Time to rebuild

[CubsWin]

Don't be too smug yet. If we lose out on the top 3 pitchers and someone else snags Drew and Soriano, well, we'd still be at best an average team.

No one is saying otherwise, are they?

No, but you and others are acting very condescending about this.

 

Even with Ramirez signed, it might still be best to consider rebuilding if we don't land at least a couple of the premier guys on the market.

I thought it was a bit premature to assume that Ramirez hadn't signed and wouldn't sign.

 

Yes, there was one report on FoxSports.com. But it was far from definitive and there was no word from either Kinzer or the Cubs on the subject. Without waiting until Sunday to find out if anything got done at midnight the night before, the assumption was made that not only did the Cubs not resign Ramirez before he hit the open market, but that there was no chance of him returning even after he did.

 

This is faithless, overreactionary stuff. And those that participated in it, like predicting a Cubs loss in a game thread when it turns out they won, deserve a little razzing.

 

If you think I and others are being condescending, I invite you to read some of the remarks I get when I post something positive about the Cubs that is supported by facts and that some people on this board disagree with. This is razzing, Tim, but if you think it is inappropriate, so be it.

 

Rotoworld and ESPN.com were also reporting it, that's really not an assumption. I think the reaction was based on what seemed at the time to be solid information.

 

Not signing before the deadline didn't mean he wouldn't sign. People assumed he was gone and slammed Hendry right and left.

 

That was the overreaction.

Thank you.

 

The opening post in this thread reads, "With Ramirez gone..." and he is not gone. How can that not be an overreaction and a defeatist's assumption?

 

Jeez, some fans predict terrible things will happen to the team and then these terrible things don't happen and they get razzed a bit for it. Then the razzers get admonished and called condescending. But someone dares to find something positive about the team that is supported by facts or dares to defend one of Hendry's move with facts and this guy gets more than just razzed. He gets ridiculed and personally attacked.

 

If no one else is going to talk about the elephant in the room, I will. The growing double standard on this board is troubling.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

My opinion was obvious when I posted my "worry about Z" thread.

 

The fact is I think everyone is tradeable on this team, and I have my reasons for everyone of them.

 

I would definitely trade Z, Lee, Jones, Barrett, Eyre, Howry, and whoever else for equal value if Hendry could get it.

 

Still, the Cubs would never pull anything that ballsy off, and they'd mess it up if they tried.

 

So I'll just watch the payroll jump and hope that = wins.

 

To tell you the truth, I think throwing a ton of money at a pitcher with the risks Z has is not the best way. Yes, a young ace is a gift, but Z was actually better the past two years than this year. His walks went up, his HR rate is not bad but its been going up, and he's been overworked for a long time now.

 

The fact is if you look at the situation objectively, Z is more a risk for the future than a lock. Yes, Cubs fans love him for these reasons:

 

1. He has been the only survivor of our "Big 3" from '03.

 

2. He is charismatic as hell.

 

3. He was the lone bright spot this season.

 

But the fact is this may have been Z's WORST season. He MADE himself throw too many pitches, walking almost five guys per nine. He has had tendinitis in his elbow/forearm area. He has what seem like chronic back problems.

 

Does that seem like a pitcher you would want to pay big money for?

 

My point is, I think the idea that it's a given not to trade Z while his value is at it's peak is a poor one at best. He IS an ace. He IS one of the best pitchers in the league, but he's not without significant risks. Recent big contracts to pitchers have been disatorous.

 

The Cubs need to seriously think about what they are risking if they descide to give big money to Z. You can't pay a guy for his past performance, you pay for what you think he can do in the future.

[NCCubFan]

If a player wants to test the FA market then it's reasonable to assume he going to want full market value.

Not necessarily. A player could be willing to give his current team a hometown discount but still want to find out his market value to determine what amount to base the discount on. My reaction was that I was nervous, and ready to villify Hendry IF Ramirez signed elsewhere, but not assuming that he was gone just because he filed for free agency.

[Guest]

there was definitely a lot of over-reacting on this board. its like panicking when you start the season 2-4.

[UK1679666180]

The Cubs have the ability to improve the 25 man roster and the farm at the same time.

[NCCubFan]

its like panicking when you start the season 2-4.

If we were talking about football rather than baseball a 2-4 start might justify panic. :D

[Guest]

its like panicking when you start the season 2-4.

If we were talking about football rather than baseball a 2-4 start might justify panic. :D

 

I'm sorry, I have trouble respecting anyone quoting meatloaf . . . :D

[CubsWin]

its like panicking when you start the season 2-4.

If we were talking about football rather than baseball a 2-4 start might justify panic. :D

Heck, 7-1 brought about some panic. The talk after the Bears loss to the Dolphins was that Grossman should be benched and that they were only undefeated going into that game because of a weak schedule.

 

Then they go into the Meadowlands and beat the Giants 38-20 with Grossman throwing 3 TDs and looking good doing it. He took hits. His team turned the ball over several times, but he never got rattled.

 

Now they are 8-1 and all the talk is how they are going to the Super Bowl. Wow...

 

It just goes to show that overreaction isn't a characteristic unique to just Cubs fans.

[NCCubFan]

its like panicking when you start the season 2-4.

If we were talking about football rather than baseball a 2-4 start might justify panic. :D

 

I'm sorry, I have trouble respecting anyone quoting meatloaf . . . :D

I actually attended a Cub game this past season where Meat threw out the ceremonial first pitch. I found it interesting that a well-known singer was at the game but did not lead the 7th inning stretch.

[A New Era]

Don't be too smug yet. If we lose out on the top 3 pitchers and someone else snags Drew and Soriano, well, we'd still be at best an average team.

 

as were the cards this year. it shouldnt take too much more to win the central in 2007.

 

Just land a couple really good FA or trades and we will be BETTER.

 

Is it really that much of a goal to aim to be better than a 96-loss team?

 

I meant we will be BETTER than the rest of NL Central. Sorry if you read it wrong.

[mg420]

Don't be too smug yet. If we lose out on the top 3 pitchers and someone else snags Drew and Soriano, well, we'd still be at best an average team.

 

as were the cards this year. it shouldnt take too much more to win the central in 2007.

 

Just land a couple really good FA or trades and we will be BETTER.

 

just having lee back healthy (hopefully!) for a full season will be a huge boost offensively. that gives the cubs 3 potential .900 + ops guys in the lineup.

Who is the third? Barrett's never done it. Jones hasn't come close.

 

he had an .885 last year which is why i said "potential .900". if jones were platooned he might even have a shot at it too.

[frostwyrm]

I suppose rebuilding for 2008 is a moot point because we all know Hendry won't do it, but I would. I just don't think Hendry and our rookie callups did enough in 2006 to create a likely contender in 2007. I would certainly be shopping Z right now. We could get huge value for him, and he's a FA after 2007 anyway. I'd love to trade for some top-tier young guys who could help in 2008.