Zambrano for A-Rod . . . would ya?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Furthermore, how good would the Cubs be if we traded Lee for Arod, re-signed Ramirez, and then traded prospects for Burrell, and signed Soriano.

 

CF Soriano

LF Murton

SS Arod

3b Ramirez

1b Burrell

LF Jones

C Barrett

2b Izturis

 

The Cubs if money allowed could still look to improve at second by signing Durham or Loretta.

 

The cost in prospects to get Burrell is probably minimal unless the Cubs ask the Phillies to pay some salary.

[goonys evil twin]

I can't believe how undervalued ARod is right now.

I would love, love, love ARod on this team. I just don't see why the Cubs should have to give up a guy three years younger who is about as good to get him.

ARod is significantly better than any player on the Cubs roster right now. Bar none.

 

If he's a good SS, then that is true, relative to his position. But DLee in 2005 had a higher OPS+ than ARod in 2005 and ARod in 2006. And Ramirez isn't too far off from matching ARod. He'd most likely be the best Cubs player, but I wouldn't say bar none.

 

And I'd bet Zambrano would become the best Yankee if he went there.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

I love D-Lee, but I am not convinced 2005 wasn't just a fluke anomaly. I believe his 2002-2004 numbers are more indicative of what we can expect, and those numbers are nice, don't get me wrong! But they pale in comparison to A-Rod and his production at a more difficult position.

 

Lee for A-Rod? Yep, I'd do it. That would mean in effect the Cubs would have traded Hee Seop for A-Rod. Think about that for a second.

[Backtobanks]

Let's get back to reality here. DLee isn't going anywhere and neither is Zambrano, Barrett, or ARam (if re-signed). Depending on who they would get in a trade, trade bait on the Cubs consists of any of the young pitchers, Prior, Jones, Cedeno, Murton, Dempster, Eyre, and their minor league players. Looking at that list explains why a trade for someone like ARod would need a 3rd or 4th team because there isn't enough of what the Yankees want or need to make a straight deal.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

I can't believe how undervalued ARod is right now.

I would love, love, love ARod on this team. I just don't see why the Cubs should have to give up a guy three years younger who is about as good to get him.

ARod is significantly better than any player on the Cubs roster right now. Bar none.

 

Not when it comes time in October.

 

He's unclutch, its a fact of life, and Derek Jeter couldn't even save him.

[Sammy Sofa]

I can't believe how undervalued ARod is right now.

I would love, love, love ARod on this team. I just don't see why the Cubs should have to give up a guy three years younger who is about as good to get him.

ARod is significantly better than any player on the Cubs roster right now. Bar none.

 

Not when it comes time in October.

 

He's unclutch, its a fact of life, and Derek Jeter couldn't even save him.

 

Maybe I was seeing things, but I saw a whole bunch of Yankees suddenly fall flat both this season and the last when they hit the playoffs. And didn't I read that it was only this year and the last where he put up lousy post-season numbers?

 

Besides, baseball's history is riddled with great players who suddenly turned medicore or downright awful when they hit the playoffs. That's why you build a quality team and not pin all of your hopes on a single guy. ARod could have hit career highs this post-season and the Yankees would have still lost it.

[Jazz]

I think Arod is being a little underappreciated here. When he plays SS, he is heads and tails above any other offensive SS in the league. Getting that kind of production out of a SS which is a premium offensive position could be the difference between a mediocre offense and a great one.

 

On the issue of Zambrano not being one of the top 10 pitchers in the game, I completely disagree. In fact, I can only name two pitchers I'd rather have at this point in their careers, Johan Santana, and Fransisco Liriano. It's unholy that those two should be on the same team.

[Sammy Sofa]

I think Arod is being a little underappreciated here. When he plays SS, he is heads and tails above any other offensive SS in the league. Getting that kind of production out of a SS which is a premium offensive position could be the difference between a mediocre offense and a great one.

 

On the issue of Zambrano not being one of the top 10 pitchers in the game, I completely disagree. In fact, I can only name two pitchers I'd rather have at this point in their careers, Johan Santana, and Fransisco Liriano. It's unholy that those two should be on the same team.

 

I think a lot of people thought the same thing when we had Wood and Prior (with Z waiting in the wings).

 

*Sad face*

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

I was sarcastic about ARod, read my thoghts on ARod/Jeter on mlbcenter or I think this site. I am far from an ARod hater.

 

And I can name a few pitchers Z is not better than. I am on the Z-could-net- us-alot-and-we-should-try-to-get-it bandwagon. He is far from perfect, with his control, workload, and back problems being major red flags going foward in his 26-32 years.

 

Also agree on ARod being underrated here. The guy was/is one of the top 2 players in baseball (depending on how much you like Pujols). As a SS there is no one better in the game. Period.

Edited October 22, 2006 by KingKongvs.Godzilla

[Backtobanks]

Furthermore, how good would the Cubs be if we traded Lee for Arod, re-signed Ramirez, and then traded prospects for Burrell, and signed Soriano.

 

CF Soriano

LF Murton

SS Arod

3b Ramirez

1b Burrell

LF Jones

C Barrett

2b Izturis

 

The Cubs if money allowed could still look to improve at second by signing Durham or Loretta.

 

Unless we're going with Zambrano and 4 rookies as starters, I think you ran out of money about 2 transactions ago.

The cost in prospects to get Burrell is probably minimal unless the Cubs ask the Phillies to pay some salary.

[mhuber92211]

I don't understand the logic. Zambrano will not win you as many games as Aron would in any year based soley on the number of games they each play. I can't understand how someone would not want one of the best players in this generation all because he is turning 32! But at the same time Lee is roughly the same age and seemingly Lee is better to have then Arod.

 

Even with the pitching trouble that the Cubs had this year the general consensus was that the offense was the problem and that if we had a better balanced (Higher OBP) lineup then the Cubs would have been markedly better. But when push comes to shove and the way to get better is to trade zambrano then the cost is too high.

 

You have to give up something to get something and right now, Z is likely the biggest and best trading chip we have. Here is a feasible scenario. Z signs a 1 year deal and is a free agent next offseason. By the deadline, the Cubs are out of the race again and all the signs are that Z won't resign. The Cubs send him to the Red Sox for a package of prospects. Which would you rather have? Arod or trade deadline prospects?

[Bluescale]

ARod is significantly better than any player on the Cubs roster right now. Bar none.

 

Tim,

 

I have a great amount of respect for you analysis of the game, and I almost never disagree with you. That said, it frustrates me when you make a proclamation like this, yet don't bother to post any supporting evidence. It's not that I don't believe you, but it's obvious a number of people here feel otherwise.

 

So let me ask you this: why is it that you feel ARod is significantly better than Zambrano, Ramirez or Lee? More importantly, do you think he'll remain significantly better over the course of 3 years, assuming the Cubs are able to hold on to all three of them for three years?

[don_kessinger_was_good]

As good as Zambrano is, and as much as we all love the big guy, the brutal fact is that the Cubs with A-Rod would be a better team than the Cubs with Z. A great pitcher helps you win 20-25 games a year, while a decent pitcher helps you win 12-15. A-Rod, OTOH, is in that lineup everyday, at a position where he'd be head and shoulders above any other team's player (SS), and frankly, given his fragile psyche, I think he'd be a MONSTER in Chicago with all the love he'd get thrown his way.

 

A-Rod should give Nomar a call and ask him what it's like to be a Cub.

 

Rodriguez was second fiddle to Junior in Seattle, second fiddle to Jeter in NY, he's a 1st ballot HOF-er and needs his own team.

 

Back to Z--his value will never be higher. I'm concerned about the cumulative effect of his workload. And he's about to make ginormous bucks. Z straight-up for A-Rod, I think I'd do it, if we have Aramis re-signed and in the can.

[Guest]

ARod is significantly better than any player on the Cubs roster right now. Bar none.

 

Tim,

 

I have a great amount of respect for you analysis of the game, and I almost never disagree with you. That said, i386/.5t frustrates me when you make a proclamation like this, yet don't bother to post any supporting evidence. It's not that I don't believe you, but it's obvious a number of people here feel otherwise.

 

So let me ask you this: why is it that you feel ARod is significantly better than Zambrano, Ramirez or Lee? More importantly, do you think he'll remain significantly better over the course of 3 years, assuming the Cubs are able to hold on to all three of them for three years?

When playing SS (and I believe he still can), ARod is either the best or second best player at that position in the history of baseball. He's not at his peak any longer, but he's still the best SS in the game by far.

 

No current Cub at any position can make either of those claims.

 

The numbers ARod puts up year in and year out are simply outrageous. He's averaged a line of .305/.386/.573/959 across his entire career. He's a proficient basestealer. He is a (deserved) two-time MVP and has (deservedly) finished in the top 3 five times.

 

Nobody on the Cubs roster can even come within shouting distance of any of these accomplishments.

[Bluescale]

When playing SS (and I believe he still can), ARod is either the best or second best player at that position in the history of baseball. He's not at his peak any longer, but he's still the best SS in the game by far.

 

If the Cubs trade for ARod, I have a feeling it will be to replace Ramirez at 3B. I understand that changes the argument, but ff that's the case does he still fit the bill? I'd say no.

[Mephistopheles]

When playing SS (and I believe he still can), ARod is either the best or second best player at that position in the history of baseball. He's not at his peak any longer, but he's still the best SS in the game by far.

I am not so sure he can make the switch back rather easily. He's gained about 20-30 pounds since switching to third so I would be a bit worried about his mobility as a shortstop. Sure, he's a great player if he's there is a chance he could have a Soriano impact defensively unless he trimmed up rather quickly.

[Wheelimus]

He has quite a long time to drop a little bit of weight if he needs to.

 

Oh, and no way to Z for A-Rod. I'd rather dump prospects for someone to take his place in that deal...

[Sammy Sofa]

I'm starting to drift towards trading Z for ARod...the argument that ARod would theoretical help win you more games due to playing time is something I can't get around, and Z's growing list of "minor" health issues don't bode well down the line. If I made that deal I'd ask the Yankees to pick up part of Arod's tab and toss in Pavano for free. With ARod hitting for you you go balls-out going after FA pitching, take no prisoners.

[LuckyPup]

The only problem with trading Z is you cant get value for him- i think the possibility of resigning him is getting slimmer by the passing day- judging from his comments in the papers he expects the Cubs to open the check book HUGE-which i wouldn t blame them if they did- but there are a couple of scenarios that would be hard to refuse, especially if Hendry gets the feeling Z won't resign-

(in this scenario Aram is resigned)

 

Would you accept any of these deals?

 

Zambrano+Jones+Dempster+Novoa to the Dodgers for Drew+Lowe+Billingsly+Broxton?

 

Zambrano+Izturis+Dempster+Moore to Orioles for Tejada+Mora+Bedard?

 

Zambrano+Murton+Marshall+Dopirak+Pie for Willis+Cabrera?

[nilodnayr]

I don't understand the logic. Zambrano will not win you as many games as Aron would in any year based soley on the number of games they each play. I can't understand how someone would not want one of the best players in this generation all because he is turning 32! But at the same time Lee is roughly the same age and seemingly Lee is better to have then Arod.

 

Even with the pitching trouble that the Cubs had this year the general consensus was that the offense was the problem and that if we had a better balanced (Higher OBP) lineup then the Cubs would have been markedly better. But when push comes to shove and the way to get better is to trade zambrano then the cost is too high.

 

You have to give up something to get something and right now, Z is likely the biggest and best trading chip we have. Here is a feasible scenario. Z signs a 1 year deal and is a free agent next offseason. By the deadline, the Cubs are out of the race again and all the signs are that Z won't resign. The Cubs send him to the Red Sox for a package of prospects. Which would you rather have? Arod or trade deadline prospects?

 

I would argue that even though a position players play in more number of games, they have less influence on the outcome of those games as a starting pitcher which in total calculates out to a middle of the order hitter equaling the value of a starting pitcher.

[LeftCoastCubFan]

To me the biggest question is what Z will sign for.

 

If you look at comparable signings the last year you have Burnett’s 5/55, Halladay’s extension (they added 3 years at 40 to the two years remaining 25.5) which I’ll equate to 5/65.5, and Oswalt’s 5/73 extension. Zito is likely to command something in the 5/75 range. If you include the posting fee, Matsusaka is going to cost someone at least 4/60.

 

So at minimum, Z is looking to get Oswalt/Zito money. But being 3 to 4 years younger and a better health history; I can see him holding out for and getting a 6th year guaranteed. That’s a contract I can’t see the Cubs committing to.

 

Z will likely wait to see how the market shakes out, and then talk extension in spring. But what is the likelihood of him signing? I think it’s very low.

 

On the assumption he won’t be here in 2008, this is the time to move him. Unfortunately the Cubs are attempting to win in 2007, rather then add pieces for a run in 2008.

[mhuber92211]

The only problem with trading Z is you cant get value for him- i think the possibility of resigning him is getting slimmer by the passing day- judging from his comments in the papers he expects the Cubs to open the check book HUGE-which i wouldn t blame them if they did- but there are a couple of scenarios that would be hard to refuse, especially if Hendry gets the feeling Z won't resign-

(in this scenario Aram is resigned)

 

Would you accept any of these deals?

 

Zambrano+Jones+Dempster+Novoa to the Dodgers for Drew+Lowe+Billingsly+Broxton?

 

Zambrano+Izturis+Dempster+Moore to Orioles for Tejada+Mora+Bedard?

 

Zambrano+Murton+Marshall+Dopirak+Pie for Willis+Cabrera?

 

I would do any of these deal except for the last one. You are giving up WAY too much for those 2 players.take away Pie or Marshall and its an acceptable deal

[goonys evil twin]

ARod is significantly better than any player on the Cubs roster right now. Bar none.

 

Tim,

 

I have a great amount of respect for you analysis of the game, and I almost never disagree with you. That said, i386/.5t frustrates me when you make a proclamation like this, yet don't bother to post any supporting evidence. It's not that I don't believe you, but it's obvious a number of people here feel otherwise.

 

So let me ask you this: why is it that you feel ARod is significantly better than Zambrano, Ramirez or Lee? More importantly, do you think he'll remain significantly better over the course of 3 years, assuming the Cubs are able to hold on to all three of them for three years?

When playing SS (and I believe he still can), ARod is either the best or second best player at that position in the history of baseball. He's not at his peak any longer, but he's still the best SS in the game by far.

 

No current Cub at any position can make either of those claims.

 

The numbers ARod puts up year in and year out are simply outrageous. He's averaged a line of .305/.386/.573/959 across his entire career. He's a proficient basestealer. He is a (deserved) two-time MVP and has (deservedly) finished in the top 3 five times.

 

Nobody on the Cubs roster can even come within shouting distance of any of these accomplishments.

 

Past accomplishments? No. Nobody on the Cubs has been as consistently great as Rodriguez. But Lee certainly has a chance to repeat what he did in 2005, which would be as good as what Rodriguez could do. And Ramirez still has a good chance for improvement at his age. And at his age, it is not hard to imagine Zambrano putting up 3-4 years as the best, or at least top 5 pitcher in baseball, which would easily match what Rodriguez is capable of doing over the next 4 years.

[frostwyrm]

Z is great, but he's going to cost a fortune after 2007. So will ARod, so it comes to a question of which superstar gives you better bang for the buck. I'll take ARod, assuming the Yanks eat about $10M per year of his $27M annual salary. If he can still play SS I'd be willing to pay more.

[Guest]

Z is great, but he's going to cost a fortune after 2007. So will ARod, so it comes to a question of which superstar gives you better bang for the buck. I'll take ARod, assuming the Yanks eat about $10M per year of his $27M annual salary. If he can still play SS I'd be willing to pay more.

Texas is already eating $10M of his annual salary.