rd year vesting option that could make it 3/45. I'd then attempt to defer half of the contract in 2008 and the vesting year so that this big dollar contract doesn't interfere with locking up Zambrano.

 

With the short deal, he could maybe get one more contract for 3 or 4 years after that.

[VanceJergins]

Mr Zito stay as far away from Wrigley as you can. Go to the Mets they like overpriced and Overated talent.

 

Zito isnt great, but he's still much better than any of the 2nd tier alternatives. His career ERA is almost a full point better than the Batistas, Meches, Padillas, and Lillies. Zito and Schmidt are the only FA pitchers that would significantly upgrade our pitching staff. I think trading for Hudson might be a gamble worth taking. I'd also take a look at Igawa and look at a trade for Heilman before going for any of the 2nd Tier FA's.

 

Good post. What about some of the White Sox hurlers? I understand that the Sox really need bullpen help. What about trading Eyre and Wuertz for Vasquez, Garcia, or Buehrle?

 

For how much they make, I dont know how much better they'd be than people like Lilly. I think Hudson and Heilman are safer bets.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I don't see how you can call Zito overrated.

 

He may not be over-rated, but he surely can be over priced.

[abuck1220]

man, if league average starting pitching costs you 9-10 mil a year, just pay marshall and mateo $300k each to provide somewhat below average starting pitching. take the $20 mil you were going to spend on lilly and meche and spend it on some offense.

 

i'd rather pay roughly $26 mil/year on soriano, drew, mateo and marshall than on $26 mil/year gmj, durham, meche and lilly.

[Magnetic Curses]

I'd rather bet on Prior and Woods arms lasting all year than zito peforming like a #1 starter this year. To me at that money he should gurantee me 15+ wins and an ERA below 4 niether will happen wherever he ends up.

 

that's totally and absolutely ridiculous. in a full season (which has been every season since his rookie campaign of 2000) barry zito has only failed to post 14+ wins and a sub 4 era ONCE.

 

in addition, since 2000, his abbreviated rookie year, he's never pitched fewer than 213 innings in a season.

 

all of the sudden, he moves to the national league, a league that lacks the DH, and he gets WORSE? that makes no sense whatsoever. i'd like to know where you get your facts, your gut?

[goonys evil twin]

I'd rather bet on Prior and Woods arms lasting all year than zito peforming like a #1 starter this year. To me at that money he should gurantee me 15+ wins and an ERA below 4 niether will happen wherever he ends up.

 

that's totally and absolutely ridiculous. in a full season (which has been every season since his rookie campaign of 2000) barry zito has only failed to post 14+ wins and a sub 4 era ONCE.

 

in addition, since 2000, his abbreviated rookie year, he's never pitched fewer than 213 innings in a season.

 

all of the sudden, he moves to the national league, a league that lacks the DH, and he gets WORSE? that makes no sense whatsoever. i'd like to know where you get your facts, your gut?

 

Why are you guys talking about win totals?

[Magnetic Curses]

Sad thing is, that is what you have to pay if you want a top of the rotation starter...even if he is overrated

 

See, the thing is, he's not a top of the rotation starter.

 

Hence the "overrated" label.

 

if he's not a "top of the rotation" starter, i'm not sure what is.

[Magnetic Curses]

I'd rather bet on Prior and Woods arms lasting all year than zito peforming like a #1 starter this year. To me at that money he should gurantee me 15+ wins and an ERA below 4 niether will happen wherever he ends up.

 

that's totally and absolutely ridiculous. in a full season (which has been every season since his rookie campaign of 2000) barry zito has only failed to post 14+ wins and a sub 4 era ONCE.

 

in addition, since 2000, his abbreviated rookie year, he's never pitched fewer than 213 innings in a season.

 

all of the sudden, he moves to the national league, a league that lacks the DH, and he gets WORSE? that makes no sense whatsoever. i'd like to know where you get your facts, your gut?

 

Why are you guys talking about win totals?

 

i was using the language that was being used at the time.

[goonys evil twin]

Sad thing is, that is what you have to pay if you want a top of the rotation starter...even if he is overrated

 

See, the thing is, he's not a top of the rotation starter.

 

Hence the "overrated" label.

 

if he's not a "top of the rotation" starter, i'm not sure what is.

 

Take a look at his ERA+ over his past 7 seasons. Anybody who doesn't acknowledge that he has not been, over the past three seasons, the same pitcher he was his first four seasons, is dishonest. He's good. But he's no ace.

[Magnetic Curses]

Sad thing is, that is what you have to pay if you want a top of the rotation starter...even if he is overrated

 

See, the thing is, he's not a top of the rotation starter.

 

Hence the "overrated" label.

 

if he's not a "top of the rotation" starter, i'm not sure what is.

 

Take a look at his ERA+ over his past 7 seasons. Anybody who doesn't acknowledge that he has not been, over the past three seasons, the same pitcher he was his first four seasons, is dishonest. He's good. But he's no ace.

 

we're not talking about an "ace", we're talking about a "top of the rotation" starter.

 

there are only a few actual aces out there in the national league, i think the cubs have one of them.

[Backtobanks]

Take the 25% Boras haircut and you got 11-12M. Im surprised he didnt say Mussina type $18M. Hell the yankees gave a 2 year $32M extension for an old Randy Johnson. Look at him now.

 

I'm amazed that everyone gets all excited about what these agents "leak" to the press. Agents "report" that 10-12 teams are looking at their client, #4 & #5 starters are going to average $10 million per year, and stars want $100+ million over 6-7 years. I think the only player that might warrant a 6-7 year contract is Cabrera. Certainly no pitcher should be signed for more than 4 years. The reason these agents make so much money is because they can really lay it on thick.

[RichHillIsABeast]

What's the big surprise? It was widely rumored that Zito would get 100MM on the open market all through the season.

 

I'm surprised Boras's initial demand is this low. Beltran started at 10/200M...

[goonys evil twin]

Take the 25% Boras haircut and you got 11-12M. Im surprised he didnt say Mussina type $18M. Hell the yankees gave a 2 year $32M extension for an old Randy Johnson. Look at him now.

 

I'm amazed that everyone gets all excited about what these agents "leak" to the press. Agents "report" that 10-12 teams are looking at their client, #4 & #5 starters are going to average $10 million per year, and stars want $100+ million over 6-7 years. I think the only player that might warrant a 6-7 year contract is Cabrera. Certainly no pitcher should be signed for more than 4 years. The reason these agents make so much money is because they can really lay it on thick.

 

The reason these agents make so much money is because they can really make a lot of money for their clients. They aren't paid for talk, they are paid for results.

[goonys evil twin]

Sad thing is, that is what you have to pay if you want a top of the rotation starter...even if he is overrated

 

See, the thing is, he's not a top of the rotation starter.

 

Hence the "overrated" label.

 

if he's not a "top of the rotation" starter, i'm not sure what is.

 

Take a look at his ERA+ over his past 7 seasons. Anybody who doesn't acknowledge that he has not been, over the past three seasons, the same pitcher he was his first four seasons, is dishonest. He's good. But he's no ace.

 

we're not talking about an "ace", we're talking about a "top of the rotation" starter.

 

there are only a few actual aces out there in the national league, i think the cubs have one of them.

 

You are right. He's a pretty clear cut 2.

[BigbadB]

What's the big surprise? It was widely rumored that Zito would get 100MM on the open market all through the season.

 

I'm surprised Boras's initial demand is this low. Beltran started at 10/200M...

 

Agreed. But, I think Zito will get that much from someone. Since the Dodgers lost out on an opportunity to throw big money at Ramirez, they might throw it at Zito now. They had LaRoche to put at 3b anyway. With their ability to go super cheap with guys like Ethier, Martin, Kemp, Betemit, LaRoche, Billingsley, Broxton, etc...it would be easy for them to spend big money on Zito, which is their biggest need, IMO.

[Guest]

a 7 year contract for a pitcher is insane. but I think someone will do it. everyone needs starters and some teams just have money to waste. anyone else notice that Zito led the majors in PAP this year? I know one team that won't be in the bidding.

 

I agree with ABuck - spend money on a great offense - much less risk and much less overpaying.

[RichHillIsABeast]

What's the big surprise? It was widely rumored that Zito would get 100MM on the open market all through the season.

 

I'm surprised Boras's initial demand is this low. Beltran started at 10/200M...

 

Agreed. But, I think Zito will get that much from someone. Since the Dodgers lost out on an opportunity to throw big money at Ramirez, they might throw it at Zito now. They had LaRoche to put at 3b anyway. With their ability to go super cheap with guys like Ethier, Martin, Kemp, Betemit, LaRoche, Billingsley, Broxton, etc...it would be easy for them to spend big money on Zito, which is their biggest need, IMO.

 

Yeah, I think he'll get it too. That's a lot of money to spend on a pitcher though, especially one that's not a bonafide ace. I'd hate to see what Z could bring on the FA market.

[BigbadB]

If the FA market was ripe with talent, he wouldn't get anything near that. Considering that it would take one of Schmidt, Matsuzaka, Zito, Soriano, Drew or Lee to get a marquee player in this market, and there are 30 teams vying for those few players, the bids will be much higher. Teams can probably even feel somewhat comfortable pushing the bids up with no intent to actually sign.

 

With teams showing interest in Pavano and the Yankees already shedding Bernie Williams money, Sheffield money, Jaret Wright money, etc... even they don't have to worry about being thrifty.

 

Not that they were ever thrifty to begin with.